Rob Gage

[Midge]

@Jumperwannabe

Saying you suffered sexual abuse used to mean something. Now it is so watered down. I don’t understand why this person came forward 38 years later unless they were traumatized and have carried it with them. It sounded like it was mutual.

So you’ve seen the report?

[caffeinated]

@Jumperwannabe

You want to know what really has me enraged about this case and to a minor extent, the metoo movement, was I was sexually abused by a family member from age 7-14. And my mother brushed it under the rug when I finally told her when I was in my 40’s because the perp was her brother. I am angry to this day but when I read a 17 year old having a consensual relationship with an older man and now, 38 years later, is coming out saying something, they are NOT the same level of victim. These recent allegations by many women claiming “metoo” because someone brushed up against them 27 years ago has totally diluted those who really suffered abuse. I would not ever say anything now because it looks like I’m just jumping on the bandwagon. Saying you suffered sexual abuse used to mean something. Now it is so watered down. I don’t understand why this person came forward 38 years later unless they were traumatized and have carried it with them. It sounded like it was mutual. TO ME, it is not the same as what what some of us carry. Stop diluting real sexual abuse with what I feel is watered down stuff.

I’m sorry this sounds rambling. I am not a crazy person. It just feels like some of this is getting out of hand and it makes me angry that this person gets lumped into my experiences. It is NOT the same.

And this is the first time I have ever verbalized this and it felt good. I wrote it out as I felt it without regard to how it sounded and it was surprisingly cathartic.

These feelings are perfectly valid and understandable.

I’ll just say that we do not know all the things in the investigation. People have been saying it’s about an old incident that was consensual - it may be, but it also may not be, and from SS it seems there were multiple reports involved. And just because people were interviewed or asked about that old case does mean there wasn’t more to it. Investigators generally do not share everything they know or suspect with every witness. I think it’s dangerous to assume all those comments are the whole story.

I do hope they don’t make the mistake they made with the figure skater, and stop the investigation because it “doesn’t matter anymore,” and I hope they offer some kind of report at the end. Because this thing needs closure, for his friends and family, for the claimants, and for the sport as well.

[keepthelegend]

From the USA Today article:

SafeSport spokesman Dan Hill told USA TODAY Sports on Friday that investigators found Gage was guilty of sexual misconduct with “a number of minors.” He added that Gage had the opportunity to refute the allegations and provide evidence during the investigation, and that he could have appealed SafeSport’s ban before an independent arbitrator.

“Permanent ineligibility is the harshest sanction the Center can impose and is reserved for the most egregious offenses,” Hill said. "The sanction issued here was implemented following an exhaustive investigation.

The last two sentences are disheartening and eye opening. I see the outrage on FB, I have tried to be very open minded, but I think there was something there. I understand statute of limitations, but it appears they did have significant evidence. A lot of my Safesport questions have been answered. I don’t think they wildly point fingers anymore. SS did not cause RG suicide, but his own actions did lead to the loss of his career, income, reputation, guilt and he probably had depression that was underlying. Which is still tragic. Society is very open to reform and forgiveness.

[HLMom]

@Denali6298

That is not remotely what she meant. She is looking at this through her own eyes. As a good parent she would yank her kid from that trainer. She is assuming everyone would have the same reaction.

We all know that is not true. We also know her insistence about being able to be apart of a club equates to constitutional rights is also not true.

Also not anything I have ever said. It’s sad to see this thread deteriorate into people creating straw men and caricatures of each other’s arguments.

If you care for an accurate explanation: Due process is about just that–process. It applies across a broad spectrum of penalties, such as jail, civil judgments etc. My argument is that there should be some level of due process before a person’s livelihood is compromised in the manner that Safesport is empowered to do. No one is saying that attending horse shows is, itself, a constitutional right.

It seems that intelligent people should be able to discuss what the appropriate process should be before the sanctions are imposed–without accusing each other of being supporters of child molestation!! Very depressing to see arguments stoop to this level.

[Peggy]

@Virginia Horse Mom

I’m going to try replying to you again… my last reply was unapproved. Which is sort of odd, because it was pretty polite.

So the abbreviated version is that I think you really twisted my original comment, and stretched it to allege that I claimed that any male rider who had ever crossed paths with JW should’ve investigated.

I did not say that. I don’t believe that.

But you are correct in that I referred in a general sense to young male riders who came up the ranks I. JWs program, and later went on to have professional careers of their own. RG was one of a few. And I wondered if JW was an influence on them.

If you want me to somehow further “own” that portion of my comment… ok. I will admit to remembering a pretty darn disturbing quote that appeared in the published NYT story on JW. Another male student from years ago admitted to witnessing JW kissing and groping women and girls. And claimed to not understand that the behavior was unconsensual. The same person also was upset about these stories coming out many years later, still regarded JW as an amazing horseman, and didn’t come across as any sort of advocate or ally for people who claim to be child victims of an adult male predator.

I was one of many people who were disturbed by those comments. And I will admit, those comments coupled with the allegations that Safe Sport supposedly investigated and determined were valid have me wondering just how destructive JW was in terms of his influence on his underage male students. I am not saying on any level that they are all guilty of anything… I have no idea. But I think it’s fair to say JW was a destructive influence.

RG is tragically gone. If he affected from a young age by a horrible example that an adult male coach set for him in terms of how grown men in this industry can behave with female students… that’s a really sad thing. And a compelling reason to actually speak honestly about people in the sport who are BNTs, and have been lionized for ages… but who also are widely suspected to have committed transgressions.

Digging into the past is really messy and sad. Hopefully people will have less of these issues to confront in future generations, because people in the present decided to STOP sweeping ugly things under the rug.

The person referred to in that article was Hap Hansen. Note that I am not saying that you, or anyone, thought it was Rob Gage. Just attempting (and probably failing) to provide information.

[Denali6298]

@HLMom

Also not anything I have ever said. It’s sad to see this thread deteriorate into people creating straw men and caricatures of each other’s arguments.

If you care for an accurate explanation: Due process is about just that–process. It applies across a broad spectrum of penalties, such as jail, civil judgments etc. My argument is that there should be some level of due process before a person’s livelihood is compromised in the manner that Safesport is empowered to do. No one is saying that attending horse shows is, itself, a constitutional right.

It seems that intelligent people should be able to discuss what the appropriate process should be before the sanctions are imposed–without accusing each other of being supporters of child molestation!! Very depressing to see arguments stoop to this level.

And I am telling you no one has a right to a membership. Jesus you evade the point of my posts like a champ and refuse to see the industry and life for what it is. Your refusal to acknowledge PV leads me to believe it’s only because it doesn’t fit your narrative. You maybe a lawyer, but do not try to spin the conversation with me.

Please do not insult my intelligence by explaining due process. I’m not the one ignoring evidence and not understanding. You are. We are NOT in a court room.

I get your argument but I disagree. Disagreement has nothing to do with understanding. Again membership to a club HAS NO BEARING on one’s constitutional rights.

[Denali6298]

@Peggy

The person referred to in that article was Hap Hansen. Note that I am not saying that you, or anyone, thought it was Rob Gage. Just attempting (and probably failing) to provide information.

If people remotely think you are referring to Rob Gage in that post they need to stop commenting on this thread. I’m all for people having opinions but not when they show an incredible ignorance with regards to the industry and a refusal to learn about the dark side.

Can you tell it’s a slow night at work?

[ynl063w]

@Virginia Horse Mom

I’m going to try replying to you again… my last reply was unapproved. Which is sort of odd, because it was pretty polite.

So the abbreviated version is that I think you really twisted my original comment, and stretched it to allege that I claimed that any male rider who had ever crossed paths with JW should be investigated by SS.

I did not twist anything in your original post; I quoted it twice and explained, using YOUR WORDS, why I came to the conclusions that I did after reading them. If you did not represent your opinion accurately with your own words, that is on you, not me.

Words matter, and if someone who is not capable of using words in the way that he intends still insists on posting those words publicly, he cannot blame the readers for understanding those words in the way they are written, even if that is not the way the writer intended them to be understood because of his ignorance of the English language.

In other words, if you can’t accurately convey your opinion with words, don’t post your supposed opinion on the internet, or be prepared to get called out on your ignorance.

[Bobby7]

Is there anywhere you can read the actual case? Maybe if people knew the real details it would help explain the situation. I do think if it’s true that this was from 30 years ago that is ridiculous. There needs to be a time restraint put on accusations for safe support .

[ynl063w]

@Bobby7

Is there anywhere you can read the actual case? Maybe if people knew the real details it would help explain the situation. I do think if it’s true that this was from 30 years ago that is ridiculous. There needs to be a time restraint put on accusations for safe support .

Does that mean you are against catholic priests being held accountable for all the sexual abuse they committed decades ago? Just forget it and let them keep on keeping on? What if it comes to light that someone did exactly what Larry Nasser did, but it happened a couple decades ago? That’s ok because it was a while ago? Where is the cutoff? Why do you get to decide that?

What if that person is still abusing minors today and those current minors see that the powers that be let previous molestations slide because they were 30 years ago and were therefore deemed “ridiculous”? How is that doing anything but making those minors today feel that they have to keep quiet because nobody is going to take them seriously or do anything about it?

Do everyone a favor and stop being a huge part of the problem.

[Midge]

@HLMom

It seems that intelligent people should be able to discuss what the appropriate process should be before the sanctions are imposed–without accusing each other of being supporters of child molestation!! Very depressing to see arguments stoop to this level.

There is a process. It is explained on the Safe Sport website.

[Denali6298]

@ynl063w

Does that mean you are against catholic priests being held accountable for all the sexual abuse they committed decades ago? Just forget it and let them keep on keeping on? What if it comes to light that someone did exactly what Larry Nasser did, but it happened a couple decades ago? That’s ok because it was a while ago? Where is the cutoff? Why do you get to decide that?

What if that person is still abusing minors today and those current minors see that the powers that be let previous molestations slide because they were 30 years ago and therefore “ridiculous”? How is that doing anything but making those minors today feel that they have to keep quiet because nobody is going to do anything?

Do everyone a favor and stop being a huge part of the problem.

What I love about 90% of the people crowing for transparency because “we don’t really know” are the same people condemning the complainants. How the hell does that work?

[Denali6298]

@Bobby7

Is there anywhere you can read the actual case? Maybe if people knew the real details it would help explain the situation. I do think if it’s true that this was from 30 years ago that is ridiculous. There needs to be a time restraint put on accusations for safe support .

Go away.

[ynl063w]

The total ignorance represented on this thread with regards to sexual abuse, the SafeSport process, and the laws of our country are a huge wake up call to me as to how our current political climate came to be. WOW.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@HLMom - I’m with you. I am a bit baffled by the people doing the straw men thing and picking fights on this thread.

Yes… I’m aware Hap Hansen made the comments last year in the NYT article. Not confused. I just wanted to be extra careful in my comment, so a certain poster who seems intent on arguing with me didn’t jump right up and claim I was saying Safesport should investigate HH.

@ynl063w as for you calling me “ignorant” and inarticulate… have at it. I tried being polite with you, and made an attempt to be gracious and clarify my earlier comment that you jumped on. But you obviously are not interested in civil discussion, and not capable of a gracious back and forth.

[Denali6298]

@ynl063w

The total ignorance represented on this thread with regards to sexual abuse, the SafeSport process, and the laws of our country are a huge wake up call to me as to how our current political climate came to be. WOW.

Right? And some of them are lawyers. :eek:

@Virginia Horse Mom who is putting up a straw man argument?

[Denali6298]

@Midge

There is a process. It is explained on the Safe Sport website.

Will you stop asking people to educate themselves before posting? No one likes reading. :lol:

The above was typed in sarcasm font.

[Denali6298]

@Denali6298

Will you stop asking people to educate themselves before posting? No one likes reading. :lol:

The above was typed in sarcasm font.

[ynl063w]

@Virginia Horse Mom

@HLMom - I’m with you. I am a bit baffled by the people doing the straw men thing and picking fights on this thread.

Yes… I’m aware Hap Hansen made the comments last year in the NYT article. Not confused. I just wanted to be extra careful in my comment, so a certain poster who seems intent on arguing with me didn’t jump right up and claim I was saying Safesport should investigate HH.

@ynl063w as for you calling me “ignorant” and inarticulate… have at it. I tried being polite with you, and made an attempt to be gracious and clarify my earlier comment that you jumped on. But you obviously are not interested in civil discussion, and not capable of a gracious back and forth.

I’m sorry that my words hurt you to the point where you are not able to comprehend them or respond to them, and it’s a shame that you were raised in an environment where “civil discussion” = no one can ever disagree with you in any way, shape, or form. This is how you are trained to respond these days to someone who challenges you; don’t respond to the direct topic, just put down the messenger and pretend that you tried to respond in a hugely polite way that was met with disdain (LOL). You are certainly not alone in this practice at these times, so I’m sure you will be just fine.

i apologize for scaring you with my words that make sense.

[fair_judy]

This is a difficult thing for me. Reading all
of the “ Why didn’t the (victims) come forward previously?” are a knife to the gut. Most of you may remember my posts regarding my assault as a young teen by a particularly nasty individual. My personal experience in a mandated report with Safe Sport was one which gave a high level of confidence in the former LEO and FBI who were interviewing me. Do things need to be tweaked? Yes certainly as in every start up if such a massive undertaking. I can sure as hell tell you that in my case Decades of misdiagnosis could have been attenuated.