There are a lot of legal misunderstandings on this thread. A potential claim against SafeSport requiring reasonable treatment isn’t a constitutional claim, it is a Sherman Act claim. But it is way, way morecomplicated than others suggest. NGB members do have rights to reasonable treatment. It is all laid out here: https://scholarship.law.marquette.ed…text=sportslaw
Some states also have a fair procedure doctrine for private associations, including California.
SafeSport may well qualify as providing reasonable treatment. We won’t know until someone pushes a case all the way through. It will be years.
Well it certainly is educational to see what some people think. I’ve lost respect for some people over the past week. And continue to be baffled by how incredibly out of touch many in this industry are.
Is civics required in the high school curriculum? If not, it should be. It’s a full time job trying to get otherwise intelligent people to understand the difference between GOVERNMENTAL action and private action.
So what you’re saying is that any behavior is OK as long as it isn’t “bad” enough to get someone arrested and found guilty in a court of law?
That is so very wrong. There are many inappropriate behaviors, behaviors that have no place in any children’s sports program, that aren’t illegal.
And as far as “they are not lawyers or police,” have you bothered to look at the SafeSport web site to see exactly who they are? Take a look at the board of directors. Here are the requirements for a SafeSport Investigator, taken from a job vacancy announcement:
MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS
Bachelor’s degree
Two years of professional experience conducting investigations into cases of sexual misconduct
PREFERRED QUALIFICATIONS
Juris Doctorate degree or Master’s degree
Experience working with athletes
Knowledge of complexities surrounding investigations in a sport setting
If you look at the employees of SafeSport, you will find quite a few attorneys and former law enforcement officers.
Friends mourning RG is totally understandable, as is reminiscing about him. Venting some anger in the direction of SS even makes some sense. I rode in the Palos Verdes area from 1982 to about 2000 and consequently know a lot of people who knew and revered RG and have been seeing their posts.
Confusing SS and USEF and directing anger at the latter makes zero sense, especially after the last few days when it has been explained over and over. A certain attorney that is no friend of USEF (not sure if it’s permitted to use her name here) has even come out and said that anyone’s issues should be with SS and not USEF. Source - Facebook via a public post yesterday at 10:44 am.
Victim shaming and persistently getting verifiable things wrong (such as how old RG was in a certain year) are not right.
One of the people on the SS banned list responded to a thread on FB (the one that forwarded the post mentioned in the previous paragraph) and people were telling him he did nothing wrong, etc.
I have had friends I’ve known for more than 40 years who have said things which, as far as I am concerned, are the end of our friendship. Maybe people think they are having private conversations and venting. Um, no, social media is public. If you are going to post it, be prepared to stand by it…
The inaccuracies are bad enough. However, the vitriol aimed at the VICTIMS and it is victims with an “s”. Not just 1 or 2 and not just a girl 2 years younger is beyond despicable
I’m old enough to recall when the then AHSA’s drug lab developed a test for reserpine and caught a significant number of BNT’s. They reacted in much the same way–“It’s not fair! We didn’t know you could catch us! We’re going to quit and form our own association!”
Agreed. When I posted that I thought that I should have put those two things in separate sentences. The main reason I included both was to note that the victim shaming was coming from people who couldn’t even get basic facts right and thus are unlikely to be reliable sources of information
I realize it’s victims and that the age gap Is 10-15 years or more.
Then there’s the vitriol towards a person that, as far as I know, wasn’t one of RG’s victims, but some are saying was one of the claimants. One person even stated that it was karma that her horse just died. This from a person I had always considered analytical and thoughtful.
My FB friends list is a bit shorter than it was a week ago.
I agree, and I would like to see how many of those signing the petition will actually follow through and not renew their USEF membership. Are they honestly planning to not renew, or is this just an emotional knee jerk reaction.
Do we really believe the SafeSport process would be accepted if the accuser/victim’s names and details were public? I think those running scared do not want this. It is easier to say, oh one person, years ago than them having to share the details of the sexual abuse and admit multiple children. I read comments about 17 year olds and their trainers, that is wrong but many accept it. Would they be so accepting if they found out it was five, ten, twenty or more sexual encounters with 15 year olds? What about preteen students? Would they still support their friend, or think twice knowing the details?
We know the answer to that. People find what Jimmy Williams did disgusting but others think it happemed so long it shouldn’t matter. What people need to see if that someone can still be a fantastic rider or trainer and also be an abuser. Tiger Woods is an incredible golfer as well as someone with a sex addiction. Both can be true.
Serious question - have there been high profile cases in equestrian disciplines other than h/j? If not, why not? And is h/j the only discipline in which there has been such a strong backlash against SafeSport?
I was wondering the same. I have a number of friends who earn their living via USEF sharing the petition; others who have spent astronomical sums of money to be competitive doing the same. Do you mean to tell me they are legitimately willing to sacrifice their competition records over this? I don’t think most of them even have connections to RG, so it’s not even a matter of grief for them. They just want to be swept up in the outrage, because all the “cool” kids are doing it. When you try to reason with them, it becomes apparent that they know nothing about SafeSport other than that they had to sit through a video.
Most of them are parents of young children, which baffles me even more.
I hope people will be somewhat patient with their friends. As this was starting to come out, it looked and sounded very different from what it does now. I for one have felt it is not at all likely this was an error as more information from SS comes out, but at first when it seemed like a consensual teenager one-off…I was waiting for more info to draw conclusions which did not happen for a couple of days. Even now there is precious little information.
some of the comments are just awful! Keep judging those, I know I am!
I recall some recent discussion over Eventing, can’t remember the specifics but very recognizable name. I was on the Western side for many years before switching to Hunters. There was no SS or even open discussion but there were just as many whispers around those barns and shows as ever graced the HJ side. One ASB trainer was banned and served time for grooming/ developing minor clients for purposes of molestation.
Havent read this thread past the first couple of pages, has anybody mentioned MWs statement that came across my FB page this weekend. Interesting reading. Very thoughtful.
Also, has anybody mentioned any research or statistics on problems experienced by victims of molestation, including suicide? Just asking, no idea of specifics, which might be difficult to find due to the victims being minors at the time.
