Thanks RugBug for your intelligent comments throughout this thread.
Everyone wants to eliminate sexual abuse from equestrian sports. I’ve read this entire thread and I didn’t see anyone whose position is, “Let’s ensure that predators can abuse minors with impunity!” The only real issue for discussion is, are there any improvements that can be made to the SafeSport process to make it fairer, more efficient, or more efficacious?
A few posters appear to be taking the extreme position that the SafeSport process is perfect, there is no possible improvement that can be made to it, and even discussing the subject constitutes an endorsement of predators. “Black and white” thinking, indeed.
Anyway, thanks to all for an interesting and thought-provoking discussion. I see the Gymnastics organization has sent an official letter to SafeSport raising concerns about the process. It will be interesting to see where this all goes.
The contradiction is that multiple people on this thread posted that you CANNOT report anonymously. Safesport materials contradict that. I don’t really see that you can argue that point at all. It’s been a belabored point, people have been berated…and yet it isn’t accurate. And is readily determined to not be accurate.
Section V (pg 8) of the Practices and Procedures document seems to say that yes, an allegation (anonymous or not) that is serious enough in nature can result in immediate interim measures. So, if you say the right things. you can get someone suspended.
This is all super speculative (an individual that would make a false accusation egregious enough for immediate suspension is truly f-d up) But that is what creates unease.
I’m not comfortable taking anyone’s word or basing things off their assumptions/interpretation of how things will be enacted. Because that is exactly where the flaws will start showing. Can those flaw be proactively addressed?
I understand that anonymous reporting is meant to come from bystanders, not victims.
It is modeled after the type of child abuse hotlines. “I am concerned about this situation that I have observed”,
NOT “this person abused me but I’m not giving you my name”.
There is a chasm between the two, and I think this is perhaps where the confusion lies.
I suspect the answer is the same as when you send an anonymous tip to the police.
In fact, my local sheriff does public information ads explaining their anonymous tipline, how it’s basically set up so they can’t trace your call and they don’t want you to give identifying information if you call it. It’s used to give the sheriff information that they can use to start their own investigation - a map say.
If I called that line tomorrow and said Suzy Creamcheese did X crime, they’re not going to lock her up for 20 years based on that call alone. But what they might do is look to see if the crime was committed, or if there’s ongoing activity, and if there’s evidence that she might have done it. My call isn’t the evidence. My call leads them to the evidence, if it has enough information in it. If it’s a crank call, they find nothing and that’s the end of it.
The SafeSport statement on anonymity is quite clear about the various options they have. Right on the site, though, they say if you’re making an accusation, they will have situations where disclosing your name is essential to completing the investigation. The accused is going to get the name. And that if you really, really don’t want any risk of that, they have a list of places you can go for counseling that have a greater oath of confidentiality.
The idea that is going around that you can just make an anonymous crank call and get someone who is innocent of wrongdoing suspended for life has no basis in reality.
You know what I noticed in the last few days and found PROFOUNDLY disheartening?
There is an individual who was the equestrian coach of the 2008 US Pentathlon Team at the Beijing Olympics, who had substantial connections to John Lipari for YEARS, has publicly expressed great sadness about what happened with allegations against Jimmy Williams becoming public last year (because this person also had a friendship with JW) and feels that
“Jimmy was raped by the USEF and stripped of everything he had achieved in his life. Well you can not erase a name, and for many of us Jimmy will live on forever.”
That is only one of multiple stunning things said in a very long public post with 106 comments following, and lots of people supporting it all. The post is another one all about what a problem Safe Sport is, unfair, etc At one point toward the end of the post, this person does ACTUALLY state that everyone KNOWS there is merit to many of the claims and allegations that are coming out now… but still… it all should stop because people’s lives are being ruined by all this Safe Sport investigating, and USEF bans that follow. And it’s just so hard to understand why people are lodging reports about so many things that apparently happened way back when.
Buried in all the comments responding to this impassioned stance regarding the unfairness of Safe Sport, someone else commented and pushed back on the entire original post. In a pretty firm but fair way. after all… isn’t this all about people who are coming forward claiming to have been sexually assaulted by various adult riding coaches? Regardless, here is the response they got from this person
“ME-TO” is a movement to come forward and express yourself for the time in ur life where u were compromised
Not to wait 25-30-35-40 yrs after someone is no longer with us, or incapacitated where a woman or man comes forward and their story now has been embellished or a wandering memory
Surely there are REAL MEMORIES, then there are Blood Sucking Memories just to ruin someone
Just like what happen to our Dear Friend RG
I AM SORRY, but I can tell you, what happening the 60’s thru the 80’s. We had many s pretty young EQUESTRISN who could not keep their tips clipped and their bottoms tight
Many careers are being ruined
These people are NOT GUILTY UNTIL PTOVEN INNOCENT!
That second quote happened over the weekend. This person also claims in comment to have had extensive training in Safe Sport over 4 years ago when policies were first being put together because of the prior connection in a coaching capacity to a US Olympic Team.
Hopefully, remedial Safe Sport training will be available for those who need it.
But back to your statements that I quoted - I DO hope you are correct and current clients of this person ARE asking what precisely IS up with these statements of support for …
not 1
not 2
but… wait for it… 3!!! people accused of SERIOUS sexual abuse of minors.
Last but not least… in case you’re interested after reading any of this and looking at all the public comments he has made on his own Facebook page… He does apparently market a coaching program specifically for junior riders. Seriously. Look it up. A junior rider program.
Maybe I have more faith in people all around. My opinion, if an anonymous call came out of the blue and someone landed on the interim list solely from one anonymous tip, I hope people would take to the streets and Facebook like they are doing now.
Is it a flawless process? No. We will never have a flawless process. Our criminal justice system is not a flawless process. That doesn’t mean we toss it out.
Also, I’m okay with SS potential flaws because they do not put people in jail. I’m also okay with flaws in our CJ system. Every time there’s a mistake made a correction comes about.
They cannot make them register as a sex offender. All they are doing is saying you cannot attend USEF sanctioned events. That’s not to say do not try to make improvements but I also believe the flaws are directly related to people.
If what GPjumper says is true about the investigator she spoke to that’s the flaw. The person, not the process is the flaw. Maybe that person needs more training. Maybe they need to work elsewhere.
You can’t really call out law enforcement for their implicit bias to find guilt and then a couple posts away complain because there are members on the team with non-law enforcement background. Having investigators with varied backgrounds is key. Those academics have different but useful training. There are FBI agents who are lawyers, who have traditional police-type backgrounds, who are accountants, who are computer experts, who are language experts, etc. All different backgrounds can be useful. Given the breadth of what safesport has to cover (including bullying and workplace harassment) I can see someone with academic experience (especially in research, compliance, or Title 9) having a lot to add.
But they can ruin lives. Think about it. A false accusation or questioning one can tarnish someone’s name and ruin their career. That’s serious stuff. That’s like suspending a teacher and then saying “my bad”. The masses have already made a public opinion about the individual. The damage was done.
And yet we have seen time and time again that is not true for the horse world. Google the people banned for life for sexual misconduct with a minor. Some have training barns up and running that cater to junior riders still. One hosts/has hosted Easter egg hunts at his farm. People knew what was going on at Flintridge and still rode with JW. Time and time again people have proven that it does not matter.
Which is why an investigation is done. To confirm the accusation. Sexual abuse has been around a long time, and SafeSport is pretty darn late to the oversight party. They didn’t invent the investigation process, that too has been around for decades. I went through sexual abuse training and a background check decades ago via the Catholic Church (lets not go there right now) just so I could bring cupcakes into preschool for my kids. This is not the wheel being invented. Many organizations for many years have been watchdogs for sexual abuse of a minor and have policies and procedures in place to handle accusations and investigations. Whether it’s horses or school or scouts or whatever, the investigative process is the same. I am glad that the USOC is taking responsibility and cleaning house and protecting future generations from sexual abuse.
And here is where you are dead wrong. Safesport covers every Olympic sport. This isn’t just an equestrian issue. This goes way beyond USEF and our little bubble. The implications have the potential to be devastating when names are released without allowing the accused to defend themselves.
Again they can request a hearing at anytime. Also, who’s life was ruined by a false accusation? I think @Texarkana asked this question way back. How many people are destitute over an interim suspension who was later cleared?
I have had some experience with Safesport. I should have been more clear. They can not ACT on anonymous complaints. There has to be an accusation by someone willing to put their name with the complaint. The accused party does have access the identity of their accuser/s as part of the process. Anonymous reports can be used for corroboration, not action.
Therefore, anonymous here has 2 meanings.:
1.) The identity of the victim is not revealed to the public.
2.) Safesport doesn’t proceed without a complainant willing to put their name on their statement which will be revealed to the accused as part of the process.
