Rob Gage

[GPjumper]

@Denali6298

Again they can request a hearing at anytime. Also, who’s life was ruined by a false accusation? I think @Texarkana asked this question way back. How many people are destitute over an interim suspension who was later cleared?

Safesport investigates ONE side before the interim suspension. The accused doesn’t even know they are accused until the first email and being named publicly. That is NOT an investigation and that IS how it went down for the case I’m involved with.
For example, the weekend the name of the minor was released, I was competing at a dressage show. His name was being discussed all over the horse and how USEF/Safesport released the name of a minor. If this minor had sponsorships/working student positions etc. it could absolutely affect their trajectory within the industry and basically force them to quit.

There is another local who was accused (badminton I believe) who was cleared but hasn’t competed since. It is pending civil litigation is the last I heard. You may think it’s just a club sport, but many have their entire lives based on it. Many other sports are not as willing to overlook the accusations the way equestrians are.

[Texarkana]

The more people in the horse business are trying to explain how “lives are being ruined” by SafeSport and these “false” accusation, the less sympathy I am having for them.

Their name was released in an email! They had an interim suspension that lasted mere hours! They had to retain a lawyer! They had to answer difficult questions from an investigator! The investigator was mean! They won’t know the decision for months (yet are free to keep operating their business)!

I am also still disgusted by the widely accepted assumption that most accusations are false. I’ve been a part of the rampant unprofessionalism of the horse world and think it’s far more likely there is a kernel of truth in most every accusation. No, I don’t think every accused party is guilty; an interim suspension does not automatically change my opinion of someone. I suspect many situations fall into a gray area where behavior of both parties was questionable. With SafeSport still being relatively new, there are growing pains as they try to sort the actionable from the unprofessional.

I am perfectly willing to have a conversation about how we can improve SafeSport. I appreciate those who have shared some of their firsthand experiences with investigations; they have raised some questions in my mind regarding how this can be fixed. But most detractors don’t want to talk about improving SafeSport. They would rather blame it for all of the problems in the horse world rather than begin acknowledging said problems.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@MHM

Virginia Horse Mom, link, please? Or a name?

LadyJ named him. Insert the middle initial D to look up his public Facebook account and read through multiple posts all regarding his feelings about Safe Sport and USEF and how “wrong” it is to dig into stuff from the past. It’s an eyeful.

Here’s a link to that article about Lipari again which orhers have shared. He’s quoted in it… another eye opener.

#MeToo movement prompts disclosure of alleged sexual abuse at La Jolla Farms...

And a link from his own website all about his connection to USA Pentathlon as a coach for the 2008 Olympic Team.

https://www.eqcntrintl.com/about-us

I did try and look up who is currently affiliated with USA Pentathlon. Seems like he is no longer the coach. But I am not completely sure - I have zero knowledge of that sport. And maybe he’s a great coach technically speaking and did a great job with that team in terms of that sport… again… I have no knowledge. But culturally speaking, I would imagine Safe Sport and the USOC in general would have a challenge with anyone serving as an Olympic Coach for ANY team espousing the views he recently has put forward PUBLICLY on social media concerning people who have come forward with accusations from long ago about serious sexual abuse of minors in sport. How are his comments anything other than victim shaming?

If this isn’t victim shaming, then what is? If USEF and SafeSport don’t sanction people who make statements like this in the wake of cases of abuse of minor athletes that they have issued final rulings about… how in the world can they say with a straight face they want to make sport safer for athletes to come forward with complaints of abuse?

This is the stuff silent victims watch from the sidelines, who have not yet come forward, and watch other people in positions of power, and how they react. And then decide whether or not it’s safe yet to speak up.

[Classic]

The lack of parental presence and real engagement other than $ in the horse show world creates a stage for an abuser. Kids traveling with trainers and assitant trainers - parents may show up part of the time. Hard to catch nuances of an abusive situation. And the win, win, we must win pressure on all. .

[ladyj79]

Yeah, but mainly abusers set the stage for abuse.

Be vigilant, be realistic, of course, but the blame lies solely with abusers.

[MHM]

@ladyj79

@MHM Michael Cintas

Thanks.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@MHM

Virginia Horse Mom, link, please? Or a name?

LadyJ named him, but he goes by Michael D Cintas on Facebook. Look up all his public posts… and the multiple statements about how terrible Safe Sport is for professionals in the sport, and how upset he is with USEF, and how “wrong” it is… what USEF and Safe Sport “did” to Jimmy Williams and RG.

And If you’re curious, go back and read that article linked earlier about Lipinski… here it is again

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/watchdog/sd-me-equestrian-metoo-20180708-story.html

And just for those of you - like me - who do not have much in the way of familiarity with Pentathlon and who has been involved with our Olympic Teams in the past, he has a write up about his experience coaching in 2008 on his website…

https://www.eqcntrintl.com/about-us

I do think it’s actually important to point people’s attitudes and public statements like he is making right now… because this is clearly NOT just about grief over the death of close longtime friend. And clearly whatever Safe Sport training MC did participate in WASN’T quite enough, given his public statements and sentiments about JW and Lipari in the wake of MULTIPLE published accounts from people who did come forward because they suffered HORRIFIC abuse when they were children with a desire to ride and compete.

I stopped short of linking to the “services” section of his website, where anyone interested can find a description of his “junior rider” program. Perhaps because I don’t want to violate the rules against advertising… or perhaps because I sincerely don’t want to advertise it. At all.

I do hope others are correct though, and that any current client who is in fact part of the junior rider program does ask some questions about his deep friendships and respect and admiration for multiple figures who were accused by multiple other people who are now adults of sexually exploiting them as minors back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

[Palm_Beach]

In many jurisdictions, court records are online and searchable by name. Any civil or criminal or traffic record involving an individual will show up, No matter what the outcome or verdict. Even if a person is found Not Guilty, or wins a civil suit, his or her name is still there. Even if charges are dropped. Even if He or she did nothing wrong. An vindictive ex-spouse can make all kinds of allegations in court pleadings and it’s all a matter of public record. Anyone remember the stripper who got members of the Duke lacrosse team kicked out of school? SafeSport is not the only organizer entity dealing with false accusations. If you want to ruin someone’s life via false accusations, there are plenty of options.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@MHM

Virginia Horse Mom, link, please? Or a name?

LadyJ named him, but he goes by Michael D Cintas on Facebook. Look up all his public posts… and the multiple statements about how terrible Safe Sport is for professionals in the sport, and how upset he is with USEF, and how “wrong” it is… what USEF and Safe Sport “did” to Jimmy Williams and RG.

And If you’re curious, go back and read that article linked earlier about Lipinski… here it is again

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/watchdog/sd-me-equestrian-metoo-20180708-story.html

And just for those of you - like me - who do not have much in the way of familiarity with Pentathlon and who has been involved with our Olympic Teams in the past, he has a write up about his experience coaching in 2008 with the Beijing team on his website…

https://www.eqcntrintl.com/about-us

I do think it’s actually important to point out people’s attitudes and public statements like the ones he has been making for the last few days on social media… because this is clearly NOT just about grief over the death of a close friend last week.

And clearly whatever Safe Sport training MC did participate in WASN’T quite enough, given his public statements and sentiments about JW and Lipari. There were MULTIPLE published accounts from people who did come forward because they suffered HORRIFIC abuse when they were children at the hands of these two men. Perhaps Safe Sport needs to develop a “remedial” training program.

I stopped short of linking to the “services” section of his website, where anyone interested can find a description of his “junior rider” program. I don’t want to violate the rules against advertising…

[AllOverFarm]

Reality is… We all are aware of the sexual corruption that has occurred for decades in this sport.
Reality is… SS has stepped in to clean house because everyone has turned a blind eye for way to long.
Reality is… nobody is voluntarily going to turn themselves in. They are going to kick & scream & try to deny it.
We need to trust SS to clean house. This abuse has happened…we all know it to be true.
SS has taken people off the list, so, I trust they are doing a Row thorough job with investigations.
Nobody is voluntarily going to turn themselves in… the kicking and screaming & denying is going to happen.
I read on fb that the RG case was a 400 page investigation. ( not sure how people know this stuff)

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@MHM

Virginia Horse Mom, link, please? Or a name?

LadyJ named him, but he goes by Michael D Cintas on Facebook. Look up all his public posts… and the multiple statements about how terrible Safe Sport is for professionals in the sport, and how upset he is with USEF, and how “wrong” it is… what USEF and Safe Sport “did” to Jimmy Williams and RG.

And If you’re curious, go back and read that article linked earlier about Lipinski… here it is again

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com…708-story.html

And just for those of you - like me - who do not have much in the way of familiarity with Pentathlon and who has been involved with our Olympic Teams in the past, he has a write up about his experience coaching in 2008 with the Beijing team on his website…

https://www.eqcntrintl.com/about-us

I do think it’s actually important to point out people’s attitudes and public statements like the ones he has been making for the last few days on social media… because this is clearly NOT just about grief over the death of a close friend last week.

And clearly whatever Safe Sport training MC did participate in WASN’T quite enough, given his public statements and sentiments about JW and Lipari. There were MULTIPLE published accounts from people who did come forward because they suffered HORRIFIC abuse when they were children at the hands of these two men. Maybe Safe Sport can develop “remedial” training for people who are having challenges locking on these days.

I stopped short of linking to the “services” section of his website, where anyone interested can find a description of his “junior rider” program. I don’t want to violate the rules against advertising…

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

LadyJ named him, And he is on Facebook. Look up all his public posts… and the multiple statements about how terrible Safe Sport is for professionals in the sport, and how upset he is with USEF, and how “wrong” it is… what USEF and Safe Sport “did” to JW and RG.

And If you’re curious, go back and read that article linked earlier about Lipinski… here it is again

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/watchdog/sd-me-equestrian-metoo-20180708-story.html

And just for those of you - like me - who do not have much in the way of familiarity with Pentathlon and who has been involved with our Olympic Teams in the past, he has a write up about his experience coaching in 2008 with the Beijing team on his website…

https://www.eqcntrintl.com/about-us

I stopped short of linking to the “services” section of his website, where anyone interested can find a description of his “junior rider” program. I don’t want to violate the rules against advertising…

[Jealoushe]

@GPjumper

Safesport investigates ONE side before the interim suspension. The accused doesn’t even know they are accused until the first email and being named publicly. That is NOT an investigation and that IS how it went down for the case I’m involved with.
For example, the weekend the name of the minor was released, I was competing at a dressage show. His name was being discussed all over the horse and how USEF/Safesport released the name of a minor. If this minor had sponsorships/working student positions etc. it could absolutely affect their trajectory within the industry and basically force them to quit.

There is another local who was accused (badminton I believe) who was cleared but hasn’t competed since. It is pending civil litigation is the last I heard. You may think it’s just a club sport, but many have their entire lives based on it. Many other sports are not as willing to overlook the accusations the way equestrians are.

But to be fair, per your comments to me you aren’t a victim or the accused, youre an outsider with ties to both sides. I can’t imagine you know ALL the details. You just don’t.

[Jealoushe]

SO I read an article on Safe Sport last night, doing some of my own research into this to see if the way it works is really how everyone claims. What I found was that time and time again, if people are given a lfietime ban, it is only after extenuating evidence, and no reasonable doubt is left that the actions were in fact commited, likely on repeat occasions, and that there is a serious risk of re offending.

So I do not believe for one second that SS is in the business of banning people who had a teen romance gone wrong, or playing into the hands of those looking to ruin others lives. I feel confident after reading the countless articles, and interviews that they take their job seriously and do no go about suspending or banning anyone just willy nilly.

I know the person I know involved in a case currently had to do a lot of leg work to get a suspension even considered. The burden of proof lies on the accuser, not the accused to prove innocent like so many hating on SS seem to believe.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

400 pages? Wow.

In other news… someone posted another long rant on Facebook that I just noticed. Because the REAL problem is Safe Sport and USEF.

Lots of noise coming from that guy. Unreal.

[GPjumper]

@Jealoushe

But to be fair, per your comments to me you aren’t a victim or the accused, youre an outsider with ties to both sides. I can’t imagine you know ALL the details. You just don’t.

I know how it was handed down. I don’t know all the details as it is against SS policy for either the accused or the accuser to share any official correspondence. I don’t see them doling our lifetime bans willy nilly either and I don’t think the masses want to see safesport done away with. They just want to make sure that both sides are adequately protected from negative feedback until a decision is made on those accusations.

[2bayboys]

@GPjumper

Safesport investigates ONE side before the interim suspension. The accused doesn’t even know they are accused until the first email and being named publicly. That is NOT an investigation and that IS how it went down for the case I’m involved with.
For example, the weekend the name of the minor was released, I was competing at a dressage show. His name was being discussed all over the horse and how USEF/Safesport released the name of a minor. If this minor had sponsorships/working student positions etc. it could absolutely affect their trajectory within the industry and basically force them to quit.

You know this is how criminal investigations work, right? You don’t tell the bad guy you are investigating him for bad guy stuff until you’re pretty damn sure he did what you suspect him of doing. So you investigate the allegations BEFORE you interview him.

[Max123]

@RugBug

Perhaps, but people have been assertive in stating that you CANNOT report anonymously and SafeSport won’t act on it. The first is false…is the second?

They add the anonymous reports to the file but they can’t act on an anonymous report. You have to give your name to file an actual complaint.

[Midge]

@ladyj79

@MHM Michael Cintas

Basically. We were having sex with children. What of it???

[GPjumper]

@2bayboys

You know this is how criminal investigations work, right? You don’t tell the bad guy you are investigating him for bad guy stuff until you’re pretty damn sure he did what you suspect him of doing. So you investigate the allegations BEFORE you interview him.

It is also illegal to release the name of a minor…so which protocols are we following…