Rob Gage

Is there any information about exactly what was said at this meeting? Specifically what the accusations are and when the events were supposed to have occurred? Was anyone there?

Still trying to get enough information to decide what I think about all of this.

(To the mob: As I write this, I already expect insults along the lines of “how dare I not trust the accusers” and “isn’t it enough that there are 5 accusers” and “I am a morally repugnant person for not trusting the SafeSport process.” Nevertheless, I still would like to know what the accusers said.)

9 Likes

of course you do…is it so you can decide on your scale of not that bad - to not that THAT that bad the action was? Or so you can try and disect whether it actually happened or not? It’s been explained many times, in this thread over and over why details aren’t released. It’s also been said what they said, so read back and your answers are actually in the thread.

19 Likes

This is something I’ve had in the back of my mind from the beginning. Admittedly I’m an outsider watching this unfold publicly, but given what we do know, it’s hard not to wonder if his decision to end it all might have been tied to a potential criminal case in addition to the in-sport reputation damage. If he was in good spirits one day looking forward to his appeal meeting date (per Bernie Traurig’s Facebook post), then hung himself a couple of days later after learning the name(s) of a new accuser, perhaps there was more to the story than a ban and negative PR? After all, SafeSport does report to law enforcement if minors are involved.

22 Likes

Not there, but I did see her (public) post on Facebook announcing she’d be there after the GP to answer questions regarding her role in the SS investigation of RG. It wasn’t an official press conference, as far as I know. There was an offer to answer questions in person if someone couldn’t make it…

I’m almost 100% sure that there are more than five total, if that matters to anyone.

12 Likes

@OwnTooMany I can only speak for myself, but I don’t think you’re “morally repugnant for not trusting the SafeSport process.” While I may disagree with your suggested improvements (especially in regards to raising the standard of proof from “the preponderance of the evidence”), those are your opinions and you have every right to express them.

In regards to Rob Gage’s situation, it has already been established directly from Dan Hill (spokesperson of SafeSport) that Gage was found liable of sexual misconduct with “a number of minors” (USA Today) - a statement which corroborates @oneequestrienne’s earlier posts. Hillary Ridland’s Facebook post also corroborates @oneequestrienne’s statements about an informal Q&A regarding “my [Ridland’s] involvement in the SafeSport investigation of Rob Gage.”

These established facts and some of your past comments are why I, personally, am very uncomfortable with some of the questions you are asking. It gives me the impression that you want to judge for yourself if the accusations were “severe” enough to warrant a lifetime ban.

P.S. I want to make it clear that I don’t think that you’re wrong for simply asking those questions. During my interviews related to my SafeSport project, I ask the same questions. I am just uncomfortable about what I believe to be the reasons that you are asking those questions considering the established facts that we already know.

35 Likes

I’m not sure that’s fair. Ridland’s Facebook post and Q&A were public. Asking for clarification about a public statement is different than demanding information about victims who have not chosen to speak out.

4 Likes

I would also like to hear a more clear account of that session, as I said in an earlier post. But I completely respect her decision to approach the subject in the way that seemed best for her. If she wanted to send out a press release, or speak to a reporter, she certainly could have done that.

I can only express my respect for her and the other people who came forward to corroborate the other accounts based on their own experiences. They did not have to do that, but they chose to do it anyway.

10 Likes

Which is why I said that I don’t think that asking the questions is wrong. I have no problem with people asking about the public Q&A. I am uncomfortable, however, if the intention behind asking those questions is to personally “gauge” if the level of sexual misconduct committed was “severe” enough to warrant a lifetime ban from the USEF.

22 Likes

I am floored that an informal Q&A happened to help assuage people. I looked up the Facebook post and she also stated that for those who couldn’t make it, she would be available at a later date.

Maybe everyone who wants to know the details and what was said can contact her directly. I think it would be crass to do so, but so are some of the post here that ask for the details so those posters can make a judgement call on how bad. I never knew sexual misconduct with a minor had levels.

16 Likes

Only if the person performing the misconduct is either a) a member of the horse community, b) a friend, or c) both.

19 Likes

This is the sentiment that disturbs me.

Anyone who cares to can read a detailed description, on the SafeSport web site, of the policies, procedures, and definitions that are used in SafeSport investigations.

We know SafeSport conducted a thorough investigation following those policies, procedures, and definitions, which was detailed in a 400 page report.

We know that there were multiple victims (SafeSport said) and based on the public Q&A organized by Hillary Ridland, that “multiple” was at least 4. And, based on, admittedly second-hand, reports from the Q&A session, at least two of the victims were very young, far younger than that “dating a 17 year old” straw man some people keep throwing out there.

We know that SafeSport felt that there was sufficient potential for harm to current minors who might come in contact with RG to justify an interim suspension.

We know that SafeSport felt that RG’s actions warranted a lifetime ban.

And, based on comments on Hillary Ridland’s Facebook, the reason HR organized the Q&A session was “people who made it necessary for real people to put their names forward to make the charge believable.”

When you say “Still trying to get enough information to decide what I think about all of this,” what I hear is that you think the victims were lying, you think SafeSport investigators are incompetent at best, liars at worst, and you think that some kinds of sexual interactions with minors are OK and people shouldn’t be punished for those “OK” kinds of transgressions.

Maybe that’s not what you really think, but that’s the impression I get when I read your posts. And I find that disturbing.

41 Likes

Has anyone given thought on how to protect athletes moving forward within your riding “communities”, barns, at horse shows (both rated and local schooling shows)?

How do you let riders and parents know who to look out for? For those that are currently sanctioned, who remain involved in the sport by teaching lessons, providing other equine services, or who have moved on to the unrated horse show world - how do you protect those children. Parents wouldn’t even know to look at Safesport or USEF for sanctions.

For those predators who haven’t been caught or reported - how do we communicate to others that they should be concerned about their children being around certain individuals? Anyone who has followed along the various social media discussions will have come across many statements regarding the facts that for years it was whispered to other riders and parents not to leave their child alone with this individual. How do we move from rumours / whispers to actually informing other people on who poses a risk to our young athletes? In my opinion protecting our young riders outweighs any other right. I have never heard any rumours about the majority of trainers but it does seem consistent when you do hear rumours of abuse with others. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire.

For those that are heavily involved in the rated show world - how do you move forward trusting some of the trainers that were heavily backing RG, all the while knowing that there was truth behind the allegations? How do you decide if they were reacting to the loss of a friend, or if they were reacting because of their own activities that would see them sanctioned if reported? As a parent, if you saw your child’s trainer supporting someone who abused multiple minors, it makes you question their integrity and morals. It makes you question the safety of your child.

That being said, I do believe that there are trainers who are respectfully and delicately handling the situation. I hope that many are sitting down with their students and their parents and having long discussions over this, and reassuring them that they will openly listen and help them (or their friends) if someone is at risk.

As a rider who has been abused, groomed, or is dealing with someone whose behaviour is extremely inappropriate how do you let other athletes know what is going on without fearing that the person abusing you is correct with their threats, that if you say something or report it no one will believe them, or that they will never be able to find another trainer because they are friends with “everyone”. That they will never go anywhere in this sport without them because they are “god”, or “connected” enough they can ruin your reputation with a few phone calls. These are all real scenarios. This is why abuse is under reported in this sport and many others. There are more riders in this sport who are remaining silent because they fear losing their mounts, their jobs, their financial support.

Again, looking at those that are currently sanctioned by Safesport and USEF many are continuing their lives in and around children. Many are being supported in one way or another by other trainers who are allowing them to remain loosely involved at rated shows by trying to evade the sanctions. Should those trainers be sanctioned for “aiding and abetting”?

Will professionals in this industry think about this and recognize that instead of fighting Safesport and the rules that are meant to protect our athletes, that they should be fighting to protect their students and every other athlete in the industry? Will the owners and contributors who are financially supporting the sport do their part and choose who they invest in with consideration to athlete safety? There are no careers to be had, if there are no clients or owners. Safesport is not going away, USEF is not going to be changing their position on protecting their membership from all forms of abuse.

There have been many arguments that what happened 30 years ago wasn’t illegal, or wasn’t considered all that immoral, but really that is irrelevant moving forward. Will everyone accept that this behaviour is not tolerable? Will they speak up and step forward when they see others continuing with these same abuses? Not just sexual abuse but verbal, emotional and physical? Is this a sport that can band together and move forward committed to a better atmosphere and understanding that they can be self policing and for looking out for everyone.

For those that are currently abusing athletes, or who have been abusing athletes, you should be scared. You can post all you want on the “unfairness” of the regulations, but the majority of people in this sport are good people and they know who you really are. Your anger at a system meant to stop this behaviour is not going to save you from being caught.

Victims are learning that they are not the ones who should be ashamed and they are gathering their strength to come forward and ensure that this doesn’t happen to other riders. You can not evade sanctions by terminating your memberships, you can not evade being caught by trying to now distance yourself from USEF shows and trying to convince your peers to do the same. Preying on your students, working students and others in this industry has a spotlight shining down on it and it isn’t going away.

There are a lot of trainers who are now also feeling more powerful about being able to report abusers without facing the backlash of others. Their moral compasses are stronger than their need to keep some silent “code” of protecting their own no matter what the cost. They are speaking up and refusing to do business with abusive trainers and those that support them. There are some that have done this all along. Those are the trainers that we should be supporting as owners contributing financially to the sport, and when we are selecting who we train with or who our children train with. It’s unfortunate that this needs to be actively discussed but it’s clearly required. There are some really great trainers out there that need to distance themselves from the “bad” ones so that their images are not continued to be tarnished because of the actions of those they have been associated with in the past.

Abusers are manipulative and will cling to anyone that they think will keep them afloat and alive in this sport. If I was surrounding by anyone that was so vehemently protesting Safesport I would be questioning why they are so opposed to something that protects individuals. What is it that they have to hide?

Do you know someone who has been abused or is currently being abused and are you prepared to help them? Are you prepared to step forward and speak out when you see or hear of abusive behaviour? Those are the questions that matter now and matter moving forward. Those are the discussions that need to be taking place.

14 Likes

People have a really, really hard time with data sometimes. This month, the SCOTUS overturned the conviction of Curtis Flowers from MS, a poor black man who has been tried and convicted six times for a quadruple murder. Every time it was appealed and every time the conviction was overturned. The DA systematically rejected black jurors and it worked until the appeal made it not work. So yesterday I heard a podcast that followed SCOTUS’ decision. The mother of one of the victims simply cannot understand why Curtis can’t just accept what’s been done and get on with his life. She literally (intentional word choice) cannot believe that an innocent man who has been on death row for the last 21 years, who was prohibited from attending his own mother’s funeral, won’t just ‘accept the situation.’

When I read posts like those from @OwnTooMany , I think of reactions like the one I just described above. It just CANNOT be that what I think or feel is wrong, ill-informed, unjust, or again, just plain old flat-out WRONG. It just cannot be. I have to be right, and ‘they’ ARE WRONG.

14 Likes

@TMares that is absolutely disgusting. What is wrong with people?

@equestrian_mom the answer to your first question is people need to speak up. Safe Sport provides a way to do that and protect those who do to the best of their ability. A while back a poster talked about a BNT she was warned about numerous times. Her solution was not letting her daughter ride for the BNT. That’s a good first step. The next step is to report them.

I hope the courage that the women had that held the Q&A inspires people and give them strength to hold these people accountable for their actions.

6 Likes

Ok, I agree with you there. I think the fact that they felt they had to make a public statement at all is appalling. I wonder how all those who signed the silly petition feel now.

16 Likes

They probably are still holding strong to their convictions.

11 Likes

Well hopefully they hold strong enough to their conviction to follow through with their promise to cut ties with USEF. Let the trash take itself out.

That certainly makes it easier for me as a new parent in the sport.

21 Likes

I’ve been following along quietly for several days not but I can’t not speak up after seeing the above.

Why on earth would you need the details? It’s not enough for you that 5 victims have come forward with a couple of them well below 17? It’s not “he said she said” any more when several victims come forward. Case closed this guy was a creep and took advantage of his position of power.

I truly feel for the victims that have had to come forward and re-live the past because of people like you that can’t accept that he was a creep.

44 Likes

Doubtful but I hope for the same.

4 Likes

Also inverse seriousness in relation to how good the rider is as a rider (sarcasm). You can be rapier if you win grand prixs (sarcasm).

20 Likes