Rob Gage

[oneequestrienne]

@Tiramit

Thank you for posting this. It’s baffling to me how this simple fact keeps getting overlooked. A SafeSport suspension isn’t jail time. It means that those found guilty have been kicked out of the club.

As for those who are complaining about the length of time that has passed, wowza you may want to reconsider your interpretation of what’s right and what’s wrong.

Suicide is tragic and in this case he has left a legacy of friends and fans who are in pain. He was, however, found guilty after an investigation (pending appeal) and we can’t forget that exists because someone else has been in pain, due to his actions, whatever they may have been, for decades.

It’s a sad story from beginning to end.

Amen.

[IPEsq]

@oneequestrienne

He wasn’t set down by USEF. He was sanctioned by Safesport.

This is important to repeat. While USEF has to implement Safe Sport policies, the reporting and handling of anything having to do with sexual misconduct goes through the U.S. Center for Safe Sport. Nonsexual misconduct such as hazing or bullying may be reported to USEF.

As the NGB, USEF does publish equestrians who are on the SafeSport banned or suspended lists.

Sure, USEF has screwed up in the past with handling of things like doping cases, but that’s not relevant here.

[caffeinated]

@snaffle1987

It’s all very sad. but to the poster who claimed that Anne Kursinski now has blood on her hands because of her stepping up; shame on you.

I believe that was a commenter on a facebook thread, not a forum member here. Someone here quoted it, to show the vitriol being spewed.

[cloudyandcallie]

My sympathy is with the victims. They are scarred for life. I never had any cases involving the horse business but I tried hundreds of rape and hundreds of child molestation cases in over 20 years. Those victims were tried/judged by the cops, by prosecutors and by judges and most of all by jurors. It has always been so for many decades
Victims never get over it.

[skydy]

@caffeinated

I believe that was a commenter on a facebook thread, not a forum member here. Someone here quoted it, to show the vitriol being spewed.

I don’t participate in Facebook for a reason and I wish people wouldn’t bring it here. Fat chance though.

[Midge]

@snaffle1987

after reading through this mess, Im going to throw a curve ball

Perhaps his suicide was because he knew he was guilty and that safe sport had the evidence to take action against him and he couldn’t live with that idea.

Perhaps it wasn’t just him ending it all because he was improperly accused and couldn’t stomach his life being potentially ruined.

It’s all very sad. but to the poster who claimed that Anne Kursinski now has blood on her hands because of her stepping up; shame on you.

I don’t think that is a curve ball at all. I think that is the most likely scenario.

[INoMrEd]

This is all so very sad. I didn’t know Rob personally but my husband and many of our equestrian friends around the country sure did. There’s more on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Equestrian/comments/c06gax/rip_rob_gage/

[Tiramit]

What happens to the appeal? Will it move forward or will the record forever show a permanent suspension?

[Max123]

@Midge

I don’t think that is a curve ball at all. I think that is the most likely scenario.

This is from a post on page 1: The criminal charges were becoming a reality that he couldn’t overlook and unfortunately, he took his own life. He made this choice, it does not reflect on anyone else. Sometimes it is surprising to learn what others are capable of doing, sometimes it is not so surprising but people voice their denial rather than to admit the truth, that they were “friends”

[Keep_it_Simple]

I offer my condolences to Rob Gage’s family, friends, clients and others saddened by his death. Suicide is tragic and sad. I know nothing about this case, but I have experience with SafeSport. As a victim of sexual assault, I know the feeling of despair. I know how it feels to have no one to turn to, to wish you were dead. The person that abused me has enjoyed many, many years in the sport.

I read comments that the SafeSport training won’t stop the perpetrator. Well, no it won’t. I see it it educating adults to be aware of inappropriate behavior. That is step 1. Step 2 is the one that is more important and requires integrity, something that is lacking in our sport. Step 2 is standing up to protect the minor, standing up to the trainer, the icon, the offender. If someone had done this in the early 80s, I might not have been a victim, and all other girls came after me would not have been victims.

To say “40 years ago people behaved differently, and while it doesn’t justify illegal activity, things were ‘ok’ back then, physical activity then vs now are viewed totally different”, is just being part of the problem. It was never “ok” to me. I don’t think it was “ok” to anyone that has been abused. These people who are being punished for their actions 30/40 years ago feel they did nothing wrong, because it was “ok”. People need to understand it is not and was not ever “ok”. So many lives were destroyed, young spirits dimmed. Many of us have gone on to live very successful lives, but don’t think just because we appear “fine” on the outside, that the abuse didn’t leave deep, lifelong scars.

Stop complaining and offer a solution. The solution is not to hide your head under a rock, look the other way, or use the excuse it happened years ago.

[comingback]

@Daventry

And I’m sorry, a 17 year old dating a 25 year old is considered statutory rape (if sex was involved) in most states and countries! A person under the age of 18 cannot consent to sex because they are not mature enough to make those kinds of decisions. I’m sorry but a 17 year old and a 25 year old have nothing in common. Just because everyone turned a blind eye to it 30 years ago doesn’t mean it was OK.

I think you would be unpleasantly surprised to find that 16 is the age of consent in some states, such as the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
https://www.ageofconsent.net/states

Not that I think it’s right from an ethical standpoint, just saying.

[Keep_it_Simple]

@atl_hunter

The issue with SafeSport is that it looks at the supposed act in 2019 terms when the act may have occurred 40 years ago. So, what was done may not have been illegal. It may have even been deemed okay by that standards of that time. But SafeSport rules don’t care about the law of the time, it cares only about the law of today and retroactively applies it.

For example, it was not uncommon even through the 80’s for a teenage gig school girl to date the older and more experience college boy. Under new legislation, he’d be in serious trouble if he engaged in sexual acts and was caught (in most states). At that time, however, it was not against the law and was not even frowned upon.

Under SafeSport, it doesn’t matter when the act occurred and what was the law or social notm
at the time. They apply today’s rules to events that occurred long ago that were not considered criminal or even inappropriate at the time, and that is where many of us have the problem.

Its a shame that Jimmy Williams did what he did. And Larry Nassar was equally disgusting. Molestation and manipulation of young athletes to control them is wrong and I’m glad that SafeSport exists to help those who are truly wronged. However, I think some of the situations are honestly not as devious as you describe and SafeSport has gone was overboard in the retroactive element. We can’t deny that historically (90s and prior) a lot of older men married or dated women under 18. I dated a 25 year old when I was 17 and everyone just loved him. He was a long time family friend. It wasn’t considered wrong for us to do whatever at that time. Now it would be. Society changed.

Going after some of these older cases, given the situation at the time, is really becoming quite the witch hunt. Not sure about you but I’m not really into destroying people over something that wasn’t considered wrong at the time, and SafeSport has the capacity to do just that. And that is where so many of us have an issue with it.

Carry on…

“Not wrong at the time” … sexual abuse of a minor has always been illegal. It was considered wrong 40 years ago.

In addition, many states allow civil and even criminal charges to be filed decades after the abuse occurred.

[fordtraktor]

I have been FB snooping. What I have seen about the actual facts here is that he was 18 and the girl was 16 in the incident before SafeSport. Parents knew about the relationship and were fine with it.

I hardly see that as “sexual abuse of a minor” or a “child molester” scenario. SMH.

[greysfordays]

@Denali6298

It’s the USEF and Safe Sport how Safe Sport investigates since most people for whatever reason freak out over going to the Safe Sport web site and NEED to hear it from the USEF.

Thats in BOLD as the title of the article.

If you want clarity contact Safe Sport. Not. That. Hard.

I don’t think it helps to be so dismissive. When I read the policies and procedures page of Safe Sport

https://safesport.org/policies-procedures

… it reads that if there is Alleged Sexual Misconduct, it is solely handled by SafeSport. If in Rob’s case, it was solely handed by SafeSport bc it was a sexual abuse case and they found him guilty then that’s good enough for me, he deserved the ban. Of course it makes my stomach turn, but the victims have to be believed above all else. In that case, I am deeply sorry for any of his victims. It took so much courage to come forward. If I offended anyone else, I’m so sorry.

I still worry about alleged emotional and physical misconduct cases, which USEF could get involved in according to SafeSport website. I’m probably being unfair to USEF, but there can still be a lot of emotional damage to a kid even if it’s not sexual in nature.

I would hope we could use this very high profile case to bring some education of the process, especially to the trainers who are crying foul. It’s all well and good to yell at folks on here to read up on the (limited) SafeSport website, but the trainers have a lot of sway.

If one of my trainers were blasting USEF today on FaceBook and something had happened to me in the past unrelated to this trainer, I would suddenly be more hesitant coming forward. Trainers bashing USEF is nothing new, that muscle is well-developed, but I worry the consequences here are problematic.

I don’t think SafeSport should name names of course, but a simple walk through of how they handled this investigation is going to make it much harder to argue that this was witch hunt. If we are going to root out the bad actors and protect the young and defenseless, we need industry wide buy in and it will take time to develop that trust.

[caffeinated]

@fordtraktor

I have been FB snooping. What I have seen about the actual facts here.

well… “Facebook” and “actual facts” rarely go together.

I’ve been seeing a lot of rumors flying around - people “close to RG” saying that there were criminal charges pending too, that there were ongoing issues involving minors, and all sorts of things ranging from benign to abhorrent. Without actual access to the entire investigation and all the findings, it’s likely even people close to the situation don’t know all the details.

[McGurk]

I find it…not credible… that this is about an 18 year old having consensual sex with his 16 year old girl friend 35 years ago. Even an 18 year old riding instructor having sex with a 16 year old student.

Other sources have mentioned that criminal charges were pending; which doesn’t seem like it would have been the case in the described scenario, or that it would it would have this kind of impact.

Also, some of the math doesn’t work. Rob Gage was 66, as far as I’ve been able to tell. 48 years ago; he was 18; 35 years ago, he was 31.

I understand that most of us are reasoning ahead of our data; but still.

And if killing horses for insurance money and wearing a wire to implicate your friends in the the scheme, plus a lifetime ban from showing aren’t career/livelihood ending; what on earth under the aegis of SafeSport would truly be career/livelihood ending? Certainly not consensual sex with a 16 year old.

[fordtraktor]

@caffeinated

well… “Facebook” and “actual facts” rarely go together.

I’ve been seeing a lot of rumors flying around - people “close to RG” saying that there were criminal charges pending too, that there were ongoing issues involving minors, and all sorts of things ranging from benign to abhorrent. Without actual access to the entire investigation and all the findings, it’s likely even people close to the situation don’t know all the details.

Sure, I agree with that. But I don’t think we should be quick to jump to any conclusion about someone’s guilt without any evidence at all.

[fordtraktor]

@McGurk

I find it…not credible… that this is about an 18 year old having consensual sex with his 16 year old girl friend 35 years ago. Even an 18 year old riding instructor having sex with a 16 year old student.

Other sources have mentioned that criminal charges were pending; which doesn’t seem like it would have been the case in the described scenario, or that it would it would have this kind of impact.

Also, some of the math doesn’t work. Rob Gage was 66, as far as I’ve been able to tell. 48 years ago; he was 18; 35 years ago, he was 31.

I understand that most of us are reasoning ahead of our data; but still.

And if killing horses for insurance money and wearing a wire to implicate your friends in the the scheme, plus a lifetime ban from showing aren’t career/livelihood ending; what on earth under the aegis of SafeSport would truly be career/livelihood ending? Certainly not consensual sex with a 16 year old.

None of the math works. Also lots of talk that this event was in the 70s. but that doesn’t work with the 30 year timeline because that would be the 80s. Who knows. We don’t, that’s my only point.

[MyssMyst]

@caffeinated

well… “Facebook” and “actual facts” rarely go together.

I’ve been seeing a lot of rumors flying around - people “close to RG” saying that there were criminal charges pending too, that there were ongoing issues involving minors, and all sorts of things ranging from benign to abhorrent. Without actual access to the entire investigation and all the findings, it’s likely even people close to the situation don’t know all the details.

This is honestly what bothers me. If the facts are that it was abhorrent? Bring it out. If it was really a benign scenario? Bring that forward too.

I concede that suspensions can be appropriate while an issue is investigated, but is there a way to handle that that doesn’t breed a cesspit of drama? Like maybe provisional suspensions are only disclosed to the NGB and parents of minors in their program? When we see it on the USEF side, there isn’t a clear indication of the severity of the issue. The rumor mill kicks off, and the speculation train leaves the station. This is what disturbs me. There isn’t ever a “this person was found innocent” blurb to help undo the damage.

I would like to see the process more closely resemble the legal system for the simple reason that these cases are usually going to be a legal issue beyond the safesport side of things. I think there’s a great opportunity for Safesport to push for improvement in how law enforcement handles these cases, but I really struggle to trust an organization that has this much power and influence without protections built in on both sides.

I’m seeing on FB that people weren’t allowed to testify. Maybe there’s a valid reason they weren’t. Maybe there isn’t. Even in here we have differing accounts of how situations were handled. I’m all for the concept, I’m not sold on the execution.

[Saskatoonian]

Without any evidence? He wasn’t at the beginning of the process: he was at the tail end. This flow chart makes it pretty clear: https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://77media.blob.core.windows.net/uscss/1550677317765.safesport_infographic_021919_v4.pdf .