Rob Gage

[Ghazzu]

@AllOverFarm

Are some people really thinking that hunters would break off from uset & start there own association? Truly?
I just don’t understand how this could work. The majority of the trainers/barn I know have both hunters & jumpers. It just doesn’t seem like having an all hunter show would work well long term for the average barn. Most of the hunter classes at the local A shows only have 5 or less entries now.

The “threat” is tossed about periodically, usually when somebody prominent gets caught doing something they oughtn’t.

The first time I recall it was when then AHSA tested the horses on the Florida circuit for reserpine and caught pretty much every BNT showing. Interestingly, the biggest complaint was “It’s not FAIR!!! You didn’t tell us you had a test for it!”
The threat was, that if they all got suspended, they’d break off and form their own association.

I’m still waiting…

[Tiramit]

USHA AKA Hunterland: a competitive equestrian community where anything goes. Join us if you’re a man, woman, animal abuser, criminal, or something else that panties in a wad other group hasn’t ousted yet. No questions, no judgment. We’re all welcome here to behave and win as we like.

[equestrian_mom1]

@Denali6298

I don’t think being able to earn a living is a huge limitation of SS. It’s not a sentence handed down by a judge. A conviction in court doesn’t always have life time restrictions. Jim Gorgio plead his case down in CT and only had to register as a sex offender for 10 years.

The only way to ban someone from the entire industry is for people to care more about doing business with ethical people than winning. WE as clients have the power to “ban” them. Any further ban by SS, ie you can’t have horses and teach lessons for the local circuit, would be a serious overreach IMO.

Bingo! Denali6298 has it completely correct - the only way to ban someone from the entire industry is “for people to care more about doing business with ethical people than winning”.

With regards to questioning why someone has been temporarily sanctioned: [INDENT] [TABLE=“border: 0, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0”]
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[TD=“align: left”]When a complaint is received by The Center, a Temporary Suspension can be issued after an examination of three criteria: [LIST=1]

[I]The severity of the accusation. Mr. Henry’s example was that “a pat on the butt,” although inappropriate, does not rise to this level. In general, this involves sexual abuse of a child and the sexual abuse is conducted in a way to put other minors at risk.[/I]

[I]The sufficiency of evidence. This often comes in the form of multiple claimants.[/I]

[I]Whether there is relative risk to the participants and/or the community. In general, this comes because the accused is continuing to interact with or train minors.[/I] [/LIST][I] If these three criteria are met, the Temporary Suspension is issued in the form of a notification to the respondent and their sport federation. At that time, the respondent is offered a 72-hour window to ask for a hearing.[/I][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/INDENT]

This makes it 100% clear that anyone on the temporary sanctions list https://safesport.org/userviolations/search (enter “Equestrian” to narrow to this sport) has been placed on that list for sexually abusing minors.

It is great that this email was sent out. It clears up anyone attempting to hide behind the reason they were suspended.

A much larger issue is that those banned from USEF can still have access to minors in this sport. Through local shows, coaching, hanging around other trainers facilities, working odd jobs allowing them to remain around minors. Individuals ignore the sanctions and continue to show up at rated shows leaving show management at risk for not enforcing. This all points back to the need for every sport “industry” to do some self-policing.

A lot of local Hunter Jumper Associations and other clubs are now referring to the Safesport & USEF sanctions and enforcing them at their events and so they should. There is a duty to protect our young riders when it is known that someone is a predator.

If you know what someone has done, and choose to ignore reality and the severity of the situation and it happens to another young rider (and it will, it’s just a matter of time), you have chosen to protect the wrong people in sport.

[Tackpud]

@roseymare

My guess is that sport will now need to be classified.

Kind of puts horse activities in a bind with the existence of NCAA equestrian. IEA doesn’t seem to be involved with SS and it seems that they should be by the rules @poltroon posted.

I couldn’t find anything on the SS site in regards to non Olympic sports but it was late and I was on my phone.

Actually IEA goes along with SafeSport in that all their coaches have to take the training. Pretty sure they’re on top of the suspensions as well and are working to uphold them within their organization.

[Peggy]

Mary Babick addresses the secession issues here- https://www.theplaidhorse.com/2019/06/15/ushja-president-mary-babick-speaks-out-on-rob-gage-and-concerns-over-safe-sport/

Relevant quote from linked article.
“One of the popular reactions to this incident is that SafeSport killed Rob Gage therefore the USHJA must secede from USEF so that we do not have to be a part of SafeSport. What is your response to that?

Let me answer that in two parts. One: our minor athletes deserve protection and safety. We need a process for that whether it is SafeSport or something else that I do not know about at this time. I would suggest that people read the Ropes and Gray report about gymnastics, read about swimming and taekwondo. It is chilling. We can’t sweep things under the carpet like these sports did. We will eventually trip and fall over the mound of dirt.

No process in place is a bad idea and no one ever said we were a sport without a problem. We have to have a framework in place to protect our minors. All kids should have a safe place.

Two: I hear about seceding from USEF a lot. And, we have a few contingency plans in place if the Board of Directors decides that they want to go that way. It is very complicated, not undoable, but very complicated. The intricacies of our relationship with the USEF and our systems is something that I have spent ten years studying. You have to understand how all of the pieces work before you can effect change. Regulation and drug testing are big components. The jumper piece makes it very difficult because of the national/international competition conversation. Our jumper discipline requires that we be involved with the NGB and USEF is the NGB for jumpers.”

[roseymare]

@Tackpud

Actually IEA goes along with SafeSport in that all their coaches have to take the training. Pretty sure they’re on top of the suspensions as well and are working to uphold them within their organization.

Then is it not true that a person on the banned list has a team?

[ladyj79]

@roseymare

Then is it not true that a person on the banned list has a team?

If I’m remembering correctly, from 90 pages worth of material, so hopefully those who are more familiar with the situation can chime in

The trainer in Virginia has a barn? runs a barn?
the barn has an iea team.

The trainer was previously convicted in ny, and was maybe on the registry in new york, but is seemingly not on the registry in virginia.

there has been no safe sport ban on this particular individual, My guess is this is likely because his criminal actions have not been reported to them.

It seems the best steps for those more in the know would be to provide his name and previous convictions to both safe sport and the iea and let the process work.

[Texarkana]

The banned person with a team out of the barn is Mitch Steege of Massachusetts.

Here is his farm’s website advertising the team:

http://redacrefarm.com/redacre-compete.html

Here is the IEA webpage confirming Red Acre Farm has a team:

https://www.rideiea.org/hunt-seat/zone1/teams.html

Here is the USEF SafeSport list with his name on it:

https://www.usef.org/compete/resourc…port-sanctions

Now, it’s perfectly possible that the team does everything under his wife or daughter’s name. But seeing as how the farm advertises him, that is a problem in my eyes.

I don’t have any axe to grind with Mitch Steege. I came across this quite by accident when someone alerted me to the fact that several SafeSport banned trainers still have youth programs. All I know is that his name is on the SafeSport permanently ineligible list yet his farm still is listed as having an IEA team.

[Texarkana]

Also, I didn’t realize this to just now, River Chase Farm (Tom Navarro) is also still listed for Zone 3, but with a different coach name:

https://www.rideiea.org/hunt-seat/zone3/teams.html

River Chase does not mention the IEA team on their farm website that I saw.

[AllisonWunderlund]

IEA Region President and steward here (although not in the same Zone as the trainer(s) in question. This is the first year that we have been required to undergo SS training. The applications for coaches, teams, and riders for the 2019-2020 season just got released last week. I would assume that these trainers will not be approved as coaches for the upcoming season. But it will bear watching…

[Texarkana]

@AllisonWunderlund

IEA Region President and steward here (although not in the same Zone as the trainer(s) in question. This is the first year that we have been required to undergo SS training. The applications for coaches, teams, and riders for the 2019-2020 season just got released last week. I would assume that these trainers will not be approved as coaches for the upcoming season. But it will bear watching…

Thank you for weighing in. I hope to see this corrected going forward! :yes:

[roseymare]

Wonder about YEDA or the other western organizations. Breed associations as well?

I think sport will have to be defined.

[findeight]

No Olympic or NGB connection with the breed world but this has to be leaking out over there and since it pretty much mirrors guidelines that must be understood and signed off on by the vast majority of other people who regularly work with minors in any capacity, professional or volunteer, it’s about time.

[englishivy]

@roseymare

My guess is that sport will now need to be classified.

Kind of puts horse activities in a bind with the existence of NCAA equestrian. IEA doesn’t seem to be involved with SS and it seems that they should be by the rules @poltroon posted.

I couldn’t find anything on the SS site in regards to non Olympic sports but it was late and I was on my phone.

Just to clarify: Last spring I got an email from IEA saying that they encouraged all teams to ask their coaches to become SS certified.

This summer I received an email stating that all adult members for a team had to be SS certified. Since I was certified from renewing my USHJA trainers certification, I asked my daughter’s coaches if they would like me to be an additional adult member/volunteer for the team (my daughter rides with me but does IEA with other coaches because of teenage angst :lol: ).

In my Girl Scout troop, we have many adult volunteer members so that we can make it easier to do events, especially if a leader is sick or unavailable. So I’m not surprised that IEA is heading that way too.

[MHM]

@poltroon

Non-NGB organizations have a bit more leeway in how they interface with SafeSport, but the training and mandatory reporting aspects apply. The polices about limiting one-on-one interactions between adults and minors still apply.

Of course the original legislation is online as well.

Do the restrictions apply between minors and adults when the adult is not in a position of authority over the minor?

In other words, not trainer/student, but two students in the same barn, when one student is a minor and the other student is an adult.

[CindyCRNA]

@Ghazzu

The “threat” is tossed about periodically, usually when somebody prominent gets caught doing something they oughtn’t.

The first time I recall it was when then AHSA tested the horses on the Florida circuit for reserpine and caught pretty much every BNT showing. Interestingly, the biggest complaint was “It’s not FAIR!!! You didn’t tell us you had a test for it!”
The threat was, that if they all got suspended, they’d break off and form their own association.

I’m still waiting…

I don’t think I’ve seen that word in print in forever!! :lol: :lol:

[roseymare]

My gosh if they can’t keep up with the caseload they have now what happens when 100 other organizations are required to join? You have a myriad of activities that could be considered sports which are not under auspices of anything but a national organization…chess…frisbee golf…forensics…dance…fishing…etc etc.

[Ghazzu]

@roseymare

My gosh if they can’t keep up with the caseload they have now what happens when 100 other organizations are required to join? You have a myriad of activities that could be considered sports which are not under auspices of anything but a national organization…chess…frisbee golf…forensics…dance…fishing…etc etc.

I must have missed the part where fishing was added to the Olympic roster…

[roseymare]

@Ghazzu

I must have missed the part where fishing was added to the Olympic roster…

SS pertains to non-olympic sports as well see post# 1773

Which non-NGB sport organizations are required to comply?

Non-NGB sports organizations include those teams, leagues, camps, sports facilities, tournament hosts, churches, and schools that participate in interstate or international amateur athletic competitions, and whose membership includes any adult who is in regular contact with an amateur athlete who is a minor.

The reach of the federal act is limited to organizations that are engaged in interstate or international commerce or activities. Interstate competition refers to sports organizations that travel across state lines to compete. But even those that do not travel across state lines are indirectly impacted by the act because it sets a new standard of care that will likely apply to all organizations. Most states will also move to pass state-specific legislation that directly applies to sports organizations that do not cross state lines.

[skydy]

@roseymare

My gosh if they can’t keep up with the caseload they have now what happens when 100 other organizations are required to join? You have a myriad of activities that could be considered sports which are not under auspices of anything but a national organization…chess…frisbee golf…forensics…dance…fishing…etc etc.

Any club where students participate outside of the school grounds and are supervised by an adult/coach/teacher, in my humble opinion, needs to follow the guidelines.

Again, it is not difficult to follow SafeSport rules and the protection of children infinitely outweighs any slight (and it is a slight) inconvenience for the adults involved.

Here is the story of our local Chess Teacher/child molester. Note the number of years this man was able to abuse his students. https://www.denverpost.com/2010/03/3…t-of-children/