How will they address the issue of the “wife” or “assistant trainer” being the named coach but still technically the banned person doing all the heavy lifting (and presumably heavy petting) at home? I understand you can’t police everything but that is a very obvious loophole.
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This…it’s not hard! It’s not rocket science and I’d bet all those outraged pearl clutches on Facebook would be screaming for “justice” if it were their child! I will bet dollars to donuts, each and every one of them are still bringing their outraged, misguided, pompous selves to horse shows next year! Like many of you…I too have lost a lot of respect for names I’ve recognized…seriously, what will it take for them to “get it?”
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While IEA can’t do more than prevent a person from attending a show, they can educate. IEA is pretty active with educating parents and riders. Once parents learn about the SafeSport mission they will start to ask questions of their trainers (I hope).
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This is where the aiding and abetting rules in SafeSport come into play. I imagine you could file a report just like with any other concern/suspicion.
But I think most of us would not report on a situation we know nothing about. I mean, just because I Googled that these guys have teams out of their farms, I’ve never been there. I’m not going to file a report from afar. Yet I will make noise about it to try to flush out some more info and raise awareness so that people in the know can report if indeed students are being left alone in the presence of a banned individual…
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You clearly were never a live-in working student or had to travel with trainer to shows as a kid. My summers living with my trainers were absolutely invaluable. My private communications with them regarding life advice, dating advice and of course horse advice were irreplaceable. I am sad these opportunities will not be available to future generations.
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My trainer has never allowed kids to travel unaccompanied with her! She’s not a baby sitter…parents or a parent have to be there…always! I also didn’t ride as a kid I was an elite gymnast that travelled all over the world WITH a parent in tow…but let me tell you THAT is one sport that I experienced first hand mental and physical abuse! Luckily for me, never sexual but damn right I’m glad safe sport exists today! KIDS should NOT be traveling alone…never…nor in my mind working! A 17 year old is much different to a child! And an adult still cannot have sexual contact with a 17 year old but safe sport isnt there to stop the working student…seriously! It’s there to stop an adult ABUSING a minor!
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And for every good experience like yours, how many other working students ended up in situations that were abusive in one way or another? Are you really saying that we shouldn’t be adding additional protections for young people who end up in potentially abusive situations just to preserve the experiences of those who are lucky enough to end up in good situations?
I am happy that future generations will have some protections against those abusive situations.
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Here we go again. I’m sorry for my exasperation. But nothing in SafeSport prevents these opportunities from being available to future generations. I don’t know how else to say this other than to flat out tell you that you are overreacting.
These type of things aren’t gone forever. It’s about developing a system where no adult is placed in an uninterruptible situation with a minor where there are no witnesses.
As an education, you learn to CYA. For example, my students come to me ALL THE TIME for private conversations. How do I handle it? I leave my door propped open, or if the door needs to be closed, I position myself in front of the window. Or we go to a “public” place where there are witnesses, like a bench in an open courtyard with passerbys. I message parents if it is happening so frequently that it might raise suspicion-- not to disclose secrets, but to say, “hey, I just want to make you aware that so-and-so is struggling with some personal issues at school.” Applying this to a barn setting, I would still message the parents if happening frequently, and hold the conversations in the most public part of the barn instead of behind closed doors. “Let’s go sit on the bench out front.”
On trips, I try not to be alone with a student: the goal is more than one adult or more than one student. It doesn’t always work that way. If I have to be alone, I try to tell someone in advance, preferably in writing, which can be an email or text. Just a “heads up” to make sure everyone is aware I am alone with a student. It can be as simple as a quick email to my boss and/or the parents: “Hi, just a reminder X and I will be driving to destination tomorrow.”
Sharing housing is more challenging. I think the easiest answer is to not accept a single, minor working student to live on-site. Either only provide housing to those over 18, or if you need minors to live on-site, always make sure you have more than one minor working student and preferably another adult.
SafeSport isn’t going to hunt people down for no reason. In Mary Babik’s letter (see post #1745) she also puts the rest the idea that benign reports are resulting in suspensions.
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I agree it is just how can this one organization handle it all without more support- financial and otherwise? One that purportedly only expected reports in the double digits. Unless they have more support or definitions they will be hamstrung in their mission.
What part of my one-on-one mentoring example that I referenced are YOU not getting? It was invaluable to me as a jr. Do you really think trainers in huge barns like Heritage for example who take 75-80 horses to a show have time to make sure every single safesport i is dotted and t is crossed? The answer is they don’t which means they will hire employees and the days of the working student (and therefore the days of amazing yet maybe less financially well-positioned riders) are slowly fading into the darkness. Look, I ride with a BNT. It has already been discussed: no more working students, and no more giving a ride to a pony kid to the vet or the feed store etc to let them see other parts of the horse business. It’s a shame. I see a need for SafeSport. I just don’t agree with how it is being implemented. I also think a lot of people in this thread aren’t dealing with huge AA show barns or know how they function and operate. I can see how these guidelines would be much simpler to implement at the C show or smaller barn level. Go ahead and come at me with your guns ablazing for saying that … seems to always happen when that subject is mentioned. But to be frank I believe that is why the disconnect among the crowd on here vs Facebook … those trainers you all are reading on Facebook are concerned about the practicality of SS and its implications for current working students and pony kids in a big show barn setting. That’s my point of view too.
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The bigger the barn ( like the example you gave of Heritage). The more people are around. It seems like a barn like that would have a much easier time implementing the SS rules.
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I may also be the minority here, but I agree with everything you stated. My daughter’s years as a live in working student were invaluable.
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So why it seems we don’t get it is that most of us here work for an employer that is MUCH bigger than any AA barn. Policies similar to Safe Sport are complied with so, the argument that the AA barn doesn’t have time because they are so big does not hold water.
Is the AA barn going to have to make some changes with how they do business? Yes. That’s the point. Are they too busy? Doubt it. Many of us here put in the hours that a BNT does, plus ride and show our horses, plus life, plus comply with similar policies. They have the time. They are unwilling to make the time.
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And I’ll ask you the same questions I asked APirateLooksAtForty, who declined to answer them.
[I]And for every good experience like yours, how many other working students ended up in situations that were abusive in one way or another?
Are you really saying that we shouldn’t be adding additional protections for young people who end up in potentially abusive situations just to preserve the experiences of those who are lucky enough to end up in good situations? [/I]
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Holy crap. Wow. So, what you sound like is that keeping minors safe FROM SEXUAL ASSAULT AND ABUSE is too inconvenient so SS should just be done away with. Who cares if a few people get assaulted? MY experiences were great and invaluable so boo hoo to the person whose trainer raped them repeatedly when they were 15. I got invaluable life experiences!
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So basically, your argument against SafeSport is that implementing its guidelines means that the horse industry is going to have to change (Oh No!) in order to meet the same standards of behavior that every other youth sport, school, and athletic training operation in the country is expected to meet?
Yeah, I get it. Change is scary. That’s not a valid reason to refuse to change, especially when there is overwhelming evidence that the change is needed.
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And that the change is to prevent sexual abuse of minors. That’s what is getting to me, people who stating that it is “inconvenient” are basically ignoring why safe sport is needed. Let’s just keep sweeping abuse under the rug. I had it good, no one fondled me so what’s the fuss? -Wow.
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In 10 years if your daughter comes to you and tells you she was abused, will you still feel the same way?
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Yes, it can be done, but for many trainers/barn owners it will not be worth it. I predict that many working student opportunities will disappear for students under 18. And this will be the case even when the trainer/barn owner and student are both female. If the trainer/barn owner is male, with the presumption of guilt that seems pervasive, it will be far more risky to have a working student under 18 (of either gender).
I don’t believe that SafeSport will hunt down people for no reason. The problem occurs when there is some other accusation. If there is another accusation, any violations of the prevention policies will be used as “evidence” to establish a pattern that will contribute to a presumption of guilt (at a preponderance of the evidence level). Remember, at a preponderance of the evidence level, the decision-maker is not remotely sure of the decision - they just think it is more likely than not (51% probability).
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Reactions like this (can’t teach kids about the feed store! No more working students!) sound like the men who see #metoo and respond “what, so I can’t talk to women anymore?!”
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