Roles and jurisdiction

[AMWookey]

I wanted to create a second topic about rules and responsibilities of governing bodies when it comes to equine abuse.

I was surprised to learn that the USEF has zero jurisdiction over an incident with a USEF member, declared professional, abuses an animal. I never looked at the rules that closely as it pertains to abuse bc honestly, I’m not going to hit my horse, and I will (and have) left trainers that rode more aggressively then me. Also, Canadian despite all my competition time being in the US.

I’m glad that rule is changing. Because by the sounds of it, regardless if you compete at advanced level eventing, or upper levels of other disciplines - as long as you don’t do it at a show, if you don’t compete in FEI events, there is no recourse?

Is this the same in Canada and the UK and other nations? Oh, someone is beating their horse bloody at home, but they don’t compete internationally, so not much we can do, call animal control?

I’m going to do my own digging tonight after work, but no wonder we have so many issues if this is what we have to work with

[alyssaequestrian]

I was wondering this as well. I understand that USEF has no grounds to “fine” an individual who’s actions took place outside of a USEF competition, but you cannot tell me that USEF does not have the ability to suspend them from participating in competitions going forward as the investigation occurs.

Not to compare the offenses, but they have no problem suspending those under investigation for Safe Sport until a decision is made.

Also, what happens when this issue comes up with hunter riders, breed shows, etc, that have no affiliation with the FEI? The USEF was so quick to pass this to the FEI, which in this case it would apply, but a hunter rider with an FEI suspension would be pointless.

[trubandloki]

My question is - why bother having a code of conduct that members have to agree to if you are not going to do anything with it?

[AMWookey]

And the latest which is “no video, no case”

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I saw that too. From more than one person online.

There are plenty of crimes or civil torts that happen that aren’t caught on video… but other evidence is compiled (such as sworn witness statements), and a judgement on the matter can be made.

I know everyone is attached to their smartphone these days and videos everything… but the position that “if it isn’t caught on video it didn’t happen” … that just seems absurd.

I was pretty shocked to see an upper level professional claim that they made a complaint about abusive conduct occurring ON A SHOW GROUND to an official, and the official claimed that if there wasn’t video evidence they couldn’t do anything?!? There were events from 1960-2000 before everyone carried smartphones everywhere. What did officials do back then when someone complained about abuse on the show grounds?

[Willesdon]

The British Equestrian Federation, the overarching UK governing body with 19 constituent organisations including British Eventing, launched a Charter for the Horse in March 2024. This is to ensure the very best standards and excellence in the care, treatment and use of horses based on six key areas: empathy, care, respect, consideration, ethics, learning. Rules in all the disciplines are being changed and updated to take account of the stated requirements and these will be published in 2025. It is not just in competition but in all sport, hobby or leisure activities, amateur as well as professional. Look up www britishequestrian.org.uk/ethics

[Jealoushe]

@AMWookey

Is this the same in Canada

They’re too busy making sure broke trainers have paid their hundreds of dollars a year to coach at shows

[Jealoushe]

I’ve become accustomed to pull my phone out now at the slightest incling anything might happen, everywhere. Last year I caught a guy beating up his gf, called the cops and when the officer arrived I transferred her the video. Case closed.

[coffeehag]

I’m perhaps going to sound crazy (and I’m obviously not the most educated on this topic) so bear with me. But this whole situation seems to me to highlight the nightmarish set up of USEA/USHJA/USDF and USEF. We (members/competitors) are paying fees out the wazoo to all these different orgs at every. single. recognized. event. only for USEF to throw their hands up when a member is committing abusive acts and say “ope, not our jurisdiction!”

While I understand it didn’t occur at a USEF show, is McCannon not a USEF member? Should that not be enough? I’m aware they rewrote the rule, but I don’t understand how this glaring loophole has stood for so long.

I’ve long harbored frustrations of there being eighteen (exaggerating) different orgs that we have to be members of, but IMO, this is why it’s such a problem. None of the hands are aware of the aware, shit like this “slips through the cracks” and each for one reason or another is happy to pass the buck on to someone else.

[Happyhack]

I don’t think many national federations have the scope in their statutes/rules to discipline members for horse abuse on private properties or at clinics. One of the very few I have heard of that does is Denmark, though they have made a mess out of the Carina Kruth case (dressage team member who was the subject of a whipping video at the Helgstrand center, a few weeks before Dujardin.) The disciplinary panel of the Danish federation gave her a small fine; there was then public outcry and even the government got involved, so the main board of the Danish NF re-judged the case and suspended her for 8 months, which she has said she is going to appeal according to Eurodressage. Denmark has strong animal protection laws, and stories about horse abuse in top sport appear in their national media frequently. The national media in Denmark and also Sweden and Norway has been intensely interested in Helgstrand for a long time, way before the “Operation X” TV expose.

[beowulf]

What I want to understand is why on earth there is a fee associated with filing a complaint/concern about something that is literally under their jurisdiction.

Is that not what our MEMBERSHIP fees are for?!

[ghst13]

I believe the fee is intended to limit frivolous complaints and discourage people from using the system to act out personal grudges.

It’s something that should be re-examined to see if it is discouraging valid reports.

[beowulf]

Its very system discourages valid reports. The ones most likely to make reports are the ones with boots on the ground, the exploited working students who often aren’t even paid for their slave labor, and don’t even have a pot to p### in.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

It seems quite clear after this latest story that USEF doesn’t want to receive any reports…

[Cowboy_Girl]

Butting in a with a phone camera or to video is not always an appropriate thing to do. If you video me, my family or my horse without my permission there will be a problem.

[Mondo]

@beowulf

Is that not what our MEMBERSHIP fees are for?!

Nope. Our membership fees are for sending to top riders to international competitions - that’s all they’re for (non profit remember). They don’t give 2 shits about the people in the grass roots who are paying for all these abusive hacks. I think, we, the membership need to make a big freakin’ deal out of this. All of these organizations have bylaws. If someone is breaking the rules that they agreed to, they should be kicked out of the organization, simple as that. Who cares whose “jurisdiction” it is? Don’t kick it upstairs to the FEI, kick him out of USEF, kick him out of USEA, and the FEI can take care of itself. Just my not very HO.

[Annie10]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

I saw that too. From more than one person online.

There are plenty of crimes or civil torts that happen that aren’t caught on video… but other evidence is compiled (such as sworn witness statements), and a judgement on the matter can be made.

I know everyone is attached to their smartphone these days and videos everything… but the position that “if it isn’t caught on video it didn’t happen” … that just seems absurd.

I was pretty shocked to see an upper level professional claim that they made a complaint about abusive conduct occurring ON A SHOW GROUND to an official, and the official claimed that if there wasn’t video evidence they couldn’t do anything?!? There were events from 1960-2000 before everyone carried smartphones everywhere. What did officials do back then when someone complained about abuse on the show grounds?

Same thing they do now apparently. Nothing.

[Annie10]

@Cowboy_Girl

Butting in a with a phone camera or to video is not always an appropriate thing to do. If you video me, my family or my horse without my permission there will be a problem.

Good luck with that. You have no expectation of privacy in a public place , like a horse show

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

You have a point.

[jcc813]

I’m also curious why USEF did not CC USEA when they punted the issue to the FEI? Shouldn’t USEA have at least been informed?

According to Rob Burke’s quotes in the EN article, no one from USEA had any knowledge until the social media posts were shared. And apparently they actually could have taken some action if they had known (whether or not they really would have…).