Rolex Live Stream/Results/Comments thread

[ACMEeventing]

[QUOTE=LadyB;8644983]
Just watched ML and Demeters round on cross. The mare looked good in the beginning, I was hoping her schedule was going to work for her, but clearly it did not at all. The horse was quite exhausted by the 8 minute mark, ML was having to chase her Then she trotted after the angled cabins, true sign she was tired, then the fall came after. The horse was just tired.

Back to the drawing board for them.[/QUOTE]

Seeing her in person, I am saddened she didn’t pull up or get pulled. The horse was knocking everything from The Hollow on. She was exhausted at the new water and the table afterwards, and I said to my friends I didn’t think she would finish the course. Then she absolutely climbed over the double barns by the Normandy Bank and fell shortly after.

The footing was arduous and it absolutely contributed to the fatigue factor, but pressing a tired horse is covered in one of our intermittently enforced rules . . .

[runNjump86]

[QUOTE=LadyB;8645080]
yes he’s 17, I don’t expect him to ‘get over it’ but I do think he has more time in him.
He’s a horse that is either all in or half in, has always been that way. Its really up to Allison if she wants to play the 50/50 game. I still think he’s fabulous to watch.

If he’s spooky at ditches, even by the end of the course, then Allison should be aware of this, which she is, which I would think she would ride more aggressive. As he went into the coffin, she almost just sat there and let them lose the steam as he was being ditchy. He was still going, but then she just stopped riding the out. I really don’t think he was the reason he didn’t jump the C element. But thats just me, sitting behind a screen watching. I can’t say what exactly happened, but to me, she just stopped riding the out, and of course he had nothing left to get over the out :([/QUOTE]

He’s fabulous to watch…when he’s got his game face on. This weekend he didn’t want to play after dressage and it was obvious. The footing wasn’t great but it wasn’t as awful as last year. He looked like he was going to be fine in the coffin, until he decided at the last minute to spook at it and pitched her forward. She didn’t have enough time to recover.

Does anyone believe she would still be pushing him to be a 4* horse if she had another UL horse that was sound and competing? I don’t, personally. They have had a long partnership and she wants to be on a team badly, but I honestly think if she had another horse Arthur wouldn’t be at this level anymore simply because of his quirks and how much work he takes on his off days. Like the commentator said, she was riding every. single. stride. of XC. Now obviously at that level you have to ride every stride, but not in the same sense.

[LadyB]

I agree with your whole post runNjump86.

ACMEventing, I couldn’t make out the tables too much, but it definitely looked like a struggle. Of course the footing was a HUGE factor, not as bad as last year, but yes, she had less runs this spring, and with that footing, she just couldn’t do it. I really love Demi, she’s a go getter mare, very lovely to watch, but sad with ML’s choice to keep pushing.

I’d be interested to know what KOC had to say while she was running. Not sure if KOC was commentating at that time, but definitely would be curious.

[Highflyer]

[QUOTE=runNjump86;8645134]
He’s fabulous to watch…when he’s got his game face on. This weekend he didn’t want to play after dressage and it was obvious. The footing wasn’t great but it wasn’t as awful as last year. He looked like he was going to be fine in the coffin, until he decided at the last minute to spook at it and pitched her forward. She didn’t have enough time to recover.

Does anyone believe she would still be pushing him to be a 4* horse if she had another UL horse that was sound and competing? I don’t, personally. They have had a long partnership and she wants to be on a team badly, but I honestly think if she had another horse Arthur wouldn’t be at this level anymore simply because of his quirks and how much work he takes on his off days. Like the commentator said, she was riding every. single. stride. of XC. Now obviously at that level you have to ride every stride, but not in the same sense.[/QUOTE]

She loves him, I think is the main thing. I don’t think there was much chance of him being selected for the team regardless of his finish, and I’m sure she knew that as well, but-- she loves him, and he’s still one of the most talented horses in the world if he would just keep his sh*t together three days in a row, so I get why she has kept trying.

[Xctrygirl]

[QUOTE=LadyB;8645157]

I’d be interested to know what KOC had to say while she was running. Not sure if KOC was commentating at that time, but definitely would be curious.[/QUOTE]

She said something along the lines of “Arthur that is NOT the first ditch you’ve ever seen”

Moreover they both (Karen and Gina) sounded like I’m sure we did. Not shocked, but horrified for Allison and ashamed of Arthur…again.

Em

[LadyB]

[QUOTE=Xctrygirl;8645179]
She said something along the lines of “Arthur that is NOT the first ditch you’ve ever seen”

Moreover they both (Karen and Gina) sounded like I’m sure we did. Not shocked, but horrified for Allison and ashamed of Arthur…again.

Em[/QUOTE]
I meant with ML, not Arthur, sorry for the confusion. I made sure to watch Athur go live, because I was really rooting for her. Didn’t watch ML live, but just watched the replay on USEF Network, which doesn’t have commentating.

[goodmorning]

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8645159]
She loves him, I think is the main thing. I don’t think there was much chance of him being selected for the team regardless of his finish, and I’m sure she knew that as well, but-- she loves him, and he’s still one of the most talented horses in the world if he would just keep his sh*t together three days in a row, so I get why she has kept trying.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. He is an excellent horse, but Mr. Reliably Unreliable. He’s been sound that majority of his career & looked fantastic at the Rolex jog; a testament to not only how lovingly he’s been cared for but again, part of what makes his so awesome. What makes you kick on :yes: When he is good, he is very very good, and when he is bad, he is very very disappointing…

Compare him to Mandiba, a completely different type of unreliable.

[kcmel]

[QUOTE=Divine Comedy;8644685]

Lord Helpus, I am pretty sure it is not jump judges, as at PF, both of the riders who should have had MR originally were recorded as such on the EventEntries, but changed to an RF later on. Similarly, you can hear on the video for Colleen today that the jump judge clearly said the horse was down, yet it was recorded as a RF on the live scoring. I only mentioned jump judges because I really don’t know at what point the system is failing and it seemed safest to examine the entire reporting system.[/QUOTE]

It is the jump judge that makes the call, and then the FEI official will come discuss the incident with them. I had 3 falls at a corner I was judging at the CIC** at Plantation a few years ago. I had to fill out a form for every fall and describe what happened. If there was a discrepancy I would think it would have turned up during the discussion with the FEI official, in that perhaps the jj did not know the precise definition of a horse fall, which is very specific. I can’t imagine it would have been changed from what the jj wrote in the report.

[Larksmom]

I used to think he should just be taken out and shot, [not literally], and be done with it all, but since actually watching him on line, I have begun to see why she sticks with him. I would like to see him in a pure dressage class with others at his level. Even a kur! He is such a good mover. If she could do a kur, with music especially tuned for him, it could be really fun.

And I know he isn’t GP, but way back in the way back, when kurs were new, I did one on my training level mare. We were fairly talent free but it was SO much fun.
the judge told me the choice of music was great, and we stayed with it well, just not accurate. Think opposite fro MJ!

oh, btw, the music was from Beethoven’s ninth. I cannot tell what movement, but I think it was played in a clockwork Orange.:eek:

[Bensmom]

[QUOTE=runNjump86;8645134]

Does anyone believe she would still be pushing him to be a 4* horse if she had another UL horse that was sound and competing? I don’t, personally. They have had a long partnership and she wants to be on a team badly, but I honestly think if she had another horse Arthur wouldn’t be at this level anymore simply because of his quirks and how much work he takes on his off days. Like the commentator said, she was riding every. single. stride. of XC. Now obviously at that level you have to ride every stride, but not in the same sense.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think it has been mentioned yet, but Allison has tried to bring in some additional UL horses and looked to have a great potential partner in Lionheart, and lost him due to complications from colic surgery. I was just gutted for her when that happened, as 4* horses and the funds to purchase them are not easily replaced.

Someone asked about Mr. Sydney Rocks – he apparently started out this year at Advanced, but her website doesn’t show what else he’s done this year.

I’m always one for believing in a difficult horse, and I admire Allison for sticking with and believing in Arthur, but this past weekend I got the feeling he wanted to be a dressage horse.

With all the rails flying on Sunday, what are the collective thoughts on the fact that at most CICs now, they are running in the SJ first format, so the horses don’t have as much experience jumping tired?

[Madison]

Home from the Rolex weekend and recovering. I went into the weekend already convinced Lauren Kieffer’s riding was amazing, and came away even more impressed with her than I already was. She and Veronica absolutely deserve a spot on the Olympic team, and her XC trip with Patrick was just fluid and beautiful as well.

Did anyone read or hear anymore about why Holly Payne Caravella’s horse Never Outfoxed was spun? Had to be heartbreaking for her. We only watched the live stream of the jog, but to us he sure looked better than some that were accepted . . .

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

[QUOTE=Madison;8645217]

Did anyone read or hear anymore about why Holly Payne Caravella’s horse Never Outfoxed was spun? Had to be heartbreaking for her. We only watched the live stream of the jog, but to us he sure looked better than some that were accepted . . .[/QUOTE]

Didn’t even go to Rolex but also recovering from a week-end being more or less glued to the streaming and coverage.

Practical Horseman’s postcard from Nancy Jaffer has a little bit about the situation with Never Outfoxed.
http://practicalhorsemanmag.com/article/postcard-2016-rolex-kentucky-jumping-52917

Basically, the article says the jury saw something in the hind end, Holly says his RH has always been slightly weaker, DOC says he “strongly disagrees”, Marilyn Payne says she is “very surprised”.

Very interesting to watch the USEF network video of the jog where the camera zooms in on the holding box vet who is conferring with the ground jury and the other vet - you can see the holding box vet kind of shrug her shoulders a couple of times. Anybody read lips?

[runNjump86]

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8645159]
She loves him, I think is the main thing. I don’t think there was much chance of him being selected for the team regardless of his finish, and I’m sure she knew that as well, but-- she loves him, and he’s still one of the most talented horses in the world if he would just keep his sh*t together three days in a row, so I get why she has kept trying.[/QUOTE]

I know all too well how hard it is to love a horse that keeps letting you down. The emotional rollercoaster is exhausting. Arthur is brilliant, and she has done so many great things with him, my heart breaks for her. His turnout and soundness are amazing, but how much heartbreak can she take?? That’s a question only Allison can answer. She knows the horse better than any of us, but damn…

[LadyB]

[QUOTE=runNjump86;8645244]
I know all too well how hard it is to love a horse that keeps letting you down. The emotional rollercoaster is exhausting. Arthur is brilliant, and she has done so many great things with him, my heart breaks for her. His turnout and soundness are amazing, but how much heartbreak can she take?? That’s a question only Allison can answer. She knows the horse better than any of us, but damn…[/QUOTE]

Ditto and that’s only at training level for me! haha.

I had totally forgot about Lionheart, she barely had him. That was heartbreaking!! I do wish she was given more of a chance, I think she’s done exceptionally well with Arthur and wish to see her have more of a string of horses.

[WasthatC]

[QUOTE=LadyB;8645157]

ACMEventing, I couldn’t make out the tables too much, but it definitely looked like a struggle. Of course the footing was a HUGE factor, not as bad as last year, but yes, she had less runs this spring, and with that footing, she just couldn’t do it. I really love Demi, she’s a go getter mare, very lovely to watch, but sad with ML’s choice to keep pushing.

I’d be interested to know what KOC had to say while she was running. Not sure if KOC was commentating at that time, but definitely would be curious.[/QUOTE]

KOC was not in the booth during Demeter’s run. I re-watched the video and from a computer screen (so definitely w an arm-chair-sized grain of salt) it looked like ML should have pulled up many efforts before the fall. The horse looked very tired somewhere around the 5 minute mark and absolutely done before the up bank - so if a rider doesn’t put their hand up where were the Officials?

Safety & well being of the horse should be the first priority.

[Madison]

Thanks Groom&Taxi, I hadn’t seen that link. Heartbreaking situation for her, he sure didn’t look on the live stream like he deserved to get spun, at least from what you could see.

It was a shame about Arthur, but it is a testament to Allison’s riding that they got as far in the course as they did without a problem, because it was obvious the whole way around that he did not approve of the conditions. They are such a talented pair, but he is far too “reliably unreliable” for team consideration.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=ACMEeventing;8645113]
Seeing her in person, I am saddened she didn’t pull up or get pulled. The horse was knocking everything from The Hollow on. She was exhausted at the new water and the table afterwards, and I said to my friends I didn’t think she would finish the course. Then she absolutely climbed over the double barns by the Normandy Bank and fell shortly after.

The footing was arduous and it absolutely contributed to the fatigue factor, but pressing a tired horse is covered in one of our intermittently enforced rules . . .[/QUOTE]

Not even that - right out of the startbox and Demeter started lugging within three minutes in. Honestly, she looked exhausted well before she crashed. If you rewatch the video, you can see she’s already tired two minutes in. She was barely jumping some of the fences early on and I don’t even know that mare a fraction as well as ML does and I could tell that today was not her day. She just had no rally.

My hope is that people can learn to identify a tired horse like that, and prevent that type of riding in the future – to me, that qualifies as dangerous riding. The pair could have very easily gotten hurt or died. Was it on the official’s radar? She is supposed to be watched, given her past – and after watching her round I can say I no longer have any interest in supporting her pursuance in our sport, in any way. She could have killed Demeter.

[kcmel]

@Bensmom;8645198

Someone asked about Mr. Sydney Rocks – he apparently started out this year at Advanced, but her website doesn’t show what else he’s done this year.

He and Cascani are both entered in the CCI*** at Jersey.

[riderboy]

[QUOTE=Belmont;8644985]
They have all placed in the top ten and top three in numerous four stars. Boyd hasn’t won a four star since coming to America (I believe), but he did win the long format four start at Adelaide in Australia.

I don’t believe Buck has won a 4*, as of yet, but I didn’t go over his results with a fine tooth comb. If he had won one, I believe it would be on his career highlight reel. Phillip has one win at Rolex, but he also has multiple second place finishes at Rolex and the like.[/QUOTE]

I think it’s just frustrating to see US riders work so hard and have just as much talent but not be able to win. The Pan Ams are an exception but I mean the big 4 Stars, WEGs and Olympics. That kind of analysis is way above my pay grade, I just don’t know what’s missing.

[amastrike]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8645309]
Not even that - right out of the startbox and Demeter started lugging within three minutes in. Honestly, she looked exhausted well before she crashed. If you rewatch the video, you can see she’s already tired two minutes in. She was barely jumping some of the fences early on and I don’t even know that mare a fraction as well as ML does and I could tell that today was not her day. She just had no rally.

My hope is that people can learn to identify a tired horse like that, and prevent that type of riding in the future – to me, that qualifies as dangerous riding. The pair could have very easily gotten hurt or died. Was it on the official’s radar? She is supposed to be watched, given her past – and after watching her round I can say I no longer have any interest in supporting her pursuance in our sport, in any way. She could have killed Demeter.[/QUOTE]
Yup. And to think, before they went I was just hoping Demeter made it through without a bloody mouth. What I should have been hoping was that she made it through alive.