Rolex Live Stream/Results/Comments thread

[goodmorning]

[QUOTE=Groom&Taxi;8645239]

Basically, the article says the jury saw something in the hind end, Holly says his RH has always been slightly weaker, DOC says he “strongly disagrees”, Marilyn Payne says she is “very surprised”.

Very interesting to watch the USEF network video of the jog where the camera zooms in on the holding box vet who is conferring with the ground jury and the other vet - you can see the holding box vet kind of shrug her shoulders a couple of times. Anybody read lips? ;)[/QUOTE]

The least popular jobs out there, for sure! At least they all do what they feel is in the best interest of the horse. A very slight dip in the hind end can be a very big deal, if the horse needs a full lameness eval to jog it shouldn’t show jump. End of story. Pretty simple & have to give these people the benefit of the doubt. John Kyle and apparently everyone but the GJ knew Marilyn’s round was trending down much earlier, the mare was scraping over the fences. Nothing done. Very surprised they let Kyle Carter’s horse through the jog. Talk about pulling the head down & jogging on a short leash.

However, lets not focus on the negative - Rolex was awesome.

[Kwill]

I thought the Americans did very well – MJ is one of those super athletes, like Michael Jordan, they are just so much better than everyone else at it.

I also agree about Buck that it shows you can be a talented top rider in the sport and not have the ideal body type, if there is such a thing. It should be an inspiration to people who want to compete but maybe aren’t tall and skinny. And, obviously he is in shape so just because you carry a little more body weight doesn’t mean you are somehow a lesser person or can’t place at the highest level of sport.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

[QUOTE=riderboy;8645350]
I think it’s just frustrating to see US riders work so hard and have just as much talent but not be able to win. The Pan Ams are an exception but I mean the big 4 Stars, WEGs and Olympics. That kind of analysis is way above my pay grade, I just don’t know what’s missing.[/QUOTE]

How do you measure talent? Maybe MJ and WFP just have a smidge more?

It does seem to me that PD, Boyd, Buck may have larger business enterprises to manage than MJ and WFP - don’t know if that is the case or if it could explain the difference if it is.

I am hopeful for the US in the Olympics this year - given that it’s “not a proper 4*” we seem to have a lot of possible solid combinations for the team. Hopefully the selectors will pick the right ones. I don’t think it is likely that the US will bring home Gold, but some space on the podium would be nice.

[runNjump86]

[QUOTE=riderboy;8645350]
I think it’s just frustrating to see US riders work so hard and have just as much talent but not be able to win. The Pan Ams are an exception but I mean the big 4 Stars, WEGs and Olympics. That kind of analysis is way above my pay grade, I just don’t know what’s missing.[/QUOTE]

That’s the problem…they don’t have just as much talent. flame suit zipped

Lauren Keiffer’s XC ride was the only one that was even comparable to Jung. There were a LOT of riders who had really good rides, but Jung was pretty much flawless. LK is amazing and definitely inching closer to Jung, but he is so far above all of our US riders in dressage and SJ that it is very clear why he keeps winning and we do not. Allison’s dressage test was spectacular, but he still had several points on her.

I know it’s easy to say this as a Prelim-wannabe armchair critic, but our top riders need to get better if they want to win on our home turf and at international events. We’ve had several top placings, but we haven’t won in a few years. I have no idea how to fix that. More grants to send riders to Europe and Australia? More grants so our riders can take lessons from amazing instructors here in the USA, like Steffan Peters, Christine Traugig, Susie Hutchinson, or Hap Hansen? I don’t know. But there is a clear distinction between our top riders and Jung.

It is frustrating to see our riders getting better but still losing. It’s frustrating to see riders who are extremely talented, like Allison, not have the horse(s) that could be competitive on an international scale, or other riders who don’t get a second look because they don’t have a string. Like you, this is way above my pay grade and ability. These are just observations, so take them for what they’re worth.

ETA - G&T makes a very valid point…how do you measure talent. Maybe Allison, Laine, Maya, Matt Brown, etc have the talent, but it’s not getting enough grooming to really develop.

[Kwill]

As for Arthur, I think it’s a tough decision to not go because your horse might flake out, and miss the exposure for yourself (and possibly the enjoyment of 4 star), or go and hope he doesn’t have a bad day. Sadly, he did. She must know he wouldn’t be selected for the team, but she was still out there getting seen as a good rider with a difficult horse.

He was good in the dressage, anyway.

[riderboy]

[QUOTE=amastrike;8645363]
Yup. And to think, before they went I was just hoping Demeter made it through without a bloody mouth. What I should have been hoping was that she made it through alive.[/QUOTE]

Ouch!

[EventingChase]

I think Kim Severson’s ride was close to Jung’s until Sparky spat out the bit and didn’t want to play anymore. It was pretty much smooth and flawless. In some ways even better as Jung was working hard to get the mare out in front of him in some places. She responded but Kim’s was much more in sync.

He (Sparky) hasn’t been quite on his game since his return this spring. I wonder if something is still bothering him somewhere.

Get Kim on the right horse and she has every chance of winning.

[QUOTE=runNjump86;8645394]
That’s the problem…they don’t have just as much talent. flame suit zipped

Lauren Keiffer’s XC ride was the only one that was even comparable to Jung. There were a LOT of riders who had really good rides, but Jung was pretty much flawless. LK is amazing and definitely inching closer to Jung, but he is so far above all of our US riders in dressage and SJ that it is very clear why he keeps winning and we do not.[/QUOTE]

[Rallycairn]

[QUOTE=LadyB;8645032]
…

I absolutely love Tate and Sinead, but I never noticed how business Sinead really was on cross. Not once did I see her reward him, clearly that’s her style, but after watching Jung continuously pat his mare, Its sad to not see some others do it with a long term relationship horse. Clearly riders know their horses than us arm chair internet people. Just interesting to see how others go out and handle each jump.[/QUOTE]

I was strongly struck by the same thing – Sinead also gave no reward that I saw after showjumping and I thought her body language was interesting – not looking at him, looking up and away, etc. He started scratching his face on his leg after they were stopped outside the ring, and she still wouldn’t look down – she looked like she was dissociated from him. It was very noteworthy as a behavior (or lack of behavior) to me.

I don’t expect riders to whack their horses’ necks or shout effusive praise at all (though plenty do), but zero visible acknowledgement of effort stands out. I watched hours of coverage and Sinead was the only one that struck me that way. Am I saying she is a horrid person or rider or bad or any other thing you can name? No. Of course not. But her behavior was different from that of the other riders I saw and it really stood out to me.

[Kwill]

I was watching the individual rides with my husband, who is non-horsey, and we saw MJ’s ride, where he rides the ropes and really watches how he does the corners, and my husband said, “yes, he rides the corners like a race car driver.” Then we watched Lainey’s cam ride, and he asked, why does she just go in the middle? I didn’t have an answer.

I am no expert on any of it (far from it!), but that is a difference in the technique.

[Gestalt]

[QUOTE=Xctrygirl;8645039]
So how do we explain him being a ((Expletive ladden thoughts)) jerk in show jumping then?

Like Jimmy, I think I am just done with him. But not because he isn’t talented, but rather because he is but he disappoints all of us when we just start to believe in him.

Emily[/QUOTE]

In talking about Arthur, I’m starting to think that maybe he has been trying to say that eventing isn’t his gig. He has talent out the wazoo, but if his heart isn’t there maybe it’s wrong to keep pushing him. I was feeling the way you do, but now I’m starting to feel bad for the guy. We’re all piling on him for letting Allison down when it actually might be there other way around. I don’t know, I’m just putting that out there.

[runNjump86]

[QUOTE=Rallycairn;8645407]
I was strongly struck by the same thing – Sinead also gave no reward that I saw after showjumping and I thought her body language was interesting – not looking at him, looking up and away, etc. He started scratching his face on his leg after they were stopped outside the ring, and she still wouldn’t look down – she looked like she was dissociated from him. It was very noteworthy as a behavior (or lack of behavior) to me.

I don’t expect riders to whack their horses’ necks or shout effusive praise at all (though plenty do), but zero visible acknowledgement of effort stands out. I watched hours of coverage and Sinead was the only one that struck me that way. Am I saying she is a horrid person or rider or bad or any other thing you can name? No. Of course not. But her behavior was different from that of the other riders I saw and it really stood out to me.[/QUOTE]

He is known as the French Princess…maybe he gets distracted or offended? I missed her XC ride (unfortunately) but not showing praise after SJ would stand out to me as well.

[LadyB]

[QUOTE=Rallycairn;8645407]
I was strongly struck by the same thing – Sinead also gave no reward that I saw after showjumping and I thought her body language was interesting – not looking at him, looking up and away, etc. He started scratching his face on his leg after they were stopped outside the ring, and she still wouldn’t look down – she looked like she was dissociated from him. It was very noteworthy as a behavior (or lack of behavior) to me.

I don’t expect riders to whack their horses’ necks or shout effusive praise at all (though plenty do), but zero visible acknowledgement of effort stands out. I watched hours of coverage and Sinead was the only one that struck me that way. Am I saying she is a horrid person or rider or bad or any other thing you can name? No. Of course not. But her behavior was different from that of the other riders I saw and it really stood out to me.[/QUOTE]

We know she loves him through Facebook, she raves about him all the time and how awesome he is. I was definitely thrown back about how business she is. He LOOKED like just a ride for her to get around, obviously its more, but very business woman-like of her to act. I didn’t see the show jump, but I was sad that I didn’t see a relationship on the outside. I absolutely love them as a team, just seemed very business to me, and no emotion. Maybe they both work best that way, but even after SJ you would think there would be some love. Too bad

[soloudinhere]

[QUOTE=kcmel;8645310]
He and Cascani are both entered in the CCI*** at Jersey.[/QUOTE]

What happened to Copycat Chloe?

[WasthatC]

[QUOTE=runNjump86;8645436]
He is known as the French Princess…maybe he gets distracted or offended? I missed her XC ride (unfortunately) but not showing praise after SJ would stand out to me as well.[/QUOTE]
I’m probably biased because I’m a huge fan of her riding and horsemanship, but I think she gives him what she believes he needs on XC. He was clearly running out of gas at the end of XC and she coaxed him home. (That last corner was a little scary).
I can’t see her stadium (it’s video of Maya instead) but I believe she has a ton of love and respect for that horse, regardless of how the videos look from this weekend.
She strikes me as intensely competitive and maybe still has something to prove to the PTB after the London screw up.

[Lord_Helpus]

MJ, in addition to having an ungodly talent, also has a different method of training.

I think the article I read must have been in a mag. last year.

MJ’s family only own about 3 acres of land (but live next to a natural preserve for galloping). On that 3 acres, they have the stable, dressage ring, jump ring and over 20 x/c jumps – all built by himself, his brother and father.

When he rides, he does not do all of something on a given day. He will do dressage and jump some x/c jumps or stadium and dressage, etc.

He also spends every weekend, when not at an event, at either a show jumping show or a dressage competition. His horses are all trained and shown at least 1 (maybe 2) levels higher than they need for their level of eventing. They are judged by straight dressage judges and are expected to ride to the standards of that level test against other dressage horses.

I don’t believe that he is married ------ his horses and training them are the exclusive focus of his life. When I read the article, it reminded me of the Chinese or Russian children whose talent is identified at an early age, and are sent off to rigid schools where their entire lives are devoted to practicing and excelling at their sport.

I also believe that all is horses are bought young and trained from the ground up by himself or his family. No big $$$ buys to get on and ride a horse that someone else has started. So he understands every little nuance of each horse.

[TimelyImpulse]

[QUOTE=kcmel;8645187]
It is the jump judge that makes the call, and then the FEI official will come discuss the incident with them. I had 3 falls at a corner I was judging at the CIC** at Plantation a few years ago. I had to fill out a form for every fall and describe what happened. If there was a discrepancy I would think it would have turned up during the discussion with the FEI official, in that perhaps the jj did not know the precise definition of a horse fall, which is very specific. I can’t imagine it would have been changed from what the jj wrote in the report.[/QUOTE]

At Rolex, jump judges attend the mandatory brief on Fri night. You get a packet with the XC rules, plus officials are there and go over what and how to report refusals, falls of Rider and horse, and what constitutes each of those things. There is a chief judge for each team-- all jump judges must have documented experience to be assigned to a team. Every refusal is documented, and mapped out, and each member of the team is consulted as to what they saw at their vantage point. If a refusal occurs, it’s called in – the steward will come by, and ask the chief judge what occurred, will collect the documentation,.

After XC ends, all jump judges report to the visitors Center and wait until they are cleared by the officials to leave. We had a call at our fence challenged by the rider, so we ended up waiting until it was reviewed before being cleared to go.

Upon review, the officials decide how it is finally documented or scored.

[hopashore1]

[QUOTE=WasthatC;8645492]

I can’t see her stadium (it’s video of Maya instead) but I believe she has a ton of love and respect for that horse, regardless of how the videos look from this weekend.
She strikes me as intensely competitive and maybe still has something to prove to the PTB after the London screw up.[/QUOTE]

Keep watching the video, it switches to Sinead about 14 seconds in.

I think she was disappointed in the two rails, that’s all. I think I do see her give him one pat–hard to tell, camera is from the back and on the wrong side, but from what I can tell she’s quite competitive and hasn’t really been able to replicate her Burghley form a few years ago in the dressage. They’re clearly very capable of being right on top, but again for whatever reason just can’t consistently put the three phases together the way MJ, WFP, etc. have demonstrated.

I really applaud the riders that have their feet in straight dressage and show jumping. I know Lainey Ashker did some FEI dressage classes on a different horse in Wellington over the winter, and Doug Payne in particular has a small straight SJ string he does quite well with. I think it really shows in their riding.

[hb]

[QUOTE=Gestalt;8645433]
In talking about Arthur, I’m starting to think that maybe he has been trying to say that eventing isn’t his gig. He has talent out the wazoo, but if his heart isn’t there maybe it’s wrong to keep pushing him. I was feeling the way you do, but now I’m starting to feel bad for the guy. We’re all piling on him for letting Allison down when it actually might be there other way around. I don’t know, I’m just putting that out there.[/QUOTE]

Thank you! I’ve been thinking this the last few days. A

[hb]

[QUOTE=Gestalt;8645433]
In talking about Arthur, I’m starting to think that maybe he has been trying to say that eventing isn’t his gig. He has talent out the wazoo, but if his heart isn’t there maybe it’s wrong to keep pushing him. I was feeling the way you do, but now I’m starting to feel bad for the guy. We’re all piling on him for letting Allison down when it actually might be there other way around. I don’t know, I’m just putting that out there.[/QUOTE]

Thank you!

I’ve been thinking all weekend, Arthur is just a horse. He’s not intentionally “being bad”.

He’s 17 years old, has done, what, a dozen 4* events, including 6 or 7 times at Rolex? He’s athletic and talented, but doesn’t seem to really enjoy it. And he’s given a heck of a lot for not really loving the job.

Allison was using a lot of leg and a few pops of the whip on XC Saturday, contrasted with Rocana who was rollicking along having a great time.

Arthur has done plenty for a horse that seems to be just not into it. When the stars align his natural ability carries him to the top, but he doesn’t look like he has ever had the courage? drive? joy for the job? whatever that extra competitive edge is that would keep him consistent. He’s the one that was terrified of the statue/decoration in show jump at Rebecca in 2011 wasn’t he? Horses aren’t spooky to be bad - they are either honestly scared, sore somewhere and spooking is how they express that, or trying to avoid work that they do not want to do. You can’t make a horse like something that just isn’t their cup of tea, even if they are physically capable of doing it.

Seriously, Arthur’s not the one that sent the entry in to Rolex, he’d be just as happy to do straight dressage or just stand in a field hanging out with his buddies.

He’s just a horse.

[WasthatC]

[QUOTE=hopashore1;8645554]
Keep watching the video, it switches to Sinead about 14 seconds in.

I think she was disappointed in the two rails, that’s all.[/QUOTE]

Oh, patience? I’m so not good at that.

I watched her SJ round and I’m interpreting her body language as disappointed in herself. Mind you, I probably couldn’t make it over one of those fences clear but it looks like she chased him into their second rail and I think she felt that coming out of the arena. Also, she was talking to someone on her left as she came out so there isn’t a ton of video time there.

Again, I have a ton of respect for Sinead.