Rolex Live Stream/Results/Comments thread

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=amastrike;8646131]
You’re right, but… we already know that the rules don’t always apply to ML, so I have to wonder if there was any degree of turning a blind eye or giving her the benefit of the doubt. If it had been a different rider with an equally tired horse, would the officials have pulled them up? I’m not sure what’s worse, officials letting ML get away with pushing her horse too hard, or officials letting anyone get away with it.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, if it was a different rider it would have a different outcome. Behind ML is… KOC…

[JER]

[QUOTE=OverandOnward;8646206]

It is so interesting to me that the riders with strings of horses constantly coming along to 4* level are primarily male - PD, Boyd, Buck, etc. More of the women have only one, maybe two, they bring out to 4* level, year after year. I don’t quite know why this is…[/QUOTE]

I do. It’s called ‘sexism’. It’s deeply ingrained in our culture, and while equestrian sports present the veneer of equality – men and women do compete equally against each other – the same aspects of sexism that permeate business/sport/life can be found in eventing.

Men are better compensated and are given more credit and opportunities for the work they do, even when women do the same or greater work. Women earn less than men even in professions dominated by women. Etc. So it comes as no surprise that this is what happens in eventing.

[NCRider]

[QUOTE=amastrike;8646131]
You’re right, but… we already know that the rules don’t always apply to ML, so I have to wonder if there was any degree of turning a blind eye or giving her the benefit of the doubt. If it had been a different rider with an equally tired horse, would the officials have pulled them up? I’m not sure what’s worse, officials letting ML get away with pushing her horse too hard, or officials letting anyone get away with it.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, while Demeter didn’t look full of run from the start, she was visually jumping OK for most of the round. She only lost the jump around the 8 minute mark and there wouldn’t have been enough time to radio in and pull them up before the fall so I don’t think you can blame the officials. Jordan Lindstedt rode the slowest Rolex round I’ve ever seen a couple of years ago, but they were safe the whole way around I’m not sure how you pull up someone who is just slow.

On the video, it looked like Demeter hit the wall 2 fences prior to the fall. I wouldn’t have been comfortable being the person to pull them up before that.

I actually thought ML rode OK from a technical standpoint, I’m not seeing the bad riding that other people saw. She also didn’t seem to be going that fast at the beginning so I can’t imagine she was trying to make up time.

Where she exercised poor judgment was by bringing a less than fit horse to Rolex and by not being prepared to pull the horse up when the mare lost the jump. That possibility should have been in her head knowing what she knew about the mare’s less than ideal prep.
She’s lucky they didn’t get hurt from the fall. Hopefully she will learn from this and not let defensiveness block out the lesson.

[OverandOnward]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8646049]
they absolutely were calling 10, 5 and then every minute at the start. Especially if you asked. It’s the rider’s responsibility to know the time or to have someone there keeping track for them…especially if they planned to stay away. …[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Well said.

Maybe Marilyn was as innocent as she implied. Maybe if I had been there I would agree with her (bet not). Maybe my poor impression of what she said is unjustified.

But: Out of 56 riders, Marilyn was the ONLY ONE who left the start box late.

And: Why is it always something with Marilyn ??? It isn’t everybody, it’s just her.

As a starter’s assistant I’ve told riders at windy, hard-to-hear events that it is their responsibility to make sure they stay where they can hear the starter. And they did!

As the starter’s assistant who communicates the most with the riders, I can NOT leave my post to run up a hill and get a rider who is not where they can hear us. Because I’m also telling other riders “you’re next to go”, answering questions from other riders, trainers and helpers, and it also may not be possible to get back in time for the next rider. I would be surprised if that level of service was offered, even at Rolex.

I totally, completely get it that a horse may become wound up near the start, may need some quiet time. But geez, this is 4* eventing. Some things have to be dealt with.

It’s not like this is Marilyn’s first eventing rodeo. Like the importance of ‘start time’ was a big surprise.

I kind of blew a fuse when I heard Marilyn’s little story about why she was so late out of the box. Again - she was the ONLY one.

Re any chance of her being on an the Olympic team, and this is given that I actually think she’s a very good rider with very good horses, and might be an asset on the team - in the past. Not only are she and her horse obviously not ready, she is a behavior risk due to ill-considered actions. Nit-picky rules decisions at the Olympics are sometimes subject to erratic political bias, and it is just better to avoid rules conflicts at all possible costs. This is one more example of why I don’t think Marilyn can do that. She could jeopardize the entire team over something trivial that ends up having an impact out of all proportion to her scattiness.

[McVillesMom]

I was at fence 9 when Marilyn went through and I thought Demeter looked tired then. Which is not a huge surprise when your prep for Rolex is 2 intermediate HTs…

[OverandOnward]

BTW … for those who care … you can see Marilyn’s start in the on demand USEF replay. It is cut out of her individual xc video. But if you go to the USEF video site, search on “full” for the “full program” for XC … go to 3:09:00 … Klunick #52 is going out of the box and then she is on course for awhile … Marilyn #54 is shown trotting in w-u … then she walks and trots with no hurry down to the box until she’s right there with the starter crew energetically waving her through, then she picks it up … anyway, if you want a replay, I don’t know what is cut out, if that is everything, but there is that to see.

http://www.usefnetwork.com/featured/2016RK3DE/

[MNEventer]

[QUOTE=amastrike;8646131]
You’re right, but… we already know that the rules don’t always apply to ML, so I have to wonder if there was any degree of turning a blind eye or giving her the benefit of the doubt. If it had been a different rider with an equally tired horse, would the officials have pulled them up? I’m not sure what’s worse, officials letting ML get away with pushing her horse too hard, or officials letting anyone get away with it.[/QUOTE]

At this point, I’m beginning to suspect that ML could trot down the centerline with bell boots and polo wraps on all four of her horse’s legs and the officials would just shrug and not say anything. ¯_("/)_/¯

[frugalannie]

I’ve been listening to friends from various backgrounds who were either at Rolex or were watching intently on computers. Each and every one mentioned how Michael Jung stood head and shoulders over everyone else in every aspect of performance.

A friend who attended the first jog mentioned how many horses were, shall we say, “full of themselves”. Fischer Rocana, on the other hand, walked when MJ walked, trotted when he trotted and was perfectly behaved on a loose shank. There was no wasted energy.

Same person noted that his dressage test was super accurate and obedient, on a horse that doesn’t have flashy extensions and is not an exceptional mover. Many of the other horses were much fancier but were not ridden as accurately.

A dressage instructor who has plenty of experience commented on how his XC round differed from so many that she saw. It was forward but in control from departure from the start box, over every fence and all the way to the end. She commented on his economy of movement and his tactful support of the horse in each jumping effort unlike many other riders.

Another friend noted that he shaved seconds off his time by riding every line on the best possible trajectory, often quite close to the ropes, and how Rocana landed going after every jump.

Lauren Keiffer got high marks too, BTW. Didn’t have time to dissect any other rides with them yet.

I just throw this out there for comment if anyone wishes.

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=riderboy;8645350]
I think it’s just frustrating to see US riders work so hard and have just as much talent but not be able to win. The Pan Ams are an exception but I mean the big 4 Stars, WEGs and Olympics. That kind of analysis is way above my pay grade, I just don’t know what’s missing.[/QUOTE]

Well, 8 out of the top 10 were US at Rolex 2016 with places 2-6 US. US may not have won 1st, but they won at a greater percentage than their counterparts.

And who does beat MJ? He pretty much is winning against everyone, not just Americans.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

[QUOTE=2horseowner;8646149]
Speaking of tired horses, I thought Tiana’s horse looked gassed out and not fit at all.I also agree with LadyB, Laine looked like a fortune teller in that dress on Weds.![/QUOTE]

And she got a grant to come over and participate - doesn’t appear that money was well spent. Maybe horse didn’t travel well? Benefit of the doubt…

[Winding_Down]

@runNjump86;8645394

That’s the problem…they don’t have just as much talent. flame suit zipped

LK is amazing and definitely inching closer to Jung, but he is so far above all of our US riders in dressage and SJ that it is very clear why he keeps winning and we do not.

Correction, Jung is so far above all riders, not just US riders. Let’s compare apples to apples (US to others) rather than apples to an orange (US to a superhuman). :lol:

[Hannahsmom]

Can I just say HUGE kudos to usefnetwork? What fabulous videos, even with some blockage on XC by umbrellas. Not only the live feed but leaving up full videos after the fact as well as providing links to specific rides and leaving this up for a while to watch. Thank you!!

[goodmorning]

The horse that had that horrible round at Burghley, yet somehow wasn’t pulled up dispite crow comments & gasping, commentator remarks, was also owned by a well regarded FEI steward. Maybe this is a cultural problem, only difference I can say is one round was much further along. MLMs while watching on the live stream, which was bouncing back and forth, looked slow but not something I’d pull up until 5 fences before. It could have been coming…but again that’s live stream which wasn’t devoted to her, however the jump judges & stewards are also extremely busy…

I wonder, if MLM knew she wasn’t prepared & this whole clock thing was a distraction. Sounds crazy, just withdraw your horse, no shame in that it’s a muddy track. Even in her interview the night before she mentioned the ground crew is going to have to work hard. Isn’t that a given Marilyn? Do you know how hard these people work to put on Rolex? Her attitude vs Jung’s makes you scratch your head.

It’s quite clear US riders need to compete overseas with officials they can’t nominate for events. Criticizing the starters, grounds keepers, vets, stewards - an entitlement problem? that is trending upwards for US riders.

Until our riders can fill the gap between the 35-45 range, we aren’t going to be at the top. Who can score here? It’s not just Jung; Todd, Christohoer Burton, Chris Price, Joenelle Price, Pippa, Nicola Wilson, Ingrid Klimke, Jock Paget, Hoy…AN & WFP when healthy…Sinead & Lynn & Colleen can as well - hey I’m all for an all female team throwing Lauren in there too & these woman would bring it. Sexism isn’t going to let it happen. None of these 4 will suffer hoof in mouth syndrome either I’m so glad Lynn mentioned being slow at Burghley, I kept wondering why are you going so slow on that deer of yours, she would have been 6/7th in a flocked field.

Who is ready for Badminton?

[Madeline]

@JER;8646230

I do. It’s called ‘sexism’. It’s deeply ingrained in our culture, and while equestrian sports present the veneer of equality – men and women do compete equally against each other – the same aspects of sexism that permeate business/sport/life can be found in eventing.

Or, at the risk of sounding like a female chauvinist pig, the top level women are better at recognizing which horses are really 4* material and not taking them where they don’t belong…

[Larksmom]

http://eventingnation.com/eventers-give-up-their-plane-seats-to-get-michael-jung-to-badminton/

and now, on to Badminton!

[runNjump86]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8646356]
Correction, Jung is so far above all riders, not just US riders. Let’s compare apples to apples (US to others) rather than apples to an orange (US to a superhuman). :lol:[/QUOTE]

Fair enough! :lol:

He is the best event rider in the world, as noted by the commentator. But I agree that other international riders are at least in the same class. Our’s seem to be a grade behind.

[LadyB]

I remember, thinking maybe 2011 Rolex? Could be wrong on the year.
Mary King was riding a grey horse, the horse was becoming tired. At the 2nd last fence (?) SHE PULLED UP AND RETIRED. Because the horse was tired. She could’ve pushed, but because she’s an amazing horsewoman, she pulled up and said today wasn’t their day.

ML had ONE horse to ride, ONE. She only had to know ONE start time, not 4. So I’m sorry but she definitely doesn’t get a free pass on the late time to the start box. I’m sure Rolex is run like a well oiled wheel at this point. Its not her first 4* and its definitely not the organizers first. I highly doubt it was missed because she didn’t know. I’ve been to enough FEI events that if you aren’t sure, your groom is usually more sure than you. Not saying its the grooms job, but you usually know where your rider needs to be at what time.

Every so often I want to be a fan of ML, but then you see this crap and go, nope. Too bad, she’s got a seriously nice string of horses, an eye for fences like crazy… but doesn’t have the natural horsemanship to care for her animals. Its about the win to her and nothing else.

Maya Blacks gelding is the coolest little thing, although a little rushed to me at the beginning of Cross, she knows her horse better than anyone, I was a little cringing but she got shit done!

Now we get to be excited over Badminton and educate ourselves on their riding styles!

[Pennywell_Bay]

I was there, as well, and thought the horse looked exhausted.

Just curious- do people think she was just not paying attention? Distracted? I can’t imagine there is any benefit to doing this intentionally? (totally agree there doesn’t seem to be an excuse at this level when other riders who had multiple horses made it on time).

Curious to those with more eventing experience than I (that’s everyone), what are your opinions?

[shea_smom]

I’m pretty sure nobody is perfect. I remember being at an event when Mike Plumb went off course on XC. It was probably a dumb mistake. I don’t think it was some kind of conspiracy. You people sound cray when it comes to Marilyn and KOC. Chill out. KOC deserves our respect.
You sound like the Obama haters.

[Highflyer]

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8646520]
I was there, as well, and thought the horse looked exhausted.

Just curious- do people think she was just not paying attention? Distracted? I can’t imagine there is any benefit to doing this intentionally? (totally agree there doesn’t seem to be an excuse at this level when other riders who had multiple horses made it on time).

Curious to those with more eventing experience than I (that’s everyone), what are your opinions?[/QUOTE]

I’ve only seen it happen at the national level (junior was worried about her horse misbehaving waiting around before the start of the T3D and opted to wait at the barn and I guess mixed up her start time-- she was very, very late for Phase A/ Roads and Tracks and was eliminated but allowed to continue.)

My experience at the international level has only been as a volunteer/ groom/ spectator, but the stewards have always been very clear and loud about when they want you in the box, so I have a hard time understanding how this happened. There really isn’t any reason for her to have done it deliberately and I think it’s a bit over the top to accuse her of it. It was probably just a dumb misunderstanding-- and as the queen of dumb misunderstandings I do sympathize with her on that one even if I wasn’t thrilled with her ride.