Rolex Live Stream/Results/Comments thread

[devvie]

Don’t really want to wade too far into this debate, but I watched her round yesterday, and though I don’t think the mare looked totally full of running from the get go, I didn’t see a tiring horse until the last few fences. Before that, she was running and jumping economically enough. Also, no one has mentioned the footing. We all know that some horses do better in heavy going than others, so that’s what tips the scales here for me to give this rider the benefit of the doubt.

[QUOTE=NCRider;8646233]
To be fair, while Demeter didn’t look full of run from the start, she was visually jumping OK for most of the round. She only lost the jump around the 8 minute mark and there wouldn’t have been enough time to radio in and pull them up before the fall so I don’t think you can blame the officials. Jordan Lindstedt rode the slowest Rolex round I’ve ever seen a couple of years ago, but they were safe the whole way around I’m not sure how you pull up someone who is just slow.

On the video, it looked like Demeter hit the wall 2 fences prior to the fall. I wouldn’t have been comfortable being the person to pull them up before that.

I actually thought ML rode OK from a technical standpoint, I’m not seeing the bad riding that other people saw. She also didn’t seem to be going that fast at the beginning so I can’t imagine she was trying to make up time.

Where she exercised poor judgment was by bringing a less than fit horse to Rolex and by not being prepared to pull the horse up when the mare lost the jump. That possibility should have been in her head knowing what she knew about the mare’s less than ideal prep.
She’s lucky they didn’t get hurt from the fall. Hopefully she will learn from this and not let defensiveness block out the lesson.[/QUOTE]

[ACMEeventing]

[QUOTE=NCRider;8646233]
To be fair, while Demeter didn’t look full of run from the start, she was visually jumping OK for most of the round. She only lost the jump around the 8 minute mark and there wouldn’t have been enough time to radio in and pull them up before the fall so I don’t think you can blame the officials. Jordan Lindstedt rode the slowest Rolex round I’ve ever seen a couple of years ago, but they were safe the whole way around I’m not sure how you pull up someone who is just slow.

On the video, it looked like Demeter hit the wall 2 fences prior to the fall. I wouldn’t have been comfortable being the person to pull them up before that.

I actually thought ML rode OK from a technical standpoint, I’m not seeing the bad riding that other people saw. She also didn’t seem to be going that fast at the beginning so I can’t imagine she was trying to make up time.

Where she exercised poor judgment was by bringing a less than fit horse to Rolex and by not being prepared to pull the horse up when the mare lost the jump. That possibility should have been in her head knowing what she knew about the mare’s less than ideal prep.
She’s lucky they didn’t get hurt from the fall. Hopefully she will learn from this and not let defensiveness block out the lesson.[/QUOTE]

I do think there is an important distinction between SLOW AND STEADY and SLOW AND EXHAUSTED.

I also think being there in person gave a much different perspective than only watching the footage. In the video you really don’t hear all the knocking Demeter was doing over the fences. It was a fairly impressive and really demonstrated how tired the horse was.

[JenJ]

I have a hot little mare that does not do well waiting quietly by the start box.

At the lower levels, we often run at 2 minute intervals and I always approach the starter at 2 or 4 minutes out, explain that I am aware and watching / listening for my countdown, but will only come to the start about 15 sec before I am sent off.
As they yell out “2 minutes”, “1 minute”, “30 seconds”, I always waive an arm to let the starter know I have heard and am aware.
My responsibility to pay attention and get myself into the box at 5 seconds before my start time.

[wanderlust]

@goodmorning;8646406

Even in her interview the night before she mentioned the ground crew is going to have to work hard. Isn’t that a given Marilyn? Do you know how hard these people work to put on Rolex? Her attitude vs Jung’s makes you scratch your head.

How on earth are you reading that as an insult? It’s a factual statement that the ground, which is rock hard from lack of rain, but is going to get soaked with 2" of rain over the course of a couple of hours, will need a lot of help from the ground crew to remain rideable. Someone asked her about the course. That was her response. Other people also were concerned about the footing holding up and stated as much.

It’s quite clear US riders need to compete overseas with officials they can’t nominate for events. Criticizing the starters, grounds keepers, vets, stewards - an entitlement problem? that is trending upwards for US riders.
As much as you like to insult her, you do know that Marilyn has competed extensively overseas, right?

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=ACMEeventing;8646642]
I do think there is an important distinction between SLOW AND STEADY and SLOW AND EXHAUSTED.

I also think being there in person gave a much different perspective than only watching the footage. In the video you really don’t hear all the knocking Demeter was doing over the fences. It was a fairly impressive and really demonstrated how tired the horse was.[/QUOTE]

Worth repeating. Anyone that cannot make that distinction IMHO should not be at that level.

Here’s a good way to tell if they were going “slow and steady” or if they were exhausted. Watch Demi right after a jump: notice the loss of momentum, the stagger of time - ML is thrown off balance by the poor landing… and then notice, when the crowd cheers/after ML clears the fence, that mare has NO distinctive change in speed, NO rally, no galloping off … She was not jumping economically, she was jumping with exhaustion. She was tired so early on - I remember turning to my friend who was watching with me and saying that it didn’t look good and that she might crash… She just wasn’t getting over the fences safely. Well, five minutes later, you see and hear it.

then watch other rides, like Lauren Kieffer or Maya Black and tell us that horse was just going “slow and steady”… watch how their horses just scoot and go right after the fence, they flatten out and gallop, there is a marked increase in speed…

I’m trying to abstain from posting too much about the ML debacle because I do recognize she has become a scapegoat on this forum, but she deserves every amount of whiplash she receives for not pulling her horse up sooner and endangering the horse like that.

[wanderlust]

[QUOTE=JER;8646230]
I do. It’s called ‘sexism’. It’s deeply ingrained in our culture, and while equestrian sports present the veneer of equality – men and women do compete equally against each other – the same aspects of sexism that permeate business/sport/life can be found in eventing.

Men are better compensated and are given more credit and opportunities for the work they do, even when women do the same or greater work. Women earn less than men even in professions dominated by women. Etc. So it comes as no surprise that this is what happens in eventing.[/QUOTE] There is definitely something to this. But I also think there are aspects of both excellent business management, marketing and self-promotion involved.

Boyd is out there in the public all the time - posting videos, has active social media, keeps his owners happy, etc. It looks like fun to own a horse with Boyd.
Philip is quieter in his approach, but has such a great reputation and has produced so, so many good horses over the years.

I believe Hannah Sue Burnett has put together a nice string of horses who will be ready for prime time in the next couple of years. Lauren Kieffer has several nice horses and more in the wings. KOC never had a problem staying well-mounted when she was in her prime. Gina Miles has had many horses bought for her but never managed to replicate the success she had with McKinley.

Neither Will Coleman or Doug Payne have a deep bench of horses - they bring out the same horses year after year. And then there’s James Alliston, who has run around Rolex with Parker with clean XC at least 5 or 6 times now. He can ride dressage with the best, and show jump with the best (but it’s not Parker’s bag). How he hasn’t ended up with a string of 3* and 4* horses is puzzling to me, because he really is SO GOOD, but he also just goes about his business quietly.

So I’m not sure sexism is so much the issue here, but maybe more a combo of professionalism, business sense and positive self-promotion.

[devvie]

If you want to watch a whole bunch of tired horses jumping in the mud, not being pulled up by the ground jury, take a look back at x-c video from Normandy WEG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSD7FgcPsyI

[wanderlust]

[QUOTE=devvie;8646694]
If you want to watch a whole bunch of tired horses jumping in the mud, not being pulled up by the ground jury, take a look back at x-c video from Normandy WEG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSD7FgcPsyI[/QUOTE] Wow. That is hard to watch. Horrifically bad course design in those water obstacles. And why on earth would they use all those prickly sticks as brush? Just punishes the horse.

[LadyB]

WEG was Carnage, and the design was not ideal unfortunately. Definitely many tired horses. Have to say, I’m impressed with Peter Barry’s go at the water, he looked solid!

[goodmorning]

[QUOTE=wanderlust;8646653]
How on earth are you reading that as an insult? It’s a factual statement that the ground, which is rock hard from lack of rain, but is going to get soaked with 2" of rain over the course of a couple of hours, will need a lot of help from the ground crew to remain rideable. Someone asked her about the course. That was her response. Other people also were concerned about the footing holding up and stated as much.

As much as you like to insult her, you do know that Marilyn has competed extensively overseas, right?[/QUOTE]

Marilyn is the only one who mentioned it in the fashion she did at one of the major press conferences. There is a time & a place. When conversations go from Rolex to Rio, PR skills matter.

Obviously aware of the fact that she’s competed overseas…hard to miss the bleeding mouth debacle

Playing in others sandboxes is nothing new; not sure why you are getting so offended by this notion. Unfortunate the truth is so insulting - in your opinion -for MLM. It is what it is, and thankfully neither were injured at Rolex.

[WasthatC]

Interesting video to post - the first rider shown is Buck and I’m pretty sure he retired on XC at Normandy. (He and Phillip both did, right?)

MJ & Roxie come through that video and the mare looks amazing.

Also, Sinead & Tate come through at around the 9:30 point of the video and it’s a good example of Sinead’s determination. Tate doesn’t look that tired in the video but it’s hard to judge based on a 30 second view and not seeing how he’d been running prior.

The XC in Normandy was such a sloppy, messy course that it became stupid. It should make us appreciate how well Rolex went this year, even in the pouring rain.

[goodmorning]

[QUOTE=wanderlust;8646686]
There is definitely something to this. But I also think there are aspects of both excellent business management, marketing and self-promotion involved.

So I’m not sure sexism is so much the issue here, but maybe more a combo of professionalism, business sense and positive self-promotion.[/QUOTE]

In the US the fan base is largely female. There’s fantastic article in the WSJ about the Queen Bee syndrome. Selectors, owners, fans - getting the right owners for a rider - etc.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323884304578328271526080496

[NoDQhere]

The biggest thing I noticed about fischerRocanna was how GOOD she looked, physically. She did not have that “drawn up” overly lean look of many of the other horses. She was in good flesh and her coat was positively “sparkly”. Yes, MJ is from another planet, for sure, but that mare is the whole package. I about choked when the announcer said she was “nothing special”. I bet many riders wish they had a “nothing special” horse like that.

[Midwesterner]

[QUOTE=OverandOnward;8646272]
BTW … for those who care … you can see Marilyn’s start in the on demand USEF replay. It is cut out of her individual xc video. But if you go to the USEF video site, search on “full” for the “full program” for XC … go to 3:09:00 … Klunick #52 is going out of the box and then she is on course for awhile … Marilyn #54 is shown trotting in w-u … then she walks and trots with no hurry down to the box until she’s right there with the starter crew energetically waving her through, then she picks it up … anyway, if you want a replay, I don’t know what is cut out, if that is everything, but there is that to see.

http://www.usefnetwork.com/featured/2016RK3DE/[/QUOTE]

Thank you!

I was standing up at the start/finish for several hours, and was there when she started. I was reading this thread thinking “geez, she didn’t come trotting down at all, she and Demi walked down the hill like all the others…obviously not in any hurry.” I watched the starting process on at least 25 riders - the starter called out 2 minute warning, 1 minute warning, then GO! The timing clock was clearly visible, and I as a non-eventer could even read it and know what it meant. So, really, for her to complain about being late, and try to blame it on anyone else, is really ridiculous!

[WasthatC]

Do we know why Colleen didn’t run Covert Rights at Rolex? Please tell me he’s sound.

[Midwesterner]

[QUOTE=riderboy;8645685]
Maybe it was a distraction technique. (just kidding) But I swear I saw Boyd limping when he jogged his first horse, perhaps it’s all a way to get our eyes off the horse! I thought the guys all looked pretty well dressed BTW.[/QUOTE]

I was standing up at the start/finish for a long while on Saturday, where I could clearly see the tent where the riders and crew watched the live feed. I saw Boyd hobble out, and I watched him walk all the way from the tent back up to the barns (to go get his next ride for the day). He limped the whole time…I’m pretty sure he is/was really limping in the jog too.

[riderboy]

[QUOTE=goodmorning;8646749]
In the US the fan base is largely female. There’s fantastic article in the WSJ about the Queen Bee syndrome. Selectors, owners, fans - getting the right owners for a rider - etc.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323884304578328271526080496[/QUOTE]

Interesting article! There are deep pocket female owners like Jackie Mars and Annie Jones to name two. I don’t know if they or all of the “syndicates” seek out men in preference to women or not. One thing I like about Eventing is the level playing field for sex and gender. At the lower levels where I skulk, it’s a women’s sport all around. I suppose one could make the argument that in terms of diversity Eventing seems to be a sport o white privilege.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I was there…and walked the actual course…footing was not terrible. It was a bit greasy for the first few horses but not terrible. Was it perfect…nope. But it wasn’t really HEAVY either…a few spots, yes but not the whole course. That is the problem with technical lines, everyone goes over the same line…welcome to the current sport. Bruce Davidson and others were commenting how good the going was…and how perfect the weather was for xc. Much preferred to hot and hard! And that Rolex is best a bit wet. It is when it gets wet and then the sun comes out that the clay gets holding…that did not happen this year.

Now WEG…THAT was heavy going. I think the footing at Badminton may be heavy and deep again this year…given the crappy weather so far. But Rolex…nope. That ground can take a LOT of water.

People were not making time because it was twisty and pretty technical. A lot of big blind drops to skinnies on a bended line, related distances, the random corner…and then big square oxers (some on a downhill approach). The CD used the terrain to make some pretty tough xc questions—as you would expect at a 4*…and there is terrain at Rolex…you were either going UP or Down the entire course. There were a lot of tired horses…and a lot were NOT fit enough nor ridden well to conserve. I personally do not think that was the fault of the footing. Some WERE very fit, looked great and well ridden. There were some pretty tired horses jumping on Sunday not looking as good as they typically did…and some that looked ready to go around again.

It was a good event and good weather for the horses running a 4*…not so great for spectating!!!

[enjoytheride]

[QUOTE=goodmorning;8646726]
Marilyn is the only one who mentioned it in the fashion she did at one of the major press conferences. There is a time & a place. When conversations go from Rolex to Rio, PR skills matter.

Obviously aware of the fact that she’s competed overseas…hard to miss the bleeding mouth debacle

Playing in others sandboxes is nothing new; not sure why you are getting so offended by this notion. Unfortunate the truth is so insulting - in your opinion -for MLM. It is what it is, and thankfully neither were injured at Rolex.[/QUOTE]

I think it’s great she mentions the hard job the grounds crew had with the course. I don’t see how commenting on it is insulting, its more recognition for the hard job.

[NCRider]

The current CCC**** dressage test isn’t easy and to be any sort of competitive you needed to hit 65%, which is not a bad score for straight dressage. I wonder riders are underconditioning their horses these days as a result of the need to keep them in optimum condition for scoring well on day 1. I would imagine that every bit of extra “unnecessary” condition left over at the end of the event cost you on day 1. It’s a fine line and I wonder if they’re erring on the wrong side of it.