Rope halter for dressage groundwork

[MsM]

When I was a kid, rope halters were definitely a western thing. Over the years, there were more people teaching how to use them (some teaching well, others…) to gain control and instill manners. Then more people in english disciplines started using them. Early on, it would certainly turn heads to see a big WB in a rope halter!

As a bit of a side note, how do the chain shank users attach them? I have seen over the nose, no wrap, and attached to the opposite nose ring: One wrap over the nose and attached: One wrap over the nose, through the opposite ring and attached by the eye: and even over the nose with a wrap, under the chin and hooked to the original ring. Of course there are variations of through the mouth or over the gums for specific circumstances. And lets leave out the fools who double the chain back and make a dangerous chain loop!

[quietann]

I was taught 2 things:

1. Always wrap the chain around the noseband.
2. Never loop the chain back on itself.

Both for safety reasons.

[endlessclimb]

Either to the eye loop on the off side, or the eye loop on the near side for a real s-head. Both cases, wrap around the noseband.

The only time doubling a chain back is appropriate is when you’re trying to minimize how much chain is on the near side - you double it back by the eye ring, and then clip it. Normally only done at a show for aesthetics. I don’t see the safety risk in that.

[eightpondfarm]

@netg

Wait… do people not put flat halters on exactly as you describe with the rope halter? There is zero reason not to.

It’s a little bit easier with a rope halter to hold the end and move the rope nose over a horse’s nose. Material is lighter and particularly if it is the stiff variety of rope, the rope nose stays in a round shape. It’s quicker for me to tie a quick knot than to find the right hole and buckle into it.

[MapleBreeze]

I understand why people use rope halters …
But omg I HATE rope halters. I have a bag full i never use. Who has time to tie those knots and they are so flimsy to get the nose in the hole…then it falls off halfway into the barn.

Give me a sturdy halter so that head can get in the hole and I can get horses in and out quickly.

And if a horse is a jerk i control their feet with a dressage whip so I just dont see the pont of rope halters. I mean, you teach them by controlling their feet not pulling on their face…

I dont want my horse to feel me on the ground, i want them to always be watching me. If I raise up my inside hand they better hella move over 1 ft for my safety - you dont get that from a halter - you get that from the eye. And you teach that with pressure release with a whip…so i still dont get rope halters …

And shanks… shanks only come out when we need to have a conversation about how to quickly load on the trailer. And for really bad boys that need something a little sharper, and ottbs that need empty threats cause they already know to be good when the shank goes on.

Isnt groundwork like with a bridle and a dressage whip? Like what is dressage groundwork with a rope halter? What are you teaching when you do that thing? Like how do you control the outside shoulder in groundwork with a rope halter? How do you hold the pieces together in proper balance?

I dont get it - thats why I have a bag full of unused rope halters…

Did I memtion they are a pita to tie?

[barnesthenoble]

This is largely a non-sequitur, but…how do you use a chain shank to help with quick trailer loading? Quickly thinking back on the difficult loaders I’ve had, and adding something like a chain to their face would not have helped. Actually had a horse who had developed a habit of standing up and flipping over when pressured to load precisely because previous owners decided to force the issue with a lip chain and a whip. Put him down at 5yo in part due to major pelvic and neck trauma from repeatedly flipping over before I got him.

Also, I consider work with a bridle and dressage whip on the ground to be “in hand” work. Groundwork is separate, to me anyway.

[luvmyhackney]

If I have to use a chain I wrap it like this:

268-Wand%2520and%2520Leads.pdf

Only time I don’t is if I’m using it as a lip chain. I hate when chains drag or they are looped back, so unsafe.

[endlessclimb]

Eh, it depends on what they’re doing.

I’ve seen it help, and I’ve seen it make the situation way worse.

The one it helped was a mare who just knew how to say “no” and throw it in reverse, dragging anyone along the way. The chain made that a crappy choice, and she would load politely as soon as she felt it engage. Similar horses, similar reactions to the chain.

The one it didn’t help was a horse who had pressure from every which way - someone was whipping, the chain was engaged with the person at the end pullingpullingpulling - that horse said WTF and completely flipped his lid. Note I was not the one loading him. They tried for 4 hours before I offered to help - I took the chain off, hand grazed him for a few minutes to help him reset, then tried using my way. Turns out, the horse was a little freaked out about the slippery floor (no shavings, and it was muddy out). As soon as we put a little bit of shavings in there, he hopped right in. Took me about 20 minutes to figure out what the problem was.

Depends on the horse.

[Feathered_Feet]

@MapleBreeze

…then it falls off halfway into the barn.

Um, you are definitely not doing it right if it falls off! Also it’s just a quick loop - it really doesn’t take that long to tie. But a leather halter for a well-mannered horse is faster, albeit like, 2 seconds faster for me to put on, maybe 5 seconds faster for me to take off.

But to your other point of “who has time” - they are not for daily use, they are for training And not in-hand, dressage work (although I definitely use mine for that, too, sometimes!), but ground work- teaching basic life skills to horses that seem to have missed Politeness 101. My horse was a hot, spooky young warmblood, and has never had much respect for a leather halter. For ground work, trotting/lunging for the vet, initial trailer loading learning, etc. she goes in a rope halter.

They are basically used to teach horses to give to pressure, in one context or another. Some horses clearly missed that lesson - you know the ones I’m talking about: the ones that run over their owners, pull around to look at xyz, or are just straight-up rude bordering dangerous… surely you’ve seen that owner waterskiing from the barn to the paddock. That is the horse that would benefit from a rope halter. If you have super well-behaved horses on the ground, then you’re right, a rope halter doesn’t bring much to the table.

[barnesthenoble]

Very interesting. Based on my experiences I wouldn’t ever use a chain when loading (or hauling at all but that’s a separate discussion), as the horse I mentioned in my post supposedly started out that way–he’d just go backwards. They escalated with a chain; when that just made him go backwards harder, they switched to a lip chain and whip…and he started flipping. This is of course only what I was told, so I don’t know for sure what all happened. I can only go off of what I saw once I had the horse.

Good to know that it can work for folks, although my experiences would make me extremely cautious to recommend anyone except the most experienced horseperson using a chain shank for loading.

[endlessclimb]

Loading is all about timing.

A ton of people do not have the timing. They think they’re going to pull or pressure a horse on. That doesn’t work 95% of the time (unless you’re absolutely brutal about it, which has lasting consequences, as you’ve seen!).

[MapleBreeze]

Yes, that is so correct. I am usually loading alone so i literally have a bucket of grain in my hand and there is a big reward for going forward. I hardly ever need a shank - but if I do its about timing.

[EventerAJ]

Re: chains and loading

I have known multiple horses who actually load really well with a lip chain. Some of them being OTTBs, who were handled/loaded for much of their life at the track in a lip chain. One horse in particular was a stubborn (not scared) large 4yo. Owner was having lots of issues getting him loaded. I walked over, slipped a lip chain on, and the horse’s demeanor changed INSTANTLY. He said, “Oh, THAT trailer! You didn’t say you wanted me to get on that one! Of COURSE I would l love to load in that one for you!” and he walked calmly inside without a hint of hesitation. Another horse is a 6yo WB mare who sometimes has her owner’s number and does the donkey-plant on the ramp, and if pressed will think nothing of running over the handler to dart off the ramp and around the side of the trailer. A lip chain limited her ability to run over people, and once her escape route was nullified she walked easily inside. Her owner now loads her regularly with the lip chain, no muss no fuss just march on the trailer.

I don’t reach for a lip chain when teaching a horse to load. I prefer patience and treats for positive reinforcement, with CAT-H and attention to the horse’s emotions. BUT, when horse just gotta load and it’s being a bad bully, a lip chain can keep everybody safe and more easily get the horse in and on the road (to the vet, to home, etc). It’s not a training tool, but an effective method of restraint and control when used by a skilled horseman.

[quietann]

The lip chain was the last resort for my mare when she wouldn’t load. I’ve heard that the pain causes an endorphin rush, and she certainly mellowed right out when the chain was on.

I never did get her honestly 100% reliable to load or unload. Not sure what broke but I’m pretty sure I broke it.

[BigMama1]

@EventerAJ

I don’t reach for a lip chain when teaching a horse to load. I prefer patience and treats for positive reinforcement, with CAT-H and attention to the horse’s emotions. BUT, when horse just gotta load and it’s being a bad bully, a lip chain can keep everybody safe and more easily get the horse in and on the road (to the vet, to home, etc). It’s not a training tool, but an effective method of restraint and control when used by a skilled horseman.

A lip chain can work miracles when truly needed and used correctly

[J-Lu]

I suspect you don’t know how to tie a rope halter.

I use a rope halter and it takes me no time at all. I also suspect you don’t know the point of a rope halter. Sorry. Your description of what it takes to load a TB suggests you don’t know the difference between leather and rope halters.

No, groundwork isn’t often successful with a regular halter and a dressage whip unless you know how to signal a horse. Regular halters give no message. I think you have way more to learn than anyone can post on this thread and I suspect you have limited experience with dressage horses. Regular dressage halters are widely-spread pressure and are easily ignored. Rope halters are not easily ignored but require some skill from the handler that you don’t understand. Of course you have a bag full of unused rope halters. Perhaps that’s good for your horses.

No, they are not a PITA to tie. I use one correctly tied all the time and it takes no time at all. I suspect YOU don’t know how to correctly tie one.

[J-Lu]

@MapleBreeze

Yes, that is so correct. I am usually loading alone so i literally have a bucket of grain in my hand and there is a big reward for going forward. I hardly ever need a shank - but if I do its about timing.

Your horse should not need grain to load. Or bribes to load. Your horse should listen to your cues on moving forward into a confined space because your horse is listening to your cues. You don’t need a shank.

It’s horsemanship which you don’t seem to get. Be the boss mare and say “load all four feet into this trailor now” and reinforce that. Most horses like a boss telling them what to do in their language. If you can’t speak that language, work with someone who can teach you.

[J-Lu]

My horse was a difficult loader even though, or in spite of, traveling long distance in the past. He wouldn’t load well…until I learned to load him well years ago. He’s not easy, but he will listen to me. We taught him how to load well. And he does.

[barnesthenoble]

Yes, I have no problem with lip chains when needed–they can truly be life savers. The horse I lost was actually off the track, and in the right setting a lip chain could make him an absolute lamb (like while icing a tendon injury). Per his track trainer, he was fine with large walk on vans that he was used to at the track, but smaller trailers freaked him out. To this day I wish I knew the full story if what happened to him between the track and landing in my lap. He was never naughty with me once it was clear I wasn’t going to push him about it, just very, very fearful and expecting to be beaten on.

I suppose that experience simply colored my opinion of chains and loading, and I’d never had to use one as I’ve been largely blessed with uncomplicated loaders. The first time I heard of it was when I was warned about the little flipping habit (after I’d already paid and signed a bill of sale, naturally!). I’ve definitely learned something from this thread.

I’m still team rope halter, but even I use a flat leather halter for hauling!

[endlessclimb]

There’s a place for food rewards when loading. It depends on the horse. It depends on the situation. And if it works for the poster, why do you care?

Anytime someone makes trailer loading (or anything horse related) into absolutes, I just laugh. Your time is coming. “You don’t need a shank”.

But thank you for giving a horsemanship lesson! Much appreciated.