Royal Ascot

[Rackonteur]

@findeight

Yes, of course, but my question relates more to racing at 6 furlongs WITH a turn compared to racing 6f down a straightaway. Rounding a turn with a field of 2 year olds in race conditions is quite different then schooling it at home, wondering if it was preferable to start them on straightaways adding the strategy and crowding a turn in race conditions involves as they get more seasoned and are ready for more distance.

Unlike the US, England does not have cookie-cutter ovals for their racecourses. The Derby itself has only one “turn” similar to a US race track’s; it also has some additional bends in the course.

For example, here are descriptions of two of the courses at Newmarket:

• [B]The Rowley Mile Course[/B] has a 1 mile 2 furlong (2 km) straight with minor undulations towards 'The Bushes', two furlongs (400 m) out. The penultimate furlong (200 m) is downhill and the last is uphill, forming 'The Dip'. Races beyond the distance of 1m 2f start on the 'Cesarewitch' or 'Beacon' course which turns right-handed into the straight.[SUP][7][/SUP]
• [B]The July Course[/B], also sometimes called the [B]Summer[/B] Course, has a 1 mile (1600 m) straight, known as 'The Bunbury Mile'. After 2 furlongs (400 m), there is a long downhill stretch before the uphill furlong (200 m) to the finish. This course also uses the 'Cesarewitch/Beacon' course for longer distances, again turning right into the straight.[SUP][[/SUP]

[Rackonteur]

Further exa![](ples: Doncaster and Goodwood:

[IMG]https://www.attheraces.com/images/course-guides/goodwood/goodwoodft.png)

[Willesdon]

@findeight

Yes, of course, but my question relates more to racing at 6 furlongs WITH a turn compared to racing 6f down a straightaway. Rounding a turn with a field of 2 year olds in race conditions is quite different then schooling it at home, wondering if it was preferable to start them on straightaways adding the strategy and crowding a turn in race conditions involves as they get more seasoned and are ready for more distance.

Well, that is a good question and I was running various race courses through my mind and then Rackonteur helpfully included some plans… so as far as I can recall, 5 or 6 f races are generally straight.

[Willesdon]

No, just done some v quick research e.g. Beverley has a dog leg on the 5f course which is described as ‘hard to get for a 2 yr old early in the season’.

[findeight]

@Willesdon

No, just done some v quick research e.g. Beverley has a dog leg on the 5f course which is described as ‘hard to get for a 2 yr old early in the season’.

Thank you, that’s exactly what I was looking for to answer that question. The turn adds more to the challenge of racing the youngsters is the feeling over there. We are stuck with it over here. May not matter either way to the horses and be local traditional thinking. Or not.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Totally bummed that the Queen’s mount, Magnetic Charm, lost by such a narrow margin to Thanks Be in the Sandringham Stakes. Really wanted to see the Queen win.

Now that I’ve said that, congrats to Hayley Turner on Thanks Be to be the first woman to win at Royal Ascot since Gay Kelleway did in 1987! :encouragement:

I find that I almost wait in anticipation more for the Royal Procession than the racing most mornings. Seeing the lovely horses and such well maintained carriages and the Queen herself always turned out so smartly For me, will be a sad day the first time she’s not part of the Royal Procession.

I also get tickled over the trainers and jockeys (when they’re not dressed for race riding) to be turned out in their morning coats and top hats. I also get tickled that even Frankie Dettori, who was kissing everything in the place yesterday after Stradivarius won the Gold Cup for the 2nd time, still bows when he greets the Queen

[findeight]

Isn’t bowing when one meets the Queen accepted protocol as is backing away instead of turning around and walking away with your back to HRH? Heinous social gaffe to fail to do so.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Gentlemen bow, ladies curtsey

But still was fun seeing Dettori who was kissing everything, including the TV camera, in site and still slowed down enough to bow for the Queen

[Rackonteur]

Yeigh! De grey – Defoe – won de Hardwick!

[Kyrabee]

Wow…Blue Point won two grade ones THIS WEEK. Trainer said they swam him one day and hacked him one day and he looked great and had recovered from the first race so they put him in the second race. He looked magnificent today. He seems very laid back and calm ala American Pharoah.

Susan

[LaurieB]

@Kyrabee

Wow…Blue Point won two grade ones THIS WEEK. Trainer said they swam him one day and hacked him one day and he looked great and had recovered from the first race so they put him in the second race. He looked magnificent today. He seems very laid back and calm ala American Pharoah.

Susan

His jockey, James Doyle, is the brother of Sophie Doyle, who’s been riding in the U.S. for several years. She’s currently at Arlington.

[Rackonteur]

@findeight

Isn’t bowing when one meets the Queen accepted protocol as is backing away instead of turning around and walking away with your back to HRH? Heinous social gaffe to fail to do so.

Yes, as long as you’re British, or a UK or Commonwealth citizen, i.e., a subject. It is not correct for Americans to curtsy or bow, but IMO it looks respectful and polite even if technically incorrect.

I was disappointed to see the Queen’s horse not win yesterday too, but OTOH I thought maybe Her Majesty was very pleased about the winning jockey being a woman. I know I was!

[Rackonteur]

And so … just like that … Royal Ascot is over for another year.

What did you bring away from it?

More schooling in the gate is needed, I would say – except that for the baby horses, as they say of the Kentucky Derby, “anything can happen at the gate”!

I hope next year the American commentator will not behave like a bored-silly first-grader when an Englishman is recounting the very interesting history of one of the races.

I would love to see Frankie come over here and ride sometime. He enjoys it so much, and I enjoy watching him enjoy it, and win.

I love how the jockeys talk to their fans and to the TV people, just like friends out on a hack at your local barn/yard. That is just so cool.

[Palm_Beach]

Frankie is usually here for the BC.

[snaffle1987]

I’ve learned how much happier and well behaved European horses tend to be. Probably because of their upbringing and living arrangements. Small stables, lots of time on hacks in the countryside and gallops out in the fields. Lots of outside time…in some cases even turnout. Never brought up with a pony to tote them around. But only that could happen in a country like England or Ireland that has embraced its agriculture and horse sports as part of daily life.

No ponies to pony them to the gate and no gate attendants. Load and go. I envy it all in a way

[On_the_Farm]

@snaffle1987

I’ve learned how much happier and well behaved European horses tend to be. Probably because of their upbringing and living arrangements. Small stables, lots of time on hacks in the countryside and gallops out in the fields. Lots of outside time…in some cases even turnout. Never brought up with a pony to tote them around. But only that could happen in a country like England or Ireland that has embraced its agriculture and horse sports as part of daily life.

No ponies to pony them to the gate and no gate attendants. Load and go. I envy it all in a way

From what I’ve seen, European horses are led into the stall but the attendant ducks out from under the front gate. I’ve seen a fair share need some encouragement to go in also, even though the stalls in the european gates are larger. That’s why, if you should care to lower yourself to watching American races, the european horses who come over for big races are very prone to refusing to go in, even with encouragement.

Using a pony and an assistant starter are not signs of a lesser rider or a poorly trained horse. US riders can ride shorter by getting help from a pony and it just gives these half-starved guys some help and prevents them from being worn out before they do get to the gate. Also the role of an assistant starter is to protect the rider and to ensure a fair start, not to compensate for a “poorly trained” horse.

[Where_sMyWhite]

snaffle1987, bet you will be pleased to see that Blue Point, who raced, gasp, twice last week at Royal Ascot in, gasp, both G1, has been retired to stud. At least now he won’t be an ol’ broken down nag by being over-raced

[Willesdon]

Different culture, different job. The UK horses canter down to the start, which they are used to as it isn’t so different from work at home, and it is part of their final warm up. The stall handlers load them: the handlers are hugely experienced and can tempt a reluctant horse with a handful of grass or safely gang up to man-handle a reluctant horse into the stalls. Once loaded, it is jockey and horse alone. The horses are trained for the stalls, they are assessed before they begin racing and if they mess around badly and frequently they have to be retrained and reassesed before being allowed to race again. Trainers can request that the horse goes down early, or is loaded last to deal with quirky horses. The American system suits American racing, the British and Irish one suits conditions here. Jump racing doesn’t even use stalls since the distance and conditions make a totally level start a bit redundant.

[Rackonteur]

@Where'sMyWhite

snaffle1987, bet you will be pleased to see that Blue Point, who raced, gasp, twice last week at Royal Ascot in, gasp, both G1, has been retired to stud. At least now he won’t be an ol’ broken down nag by being over-raced

Yes, I got the impression they raced him twice because they were going to retire him to stud after Royal Ascot.

What a lovely horse he is! Maybe someday one of his kids will meet one of American Pharoah’s.

[Rackonteur]

@Willesdon

Different culture, different job. The UK horses canter down to the start, which they are used to as it isn’t so different from work at home, and it is part of their final warm up. The stall handlers load them: the handlers are hugely experienced and can tempt a reluctant horse with a handful of grass or safely gang up to man-handle a reluctant horse into the stalls. Once loaded, it is jockey and horse alone. The horses are trained for the stalls, they are assessed before they begin racing and if they mess around badly and frequently they have to be retrained and reassesed before being allowed to race again. Trainers can request that the horse goes down early, or is loaded last to deal with quirky horses. The American system suits American racing, the British and Irish one suits conditions here. Jump racing doesn’t even use stalls since the distance and conditions make a totally level start a bit redundant.

Flat racing didn’t use starting stalls until well into the 20th century. Sometimes I wonder if today’s horses would be happier if they could go back to the old line-up at the barrier and not have to be blindfolded, blanketed, and manhandled into place.