Ruling out medical reasons for a chronically lazy horse

[MissAriel]

I have a gelding that has been a bit on the lazy side since I got him last year. As his workload has increased this year he has continued to be lazy, despite training. I am about to do a vet workup, so brainstorming possibilities and what to check for first.

Details: 2013 warmblood gelding (gelded early 2016), grew up being handled, but mostly out in a field with other young horses. In May 2016 I purchased him and spent the summer slowly working with him (along with a trainer experienced in starting young horses) on the ground and in the fall we were able to have maybe two-dozen short rides before the drought broke and we had torrential rain for much of the winter. Even in his first rides with the trainer, he was hard to get to trot or canter and quickly stopped.

This spring we started riding again with gradually increased complexity, adding in figures, tiny bits of shoulder in, leg yield and turn on forehand along with lots of transitions between and within gaits. Being young, he has a short attention span, so we change things up a lot and don’t drill exercises. We have mixed in other activities like trails, poles, even a bit of tiny jumping. Nothing gets this horse forward. He knows the aids for W-T-C, and even though we have diligently ridden with the “if he doesn’t respond when you whisper, shout” approach, it is still WORK to get him forward. He doesn’t act up much, and when he does, it is very brief - a buck or two, then it is like he decides it isn’t worth the effort. He has an older Custom Saddle, adjusted by a very good independent fitter, and he is equally lazy when working him on the lunge - with or without tack. He takes regular naps - laying down for a long nap each morning. Even in turnout, with plenty of room to run, he doesn’t do much usually.

He gets a mix of bermuda and alfalfa twice a day. We tried more alfalfa, but he just got pudgy. He also gets 1 lb TC30 ration balancer, ~1/2 lb beet pulp dry weight, 1/2 c flax seed and Nu-Hoof Maximizer, which has AAs, biotin, copper, zinc. He drinks plenty, has a salt block and is in good weight, shiny coat, outwardly healthy. He’s barefoot and gets regular trims, plus regular dental, vacc, etc. Keep in mind I’m in San Diego; he is in a 24x24 corral with either turnout or lunge or ride each day - typical for our area. Usually he gets one lunge, 2 days off (turnout) and 4 rides split between trainer and I each week. Often if the trainer works him during the day, I will still get him out and groom him and hand walk him for a bit that evening.

Since a concerted effort to address this via training has only gotten modest improvement, I am planning on getting a vet workup to see if he has some underlying physiological issue we could address. Probably blood tests - CBC/chem, maybe test for thyroid. What else might it be worth testing for?

[candyappy]

He sounds like he is just a calm , easy going horse. Probably not what you want to do but it sounds like he might be better suited for someone who wants a horse they can just get on and ride while chatting with their pals. They do exist.

Saves you from having to push him through everything with crop, spurs etc…

Saves him from having to be something he might obviously not be.

[sublimequine]

Some of my mare’s “laziness” was actually PSSM. It’s a super simple hair test for PSSM1. Muscle biopsy for PSSM2, I believe.

[OneTwoMany]

What does your trainer think? Does she think his “lazy” demeanor is within the range of normal?

[PNWjumper]

I have a mare who sounds a bit similar, and I’ve been thinking about posting something like this for a while. My girl additionally seems to suffer from heat intolerance. But regardless of weather she is fairly lazy and I’ve noticed as I’ve upped her conditioning regimen that she doesn’t seem to ever acclimate to the increased workload (in other words she sweats a ton despite having been worked at about the same level for a long time). But I also work her really hard, so I don’t expect that she wouldn’t sweat - so not totally black and white.

I haven’t tested for PSSM, though that may be something I look into.

I don’t know about yours, OP, but mine feels like a bit more than just “a quiet attitude,” and I’ve long wondered if there’s a way I could change her feed to help up her energy. Mine’s not particularly lacking in ability - she spent the season showing in her age classes in the jumper ring and won more often than not, which is nothing to sneeze at, but I just feel like she could have a bit more oomph! I’ve tried some different supplements (nothing directed at adding energy because that seems like a crap shoot on getting the right kind of energy), but I have added alfalfa, upped her grain, lowered the amount of grain, upped her rolled oats, and so on.

I have talked about it quite a bit with my vet. Because the primary symptom (the laziness and sometimes pissy behavior) seem the worst when it’s hot out, we put her on a chinese herb to address heat intolerance for the last few shows of the summer. That seemed to help quite a bit. I’d have to look at what the herb was…it had a chinese name and I have no idea what it is beyond being one of Dr. Xie Tang’s herbs (I use several others for other reasons). Might be worth a try? I can’t recall what my vet said the herb was for - horses who were insufficient in Yin, I think? But that doesn’t mean anything to me. The fact that it seemed to affect her for the better did, though.

[MissAriel]

@candyappy - you may be correct, but before I decide between selling him or changing my goals, I want to make sure.

@sublimequine - thanks! I’ll look into that.

@OneTwoMany - trainer says he is the laziest horse she has ever been on. The relaxed attitude is one thing, the naps we chalked up to a “growing teenager”, but she has never seen a horse not respond to being trained to be more forward like this.

@PNWjumper - glad to hear I don’t have the only one! Hot days are slightly worse - like a lot of horses, but cool days don’t have the opposite effect where he gets “up” like many do. I took him to a schooling dressage show, and while he had more energy there than at home, I was still working (and failing) to keep him forward. Lots of 6s with comments “more forward”. If you find the name of the supplement, I would be interested in looking into it.

[candyappy]

@MissAriel I would find out too if he was mine . Sorry if I wasn’t clear on that!

[JB]

I would definitely test for PSSM just to rule it out. Hopefully it’s not the case, as feeding a higher fat diet to an air fern PSSM horse can be really tricky.

While you’re at it, get his E and Selenium checked.

It may simply be who he is. I have one of those. He has “energy conservation” permanently installed on buttons 1-10

By the time my trainer met him, she told me she would have spent a lot of time when he was being started, out in wide open spaces, and going for “gallops” and big trots as his fitness and training allowed. The sooner you instill more forward thinking, the easier it gets to get forward movement.

But even then, with a lot of diligence and 1000% consistency in never, ever allowing to be a slug, it improved a LOT. This meant any time I was in is space of control, whether in his stall, leading, etc, I had to be relentless in requiring quick responses to anything I asked. Never allow him to lag behind while leading. Ever. I carried a Dressage whip, or used a 9’ lead with a popper on the end (easier) for a long time.

Walking off after mounting - MOVE. No moseying off. Ever. Right from the start, get on, pat him and tell him how magnificent he is, then GO

Transitions until that’s all you can think about. Quick, snappy, less worry in the beginning about how correct, more about getting them done It’s a lot easier to make things correct when you have energy to shape. That doesn’t mean let him heave himself into a trot, he does need to be properly package, but forgive some of the sloppiness in the beginning in the name of getting an instant response.

If you do things right, which means you might over-ask a few times, then it shouldn’t take long each ride to start getting “Yes M’AM!” responses, even if you have to start over each ride for a while. Then you can work on making things more correct

[IPEsq]

I personally love horses with this kind of personality. I also wouldn’t worry about the napping. My young, very large WB and his young, very large WB turnout neighbor take naps multiple times a day. And they are both a bit older than your guy.

I understand the boredom/attention deficit part, but I’d be cautious not to do too much too soon as far as asking for advanced self-carriage like the lateral work. Just light contact (if any) and get the rear end motor revving first. Keep up some poles and things for interest, but I might shelve lateral moves (or keep them at a walk) for now. Do you have any space to go out on hacks?

As far as physical things, there are a lot of possibilities. Developmental issues going on in the spine or pelvis, sore feet, a muscle issue like PSSM, maybe even the beginning of a metabolic issue. I think a lot of people who used to think their horses had growing pains, needed a lot of time off for growth spurts, etc., wound up with horses with back issues, and it was probably the back issues flaring up during growth spurts plus the related complications like change in saddle fit.

[MissAriel]

@JB - adding PSSM and E and selenium to the list. While it may be who he is (energy conserving is right ), we have been diligently doing the things your trainer mentioned (on the ground with a dressage whip as needed, insisting on prompt, if imperfect, upward transitions and lots of them) since starting him last year, and while it is a bit better, keeping him going is still way more work than it should be.

@IPEsq - If it were my trainer’s horse, I think she would give him to you! :lol:
Sorry, I should have specified - the lateral work is just a step or three at a time and at the walk. It is more about giving him a new task to do to keep his brain busy than really schooling the movement, but I get where you are coming from. I appreciate the list of physical things. We have checked his back and there is no evidence of soreness there. We do go on hacks/trails some but even then he doesn’t move forward.

[KittyinAus]

When you ride out on trails, do you go out with another horse and rider? If you don’t, having another horse along might help.

[PossumHorse]

I doubt this applies to you, but another box to check - my gelding was the laziest TB, always the lat one in for meals, came in at a slow walk. Well, the farrier talked me into trying pads on his back feet and al of a sudden he was a normal TB out in pasture. No a maniac, but enjoyed playing and galloping. Bilateral foot soreness can be hard to see. I suspect hind soreness is even harder to see.

[joiedevie99]

It is most certainly worth a thorough check-up!

I’d start by pulling blood for a CBC/Chem Panel, Lyme and EPM. Sometimes a vitamin or mineral supplement to fix a deficiency can make all the difference.

I’d also do a quick lameness check - hoof testers, flexions, palpate the back, flex the neck just in case.

[ActNatural]

Maybe Lyme? My 3 yr pony mare was so lazy when we started her. So so so lazy! I thought I was going to have to sell her because the amount of effort it too to get her going hurt my back! When the vets wanted to see my canter her during our work up, I said I couldn’t because it took too much effort! I had a ground person use a lunge whip! Turns out she had Lyme. Treated it and she’s so much better! Still lazy when it’s hot but not nearly as bad!

[Palm_Beach]

@MissAriel - I’d spend a couple days sensitizing him to my leg before calling the vet. Some horses, mainly lazy ones, “learn” to ignore the leg if the leg never goes away. They see it as nagging and just ignore it. So you may need to reteach “Go.” I do this on a no-contact loose rein beginning at the walk. First a mild squeeze, then a cluck/smooch, then a medium smack on the hindquarters with a dressage whip. As soon as you get a trot, completely leave him alone (no steering or contact with the reins) and just let him Go for a bit, then bring him back to a walk. If he canters, that’s fine. Repeat, over and over and over. You will find that he will start going forward much much easier. It’s important to leave him alone (loose reins, no contact) when he responds correctly. If he doesn’t go forward with the first whip smack, keep smacking rhythmically until he does. Don’t apply your leg or smooch again, just smack.

Once he starts going forward more reliably, just let him cruise around comfortably until he pulls himself up, don’t give in to the temptation to leg him on when he slows down. Let him gear down a gait. Then use your aids, in order, to get him going again.

I rode hunters and eq most of my life, and understand the leg leg leg leg leg of the English world. But some horses just tune that out, and maybe you have one of those.

[Second_Star_To_The_R]

Certainly Lyme, thyroid, pssm a few vitamin levels like b12 and others that have been mentioned. I’ve seen one be thoroughly lazy because of ulcers as well as sore rear feet.

I had a friend who uad a healthy horse that was so lazy and laid back the lunge whip wouldn’t even get her moving. I have a five year old gelding who is almost this bad. Healthy as a horse, nothing abnormal and all tests negative. He’s just lazy as sin unless you’re cleaning troughs. He’s quick as a snake when he’s spitting water down the back of your pants. :lol:

[Xanthoria]

PSSM, Lyme or EPM is where my vet started on my similarly laid back boy. Turns out it was PSSM

[dacasodivine]

I have a horse that was normally forward get lazy. At first I thought it was because it was summer or because he was no longer a baby so had settled down. I had blood work done but nothing was found there. He did have more energy on Safe Choice but I still felt like something was going on. I started giving him Equishure for hind gut ulcers and he is now a new horse! He was showing some other signs that led me to thinking it was hind gut ulcers but that laziness was the first sign.

Get blood work done to see if anything is found but trust your gut that something is going on with your horse.

[luvmycabanaboy]

Agree on the ulcer thing above. I’ve had mine 11 years, and he’s always quiet, but when he’s especially reluctant to move out off my leg, I reach for the ulcer meds…works every time.

[MissAriel]

Thank you all, for the great suggestions.

I have considered ulcers, but there are no other symptoms so trying to rule out other issues first.

@Palm Beach - we have been working along the lines of your suggestions all along, but with less success than my trainer had expected based on horses she has worked with previously.

This week we started “over” - starting from the ground again. In hand, with a lunge line and a long in-hand whip, but fairly close, so that we (trainer or I - whoever is working with him that day) run alongside on a large circle. The goal is a PROMPT and FORWARD transition which is immediately praised then ask for downward transition. It became more of a game for him and you could really see him focus on the person and try to figure out the goal, rather than resist with laziness. The sessions are also very short - maybe 15 minutes.

After a few days of this we moved to the same thing, but trainer on the ground with me mounted. Lots of transitions and only maintaining the forward gait for a few strides before asking for a downward transition. I have to be sure not to push with my seat or use more than a light leg aid to get the transition - trainer backs up my light leg aid with the whip if needed. The initial results are good - transitions are prompt, and immediately into the forward, pushing gait. The plan is to continue on this track, keeping things as brief and positive as possible while focusing on prompt and forward for him and for me to do less!! Based on how well this week went, I think if we can keep changing the “game” to keep him mentally challenged, it will be easier to keep him engaged and forward.

I’m keeping the other health issues in the back of my mind, in case other symptoms crop up.