Excellent choice!:lol::lol::lol:
Another show hunter chiming in… 
I agree with letting go.
I was out in our big field last year riding by myself at the barn I board at. We were cantering on along the fence line (that’s where the shade way) and then a flock of birds flew off from a tree. Bye Bye Pone Pone. Hard spook and he took off at a gallop and I couldn’t get him to stop.
Now, I don’t gallop. 
So scared me a bit. So what do I do? I start pulling back as hard as I can, saying whoa (which he usually is very good about), etc… sans stirrups… thought I was going to come off.
Then I finally said to myself… (a) breathe (b) let go of his face. Breathing help me settle back down in the saddle instead of doing the “weeble wobble” thing. And then once I let go and said whoa, he came back down to the trot.
Lesson learned? Let go of his face.
Going to my first Event in a few weeks. I’ve never done XC but we’ll be schooling it next week, I think. I need to talk to my trainer about teaching me the pulley rein that you all are talking about. 
I guess this is where the FLASKS come in. Some of us (like myself) need a little help to relax a bit when out galloping w/a big group and ease up on the micromanaging:winkgrin:. I drink a glass of wine before a dressage test to ease my nerves (or my horse goes stiff/hollow). I think I need to add some more IRISH to my coffee with bailey’s on hunt mornings. A coffee with Bailey’s AND Jameson perhaps?
[QUOTE=LookinSouth;3163169]
Are you cantering/galloping in the same spot every ride? Does she only do this on said particular trail or anytime you open her up into a gallop in the open even at a new location? I’ve found with my own horse that I really can’t always canter or gallop in on the same stretch on our trails because he begins to anticipate and get VERY hot. Unfortunately there are certain sections of our trails that are so ideal for cantering and galloping that I tend to always pick those spots but I’ve learned my lesson; we vary it frequently. The only places we can consistently do a nice hand gallop and stay 100% in control is when we are going up a Hill. Fortunately we have lots of those too. I also never open him up heading HOME.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, there are not very many places to trail ride where I board. We only have one :no: place where we can gallop. I haven’t gone there very many times because of her past performances. The last time we went, I stopped her before she started to go too fast. Besides not having breaks, she’s not paying attention to where she puts her feet or what’s coming up ahead and that’s what really scares me about letting her gallop. I am going to practice some slowing down/collecting exercises in our big outdoor ring before letting her run on the trail again.
[QUOTE=LSM1212;3164838]
Another show hunter chiming in…
I agree with letting go.
I was out in our big field last year riding by myself at the barn I board at. We were cantering on along the fence line (that’s where the shade way) and then a flock of birds flew off from a tree. Bye Bye Pone Pone. Hard spook and he took off at a gallop and I couldn’t get him to stop.
Now, I don’t gallop. So scared me a bit. So what do I do? I start pulling back as hard as I can, saying whoa (which he usually is very good about), etc… sans stirrups… thought I was going to come off.
Then I finally said to myself… (a) breathe (b) let go of his face. Breathing help me settle back down in the saddle instead of doing the “weeble wobble” thing. And then once I let go and said whoa, he came back down to the trot.
Lesson learned? Let go of his face.
Going to my first Event in a few weeks. I’ve never done XC but we’ll be schooling it next week, I think. I need to talk to my trainer about teaching me the pulley rein that you all are talking about. :)[/QUOTE]
Ohh, I’m not a pulley rein fan, although many many people use it. If you’re going at any speed and use it you can set your horse up to really injure his legs by forcing his balance from one leg to the other. It is verbotten when exercising tbs for racing…
You can train your horse to respond to the system Beverly described and it works well and is safe for your horse’s legs.
Um this may sound mean to some but I have been run off with and have found one thing that worked for me. I pulled up and back with hard jerks on both reins. Head comes up horse rocks back on their haunches and ends up stopping. It does seem mean, but when you feel you and your horses life is on the line, it works.
Thank you for all the suggestions thus far.
You may laugh, but we actually had a chance to try many of these ideas in our wonderful out of control run. I stood up in the saddle, sat down and used my legs and seat, but he was in his own world at that point. I normally would use the one rein stop or many circles in this situation, but if he got off balance or stopped going straight, we would have met our death on the asphalt or in the ditch and barbed wire. He actually pulled the reins free of my hands a couple times, so I’m not sure that dropping the reins would work, but I can try it on purpose sometime. “Whoa” meant nothing to him when he was in his ‘zone’ and we’ve been working on him learning to ‘whoa’ alot recently.
To get the feel of how he was, tie a rope to a fast-moving train and try to pull it to a stop behind.
Yes, this is a major training issue. Mostly because my horse was bred to and trained to run ahead of all other horses at very fast speeds. I was fortunate enough to click with this guy because he used to run away with many other people on him in any situation (in ring, hacking, jumping, outside ring) and was on his merry way to Beltex when I stepped into the picture and promised him a lifetime home. He’s never grabbed the bit when we’ve been out hunting, though he is so much better as a whip than in the field.
I like the Amish emergency brake but I’m afraid this horse doesn’t have the necessary equipment to set it up.
Never heard that, but good to know and consider. I shall try out the method Beverly recommends and see what happens next time we go out for a gallop. Honestly, I don’t have to worry about him taking off all that much, it happens rarely when he’s in front or alone and he has never bolted to the point where it was dangerous; just went on longer/faster than I cared to go for a short distance:lol:
However, the dropping the reins may be more effective for me when out hunting or riding in groups and my horse is NOT in front. That’s where we run into him being a pig head.
[QUOTE=LookinSouth;3164913]
I guess this is where the FLASKS come in. Some of us (like myself) need a little help to relax a bit when out galloping w/a big group and ease up on the micromanaging:winkgrin:. I drink a glass of wine before a dressage test to ease my nerves (or my horse goes stiff/hollow). I think I need to add some more IRISH to my coffee with bailey’s on hunt mornings. A coffee with Bailey’s AND Jameson perhaps?[/QUOTE]
NO FLASKS
Ah, yes, they DO need to pay attention to where their feet are going, at any speed. As for what’s coming up ahead, they are going to trust you to take care of that- if they are really focusing on where the feet should go.
I get them focused on this at the walk. I pick trails where the penalty for not paying attention is stepping on a rock. That hurts. I know they have learned the lesson when I am walking the rocky trail, on loose rein, and they are shifting laterally across the trail as needed to find the best footing. Once they’ve got it at the walk, some nice long trots on trails are in order, and again, if they adjust to avoid bad spots, they’ve got it.
Ahhh the joys of the OTTB! I was run away with once this year. Finally got him undercontrol with pulley reins. My most frustrating situation is a hold hard. It takes him several strides to realize he needs to slow up…meanwhile I am sailing by several grim faced field members! As one of our whips say… brakes are highly overrated. :winkgrin: They are a lovely thing when they work!
Ahhhh…I don’t think it’s a training thing…it’s an instinct thing IMHO. Running with the herd; predators are after us, if they’re running fast then I gotta run faster to avoid being eaten etc. And he WAS on the track; just doing what he was taught to do when he was younger. Run fast with pulling on the reins etc. I think the pelham is an easy bit for horses to lean on & pull on because most folks have the chin chain too loose. It’s hard to just tweak with a pelham. Ditch the bit. I had to with one draft cross. I need a snaffle type action to “tweak”, half halt, pulley etc. And I like it when they are keeping their noses down when running away with me so I like gag bits for hunting and even running martingales. Then I get to control the amount of pulling/contact I use whilst running along. And my one learned to buck/head toss/try to unseat me when I pulled too much so we had to compromise whilst running along. It was their way of saying…“Hey! get off my mouth!”…fun!
Before a gag; try a good thinner snaffle bit WITH a figure eight or flash attachment to keep his mouth closed so the bit will actually work. So many learn to run with their mouths wide open to evade the bit.
AND I think it near impossible to reproduce the hunting experience unless you can go out with others and gallop together. You & 30 friends I mean!! :winkgrin:
OP, more info please…
Some of the suggestions puzzled me, and I’ve concluded that I read the OP differently, so maybe some clarification…
You ride in a mullen mouth pelham --why? (is that how you got him --you mention prior life influences… --or was that a specific choice up to this point)
do you keep the chain up (does it engage easily), or is it fairly loose (i.e. more for him to think about than for you to use)?
As a general rule/suggestion I think 2 reins is best (provided you are comfortable with them), and for a horse that doesn’t usually cause a problem, ride off the snaffle rein and keep the pelham or gag (or other) rein ‘in reserve’.
Can someone explain how you go about creating a situation that you know will make your horse take off out of control? or why you would do this? or why you would do this repeatedly, expecting failure to stop effectively the first few times (until you work up to the bit that works??) Sounds like training the horse that when he takes off, he can just keep going to me. For other fixes, I can see ‘working your way up’ the possibilities --maybe in the ring, for instance, but in this case (unusual occurrence leading to dangerous behavior) I want to try something that minimizes interference with usually-good behavior, but that I am confident will also minimize the chance of being killed or injured by a runaway. 2 reins, on my best guess at what I’ll need to stop, period.
Without answers to the questions above, I second the vote for gag + running martingale with the addition that it be a 2 rein set up.
[QUOTE=asanders;3166481]
You ride in a mullen mouth pelham --why? (is that how you got him --you mention prior life influences… --or was that a specific choice up to this point)
do you keep the chain up (does it engage easily), or is it fairly loose (i.e. more for him to think about than for you to use)?
QUOTE]
We’ve experimented with many bits over the past 5 years I’ve had him. I’ve found that he likes curb bits best and in the arena he loves to go on the bit at any rein length. He also goes very well in a double bridle, but we haven’t been schooling too much in it recently, so I didn’t want to throw it on him and hunt in it. Being able to use two reins really makes communication more effective, and my horse actually understands this. Also, I’ve found he goes much better with having an unjointed bit than with any sort of joint.
I typically adjust my curb chain a bit on the loose side when out hunting after he came back with a rub from it one hunt. The poll pressure is the big thing for him to work off of and I’ve never noticed a difference in the chain when I’ve adjusted it differently. I’m completely anal about having every little piece of tack properly adjusted and constantly have to fight urges to walk up to other people and fit their tack correctly (typically martingales, nosebands, and curb chains [untwisting them and let’s not get me into jointed pelhams!]… also moving saddles back off the horse’s neck).
I’ve tried flash and figure 8 nosebands with no success. Blitz freaks if he is unable to open his mouth and will just stay in one place rearing up if I get on him (which stopped scaring me at a certain point). I’m sure by now you think I’m completely crazy for riding this horse, but he’s a good boy and tries really hard if the stars are aligned in our favor. Once he decides I’m not going to get off, he’ll work with his head in the air and barely stay on his front feet if I try to get contact with him. BTW, his teeth are not the problem. It’s definitely mental.
I hope I’ve answered all questions. If not, let me know!
Thank you TBlitz! No, I don’t think you are crazy, in fact you confirmed my suspicion that you are a competent (and thereby possibly crazy by other’s standards) hunt rider.
Maybe get a padded curb, and take it up a notch, or try a slightly longer pelham, but still ride off the top rein. Have you tried the running martingale?
hey, you stopped in one piece anyway --how many were in the field for closing hunt? (are you really thinking this will become a regular occurrence?)
Thanks for being nice to me asanders. I’ve already decided that I’m not going to be riding many crazy horses after him. Years of training them off the track and then going through all Blitz’s issues along with medical advice have me looking to slow down once Blitz retires. I’ve got a Irish Draught yearling that’s going to grow up into my next hunt horse, and he’s not a hot head in the least like his “brother.” Both of them have absolutely amazing personalities and great ground manners, something that just happens somehow when they live with me. Blitz is the “barn pimp/magnet” and constantly has teenage girls hanging all over him giving him love.
I’ve looked at getting a longer pelham since this has fairly short shanks. I’ve been digging through my junk looking for the curb chain gel pads, since I swear I have at least one, but haven’t found it yet.
I used to use a running martingale when we did jumpers, but decided it was useless for us. I’ve started using a standing martingale in the field, and it seems to be helping us a bit to stay on all 4 feet while the person in front of us goes across ditches.
I think we only had a dozen or so people in first field, though there were 3 horses that decided to take off once we came to the road during a really long chase. He’s always been harder to stop in open areas, so it wouldn’t hurt to maybe up the bit a little so I have control then. Maybe someday I won’t come back with blisters on my hands
We have a hunt this weekend (it’s an invite only one, not a regular one) and I’m going to be using a different horse since I don’t want to tow my guy out there (way too much gas $ for poor college student).
I have low opinion for martingales: just a gimmick to fuss with. When I started riding 30 years ago I learned how to get bashed in the face so for the last 29 years I sit up properly. Use what you need. If your horse throws its head up then a running martingale may be effective. I did not see head throwing as a problem in the OP.
… experimented with many bits over the past 5 years… goes much better with having an unjointed bit … poll pressure is the big thing for him to work off of and I’ve never noticed a difference in the chain when I’ve adjusted it differently
OK, you may need to fill us in on what you have tried and to what effect?
A different pelham with longer length shanks?
Gag with 2 reins?
Dr. Bristol / French link / or other multi-link mouth?
unjointed Happy-Mouth type 3 ring?
Mechanical hackamore?
Any Myler style? bitting assistance service is offered http://www.toklat.com/bitting_assistant.php
Other?
Reins and bit are a “telephone”. If your horse hangs up and wont answer then you need a ring tone not to be ignored.
Some horses rear, buck, and run under certain stresses and adding additional stress with a bigger phone may not be the answer. I use Beverly’s method of release and pressure when I have time. When out of time and options then you have to break the mind-freeze by bellowing, kicking, using your crop and spurs, pulling your horse’s muzzle into your lap (long shanked bit helps here) and, with luck, he stays up on his feet, out of the ditch, and comes back to your aids.
[QUOTE=Delphia;3167189]
OK, you may need to fill us in on what you have tried and to what effect?
A different pelham with longer length shanks? That’s what I’m thinking of trying next
Gag with 2 reins? Yes, he wasn’t very happy with this one
Dr. Bristol / French link / or other multi-link mouth?used Dr. B, the 3 joint with the bean in the middle and a waterford. He did okay with the Dr. B but does much better in a curb bit
unjointed Happy-Mouth type 3 ring? no, but I’ve always though about trying this even though EVERYONE in the jumper ring seems to use them
Mechanical hackamore? no
Any Myler style? bitting assistance service is offered http://www.toklat.com/bitting_assistant.php Tried amost every myler bit they make. He did well in the ported ones, but I didn’t like the ones with ‘hooks’ since they used leverage whenever he would make contact wiht them. I did use the ported one with hooks for awhile and he seemed to go well in it
Other? yup… double bridle (he loves and goes amazing in it, but our breaking power is about the same as the pelham)
doesn’t go well in: single twisted wire full cheek, plain snaffle, kimberwicke, and I’m sure there are others on this list
Reins and bit are a “telephone”. If your horse hangs up and wont answer then you need a ring tone not to be ignored.
Some horses rear, buck, and run under certain stresses and adding additional stress with a bigger phone may not be the answer. I use Beverly’s method of release and pressure when I have time. When out of time and options then you have to break the mind-freeze by bellowing, kicking, using your crop and spurs, pulling your horse’s muzzle into your lap (long shanked bit helps here) and, with luck, he stays up on his feet, out of the ditch, and comes back to your aids.[/QUOTE]
Blitz works best with 2 reins, though I’d love something where I only had to keep track of 1 rein. Wishful thinking.
Someone recommended a mikmar bit to me and since there’s a tack shop near me (foxhuntingshop.com coincidently ) that lets you take bits on trial, I thought it might be worthwhile. They have mikmars, mylers, and some KKs. Mikmar’s kind of scare me with their size though.
[QUOTE=Delphia;3167189]
I have low opinion for martingales: just a gimmick to fuss with. When I started riding 30 years ago I learned how to get bashed in the face so for the last 29 years I sit up properly. Use what you need. If your horse throws its head up then a running martingale may be effective. [/QUOTE]
Sorry, but I disagree. I sit up properly, and I’ve never been bashed in the face by anything except one particular arab (and I was sitting up --fat load of good that does you sometimes), but I use running martigales often. A running martingale changes the action of the bit, when it is engaged, and to a degree proportionate to how it is engaged, it is not just a ‘tie down’. Admitedly, I am not a huge fan of standing martingales, but some horses just need boundaries, and a standing martingale provides one. If that arab had had a standing martingale, he would have discovered that the boundary for his head ended before it reached my lap. So I guess when riding a green pretzle, I ‘need’ one.
I’ve only been run away with twice that I can remember. Once when I was about four and my Dad’s polo pony took be back home and the other time a couple of years ago when my mare thought a bear was coming at her after she smelled bear scat (rustle rustle in the trees).
I don’t know what I did - nothing probably - because she wasn’t listening anyway. I managed to steer clear of a spinny by yarding on one rein with all my feeble strength, but by then I think her brain had come back. It was like being on a runaway train - but we survived.
