I checked the USEF rule book and it explicitly states that “Standing and running martingales used in the conventional manner are allowed for all over fences classes”. That being said, would a judge penalize a horse for wearing a running martingale in a hunter over fences class if that’s what the horse goes best in? I’m just curious as I’m personally not a fan of standing martingales. I would rather use no martingale at all. But my horse has a tendency to toss his head when he gets excited jumping. So I would rather use a running than a standing. If anyone could provide some context for this, that would be great. Thank you.
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It would be considered unconventional and probably would be. It’s at the judges’ discretion of course.
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Find out why your horse gets excited and shakes his head, and work with him on it. Schooling, schooling, schooling – for both of you.
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Well they’ve been “out of fashion” for many decades now in the hunter ring. And as you know… “fashion” is king in the hunter ring. No, a judge “should” not penalize you for wearing one on your horse… but it depends on the judge, doesn’t it?
I had a little horse who jumped beautifully, and he liked wearing his running martingale. He never tightened it, he never “looked” like he needed it, but take it off, and he was very unhappy. So I always left it on… not my decision to make one way or the other- the horse was in charge of tack selection, not me. I did a few shows, just little schooling shows, nothing major, in the hunter division. Got “eliminated” at one by a judge who thought that they were “illegal” in the hunter ring ROTFLMAO. I didn’t care one way or the other. Won the hunter stake class at another little show while wearing the running martingale. Moved on to showing in the jumper ring only, and I was able to take off and retire the stupid hunter noseband that he had to wear in the hunter division, on very loose so he didn’t know it was there at all ROTFLMAO!
So, if it makes your horse happy to wear his running martingale, you may do so at a horse show. You will be the only one in the hunter class wearing one, but that’s OK, don’t worry about it. If someone tells you that you can’t- tell them to go read the rule book. Perhaps the judge will hold some amount of grudge about it, maybe they won’t. But yes, it’s legal. Just not “stylish” at the moment. But perhaps that will change again at some point… as styles in the hunter ring do… constantly.
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You see them here and there in the equitation - uncommon, yes, but an r or R judge will know they’re legal. You’re more likely to get points docked for the head toss than the martingale itself.
If you (general) walk in to the hunter ring with a running martingale, odds are you actually may need to use the tack for it’s intended purpose - and head tossing/giraffe posing are not ideal for a show hunter.
Tangentially, this is where I think people in general can get confused on hunter judging. The judge didn’t dock points for the legal but uncommon tack, they docked for the behavior that prompted the use of said tack. Just like they didn’t dock points for the legal but uncommon coat/shirt/breech color or bling - they judged the ride in front of them, and perhaps the color made the mistakes more obvious and memorable, if anything.
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A standing says “head tossing problem” just as much as a running would to me. Especially a standing adjusted like a tie down, which the majority are at the shows I’ve been to.
If the standings were purely fashion items they’d be adjusted loosely… 🤷
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I definitely see them so loose as to be useless 99% of the time around here. Must be an area specific thing - standing martingales are just for the aesthetic at MOST of the barns I’ve been at. Pros on the greenies and certain schooling ponies being the 1% exception lol.
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As someone who judges at those “small schooling shows”, I know my rule book even if I’m not a r or R judge. Sure they are legal, but quite unconventional, however more likely to be seen on the unconventional hunters shown at the “small schooling shows”. I judge the ride and horse, not the brand on the breeches so to speak. Come in the ring with a running, square pad in bright green to match your coat and a horse who tosses his head or a goes a bit sideways to the jump, and that signals to me that this isn’t a conventional hunter…and when competing against those who demonstrate the standard, the unconventional horse might not place as well. It isn’t the green coat or the martingale, it’s the round the horse and rider put in.
Don’t stand out unless you are putting in the round to match!
And my mare wears a standing, properly adjusted, as she prefers it to going bare-- quieter (not that she’s all that wild!), steadier, and I can use it as a grab strap when the ring crew comes out of the Portapotty unexpectedly, loudly talking to his buddy, right next the ring (who put that there!) hidden behind the judges booth, causing my mare to object with a sideways stride or three.
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A running martingale works best when riding on grass. The horse can go on any surface.
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Until relatively recently, the USEF Show Hunter rules didn’t say anything about martingales, except that they needed to be removed for the “under saddle” class.
A number of the older, upper level judges considered running martingales just as acceptable as a standing martingale. A number of the newer judges considered funning martingales “unconventional” , and would heavily penalize any horse wearing a running martingale.
A group led by the older judges put forward a rule change proposal to say that a running martingale was “not unconventional”, and the rule change passed.
That doesn’t change the fact that many of the newer judges “don’t like” running martingales, and that will affect their judging, even if they know they can nor claim it is “unconventional”.
But, if a horse ACTS AS IF IT NEEDS A MARTINGLE, whether it is wearing a running, standing, or no martingale, it isn’t going to place very well.
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Anecdote
I started taking riding lessons at a hunter barn.
The local hunter barns put on schooling shows.
They did have year end awards, but it was all local. No A or B shows. They did use the rule book.
Every single class , every single horse or pony wore a standing martingale.
Before the over fences classes, the trainer would come out and disconnect the strap from the breastplate to the bridle and tie it in a knot, or if it was a two ended strap , just take it off.
You NEVER EVER jumped in a standing martingale . But in the flat classes it had to be a standing martingale.
That was a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.
I haven’t been to a hunter show in 20 years so it’s different now.
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I’ve only ever seen the opposite, standing martingale removed or tied up for flat classes. I’m not a hunter rider but I do put one on for hunter classes because I like to have something to grab if necessary, especially if the horse is braided. At home (and sometimes even at shows) I use a martingale yoke with no martingale-- on everything from racehorses and babies to dressage and event horses.
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Yep all martingales are not allowed in flat classes. You can just tie them but it’s better and neater to remove them all together. This is where girth snaps come in handy!
Interesting that this barn did it exactly opposite the rulebook. To my knowledge, martingales have never been allowed on the flat. I’m prepared to be wrong, however!
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I see standings very loose around here (New England / New York), more a fashion statement than anything else.
I could have gotten it wrong. It was a long time ago.
The reason it stood out to me , is that I used to help at the show when it was held at the barn.
I helped out at the gate , among other things.
One of the most aggravating things about hunter shows was the hurry up and wait.
So there were a large number of entries for each class and we gate people had to wait for each trainer to come and remove the strap for each of their students and there was always someone running behind and wanting the trainer to come help them with something else . Or the trainer was at the other ring watching a round and no trainer helped another trainers student even if the trainers were friends. They just didn’t.
It may be because these shows weren’t recognized they made up their own rules.
Were standing martingales not allowed at all, or just not attached?
Cannot be attached to the noseband/cavesson while competing in a flat/hack class.
I wouldn’t tie one up rather than just take it off unless it was an unrated show for sure and we really were in a hurry. Just neater to take the whole thing off. And mine are all on snaps anyways so a non-horsey helper can do it in 3 seconds!
Man those poorly run hunter shows can really be frustrating, but it’s part of the experience. I’ll say the unrated shows in my area that are HUGE are run on a tight ship - that’s why they have so many competitors. You WILL get in the ring on time, unless there’s a darn good reason, doesn’t matter who the trainer is or how many horses they bring. No one wants to be there til 10pm!
Of course, beginners and first time competitors need more hand holding, so doing all that at a barn-run unrated day makes sense. A lot of them are run by volunteers and parents who don’t have the same militant skills as our bigger local circuit gate guards. I’m STILL scared of some of those people, and I’m an adult now lol!
I am sure you are right.
I do remember them tieing up the martingales before a class.
And then you had to wait while they attached them back again.
Good times.
We do lots and lots of basic dressage work. I’m a huge believer in cross training. My horse is a 1.25m/1.35m jumper. We do the high adults but I may play with him in the adult eq and hunter derbies if we can get him quiet enough. Trust me when I say I’m always looking for the underlying cause. He is a strong, strong boy who gets excited jumping the big stuff. But he’s also very sensitive as well. He goes in an elastic running martingale but can also go in a traditional running. I just don’t feel comfortable putting him in a standing as he over jumps and jumps quite hard. Even when correctly adjusted, I’m concerned he will hit the standing upon landing, considering how he jumps.
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Unless you are just trying to get extra miles, I’m not sure why you would want to do this horse in the hunters or worry about how a running martingale will affect your placing. It will affect it, because hunters don’t go in running martingales, legal or not.
More likely though, your horse is not going to place well because all the things you describe (overjumping, excited, head tossing, likely to hit the end of a standing upon landing??) are not the hallmarks of a good hunter.
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As a hunter rider who bought a jumper, I played in the hunter ring with him when I first bought him to get me the confidence, we went in a plain martingale but I knew we had zero chance at a ribbon because of he is just not the type.
Honestly- you could just pay for a schooling round (if they have it) or just enter the class and go in what he goes best in. Have fun.
For me- it was not a waste of money because “I” wanted and needed the miles and confidence (jumper jumps looked terrifying to me then).
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