Running martingales

[mp]

@chicamuxen1;2969225

Actually, a lot of people to switch trail riding and mabe compete in endurance and CTR left what they used to do with horses because they were frustrated with their riding or their horse’s performance. Out on the trails they aren’t judged (NATRC excepted). So,lot’s of folks in endurance riding just aren’t all that skilled with their hands. Hey, that’s life, and it’s too short to not go on and get out and compete and have fun.

Thanks for saying that. I’ve made a similar observation and been fried by endurance riders for it. Endurance riders and their horses display a load of fitness and guts. But sometimes not much finesse. But that’s why there are all sorts of disciplines for all sorts of people, right?

But even the best rider and best horse can have their moments. So, if you have a horse that has given you a few heart stopping moments because of a “control” issue caused by a high nose, it may make sense to use a RM in a preventive and properly adjusted way.

Heartily agree with that, too. Use what you need to ride safely and confidently. Just be sure you’ve got it set up correctly.

I ride him in a hackamore, (no place for a martingale)

Question: do you mean a mechanical hackamore and it’s not appropriate – as with a curb bit? Or a hackamore has no physical place to attach one. Just curious …

[patti]

I was a bit of a dressage queen in a former life …

… and most folks I ride with would agree that I am a bit of a control freak about my horses and their behavior.

Have competed four horses now, and now have one who needs a RM in competition sometimes. He’s a hot little tamale and as quietly as he’ll travel down the trail at home, he gets amped, and being NSH, he gets pretty durned high headed without the RM.

Mind you, he’s ridden in a side pull hackamore, so he doesn’t pull per se, he just gets inverted as all get out. And I have little influence when he’s stargazing.

I consider them training wheels and look forward to the day where I don’t need to ride him with the RM, but not on the first day of a ride, or the first loop, not at this point.

Absolutely agree with Chicamuxen’s appraisal about their use and adjustment.

Ace’s is worn with the rings at the height of the point of his hip.

And amazingly, it was my dressage clinician who suggested I use it.

[Auventera_Two]

@sublimequine;2969176

This doesn’t make sense to me. Don’t you think an endurance horse would be quite accustomed and trained to deal with other horses passing it? To me if I see a horse having a meltdown just because another horse passes it, it doesn’t need a martingale. It needs to be trained properly! :no:

Or it just needs more miles. No amount of training can prepare a horse for the ride day nerves the rider will experience, and the commotion of the event. It’s something a horse just has to experience over and over again. My little mare has been trained and worked with more than any other horse I’ve ever owned but on our first LD ride, I had to get off and walk. We were being passed on the trail by horses left and right, and she just couldn’t mentally cope with “being left” even though her babysitter was staying right there with her. So I got off, got to the side, and held the reins, let everyone pass, did a little ground work, got back on, and finished with a sane/calm horse.

Romantic Rider can tell ya - she passed me while I was walkin’! :lol: This IS part of the training. The 2nd LD I did, I didn’t need to get off and walk at all. She handled all the horses passing her perfectly well, and she even handled a long, fast gallop down a gravel road in a pack of 10 or so other horses. I pulled her up and let everyone else keep going when I felt she was getting too tired. She was fine with it. Experience and milage is what it takes.

[Huntertwo]

@sublimequine;2968887

You know, I was wondering about that too. Seems for a head flipper a tiedown or standing martingale would be a much better option. You can adjust it so it basically doesn’t come into play at all until the horse actually tries to flip the head. Running martingales can’t do that. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen an endurance horse in a standing martingale.

Similar to a tie-down, if the horse falls, it has a very hard time getting its head out to get back up. And something you NEVER want to use crossing deeper water.

[goodhors]

I want to mention, I never considered anyone using the Running Martingale would also be using ANY kind of curb device, bit or hack on that horse!! Silly me, I thought all those using Running Martingales would be using some kind of ring sided, direct-pull bit on the horse.

A correctly adjusted Standing Martingale or Tie-Down, will allow a horse to easily use his head, yet not get it up above the safe level. Should be usable, not interfere with the snaffle type bits, ring-sided or any curb bits, Mechanical Hackamores.

I mentioned the water crossings, removing long strap for that, because there was a man and horse killed when he went into a lake, fell over the drop-off on horse with a tie-down. Horse sank like a stone, couldn’t get his head up, man could not swim, 20ft out into lake. Man was in a horse forbidden area, to take horse into water, ignored the sign. Swimming horses ALWAYS raise their heads. Even the running martingale would be dangerous, every rein pull puts nostrils down, if swimming water. Restrained heads on horses who will be in deep or unknown water are DANGEROUS.

I guess if I was as worried about control as some folks (rightly so!) are, then I would go on to the Mechanical Hackamore. You have enough leverage to help stop him, could add the tie-down to keep head under a certain height for your head safety. You can still pull and circle, keep control. No mouth pressure on horse, easier on you as well. LEVERAGE is your friend if horse brains comes unscrewed because of his surroundings. Yep it does happen, horse has to acclimate somehow. Nothing you can really practice at home for. Takes repeated exposure, rider keeping control gently as possible, letting horse see stuff, working thru the steps as they arise. Yet if things get “kinda Western”, the curb leverage control should still be there to keep YOU safe, steering horse around, maybe circling, to regain his mind.

I REALLY would not want to deal with your horse problems using the ring snaffles and running martingales. You can always back up to less strong measures, AFTER horse is more reliable. Many kinds of comfortable hackamores, that will keep you in control if horse never is 99.99% reliable.

[Gestalt]

chicamuxen1, thanks for the homeschool

I’m thinking that using a RM really wouldn’t help me. I’ll ask my trainer about a German martingale. Maybe it will help my boy focus on me and not Mr Longears! I tell, when you have a horse check out on you, that is scary.

[gothedistance]

Gestalt -

You do know that a German martingale is a direct rein/draw rein combination, right? This isn’t something I would suggest for using on the trail. Far, far too easy for the horse to just go behind the bit… and then you lose both contact and control. You’d be better off just using draw reins with a separate direct rein, so you can separate the results of the two.

[chicamuxen1]

To clarify for someone who asked - I ride in a short shanked mechanical hackamore (called an english hackamore) on Mighty Mouse. It’s my preference in hackamores but that’s another explanation. Anyway, I don’t care for RM on anything that has a curb/leverage action. The leverage action of a curb bit or hackamore with curb chain/strap should already be lowering your horse’s head and it’s not needed to keep the curb bit on the bars of the horses mouth because as soon as the rider pulls back on the reins the curb chain tightens and the poll get pressure which is really what the curb bit does anyway. So the RM serves no legitimate purpose on a curb action device.

Another worry would be how a horse might react or flip out if it had a RM on a curb bit, threw it’s head, got snatched hard by the curb, tossed it’s head again in suprised, got snatched again and truly flipped out. I saw this happen when hunting, not with a RM but with a short standing martingale. The master had a new horse which a friend of mine had been legging up for her. He had a tendency to once in a while just loose his mind for a few seconds over something scarey and toss his head up and bolt for 50 feet until his brain turned back on. My friend was using a RM of mine and a snaffle bit and good progress was being made. We took the horse to several social rides and got him out in company. Then the owner had a horse come up lame and decided to hunt this horse. Stupid decision, the horse wasn’t ready to lead a field of galloping horses. Then to top it off she put a SM on this poor dumb horse because a SM was correct and a RM wasn’t. This is the stupid belief that is common amongst hunter folks these days and just plain dangerous in my opinion. Anyway, the first time this horse got excited and tossed his head, hiting that SM with his nose he just flipped out, reared up, nearly falling over and tossing the master off. She mounted and went on then had it happen again. She declared the horse dangerous back at the trailers (embarassed and too blind to accept it was her own fault) and ended up giving the horse away. Sorry, long story, but it pays to introduce any horse gradually to anything new and my point, don’t do anything that grabs their head, is too restrictive and triggers the horses instinct to fight.

Now German Martingales are another topic, like draw reins they may have a use, but again can be a hazard in woods, and you can’t quickly let them slip thru your hands like you can with draw reins. However, the martingale is simpler for most to use. Best used in the arena, properly adjusted so it’s fairly loose. I’ve used them occasionally with older horses with rigid braced necks, just to get the idea into their heads that they can bend and release their poll, unlock so to speak. Sometimes an stiff, pulling school horse can benefit from having a german martingale worn as it actually sort of protects him from the hands of the kids who are rigid with their hands/arms. The horse gives and loosens, the kids relax more and get off the horses mouth and everyone unclenches and starts to improve.

I just used one last month on my coming 5 yr old. He has about 26-30 rides so far, never been in an arena, just on trails. He was still kinda stiff in the jaw and poll so I thought I try for a mental break thru by using a GM for a ride or two. After 30 minutes it had clicked in his brain and I disconnected the straps from the reins and the thing was driving me crazy. Poor horse couldn’t reach the water in the mud puddles and his natural neck/head carraige is so low that the GM just lowered his neck even more! Felt like there was no horse in front of me. Very odd feeling. This is a PB Arabian who could easily have a career as a western pleasure horse (not my thing!)

chicamuxen

chicamuxen

[mp]

[QUOTE=chicamuxen1;2971015]
To clarify for someone who asked - I ride in a short shanked mechanical hackamore (called an english hackamore) on Mighty Mouse. It’s my preference in hackamores but that’s another explanation. Anyway, I don’t care for RM on anything that has a curb/leverage action. The leverage action of a curb bit or hackamore with curb chain/strap should already be lowering your horse’s head and it’s not needed to keep the curb bit on the bars of the horses mouth because as soon as the rider pulls back on the reins the curb chain tightens and the poll get pressure which is really what the curb bit does anyway. So the RM serves no legitimate purpose on a curb action device.

chicamuxen[/QUOTE]

That’s what I thought you meant (and I agree). Thanks for the clarification.