Running martingales

[Gestalt]

Why are so many endurance horses ridden with a running martingale? Is this for control? I was on endurance.net looking at pictures and noticed most, if not all, the horses at a particular race had it on. Is it more prevelant in others countries?

I haven’t been to an endurance ride since 1984 and I don’t remember seeing martingales used, but maybe they were.

Anyway, just wondering what the benefits would be. I have a horse that on occasion will raise his head and try to evade contact. (usually happens when he sees a mule or donkey :lol:)

[gothedistance]

I’m going to take a guess that the photos were of international races. You’d have to ask those riders.

I very rarely… if ever …see them at American rides. I could probably count on one hand the number I’ve seen in 10 years in this sport. Frankly, I dislike any type of martingale for any riding discipline. I look upon it as being a shortcut to decent riding.

[Romantic_Rider]

Um… actually, I ride in the Midwest region, and I do see alot of running martingales. I use one on both of my horses. One of them is a high-headed Anglo-Arab. Her previous owner always used a running martingale on her, and I do to. It seems to be something she needs. My little mare can be high-headed, but on her it’s more of a safety precaution. I know one very experienced rider who uses it on all of her horses just as a safety precaution, and have seen counltess high-headed horses that desperately need one.

[Gestalt]

Thanks RR, that is what I was wondering. Is the “safety factor” because they can’t get their head so out of control? It might be possible to regain their mind more quickly if they weren’t able to fling their head up.

The pix were of the race in Dubia(sp?). But I was just looking at 2006 Tevis and many horses had them there too.

My horse can really reach for the stars when he sees mules, even though we run across some on a monthly basis. Somedays he is more prone to react then others. :rolleyes:

As far as running martingales being a shortcut, well to me it would be like trying different bits.

[rainechyldes]

I don’t use one on any of my current horses- but I had a mare many years ago that I definitely should have.
She was my first endurance horse, very high headed. She knocked me under the chin with her poll many times, and these days I pay that price. Many cracked molars that are now crowned, and/or root canaled. As well as some lower jaw &neck issues. All directly attributed to the fact I didn’t use a martingale on that one horse.

so moral is - high headed horse, that possibly could/would knock you in the face. - prevent it. ~

While it may be ‘poor’ riding/horsemanship in some peoples minds, there are times when a martingale is actually a very good piece of equipment to consider on a horse. Just goes to show there’s always an ‘exception’ to every rule, and usually for a very good reason.

[pandorasboxx]

I ride in the NE & SE and rarely have seen them used. Many rides I’ve been to have water crossings and that is a danger if the horse slips or falls.

I cannot abide any martingales. I’ve always seen it as a failure on the riders part by using some sort of tie down to get the headset you want.

[Romantic_Rider]

[QUOTE=Gestalt;2967050]
Thanks RR, that is what I was wondering. Is the “safety factor” because they can’t get their head so out of control? It might be possible to regain their mind more quickly if they weren’t able to fling their head up.

The pix were of the race in Dubia(sp?). But I was just looking at 2006 Tevis and many horses had them there too.

My horse can really reach for the stars when he sees mules, even though we run across some on a monthly basis. Somedays he is more prone to react then others. :rolleyes:

As far as running martingales being a shortcut, well to me it would be like trying different bits.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, my little mare will try to put her nose in the air and turn to one side when she wants to get away from something. If I can’t pull her nose back down, via a running martingale, it might not be a good situation. But I think alot of these fit, high-strung Arabians are just naturally high-headed. My Anglo mare has a gorgeous long, powerful neck, and she naturally, even in the pasture carries her head high. I ride her in a snaffle, (I find my Arabs too sensitive to go in curb chains), and to bring her head down requires a martingale. I think alot of people use them for the same reasons.

[Auventera_Two]

I’ve seen a lot of them in the pictures on endurance.net and I figured the people needed them for a good reason.

I used a standing martingale on my Appendix mare one time and haven’t needed it again. A couple of years ago I was doing a lot of conditioning miles on the trails and she was getting in good shape. It seemed the fitter she got, the stupider she got, and the more she just wanted to run. I kept most of the miles at a working trot, but she was always wanting to take off. I changed bits quite a bit trying to find someting she liked. She kept throwing her head up and leaping forward in 1 or 2 huge canter strides before I’d get her back to the trot.

I went to the 20m circle for awhile doing slow circles, suppling, half halts, cavaletti, working around cones, and basically re-establishing decent manners and soft aids. She was doing really great, and adjusting her stride, really listening to my seat, so we hit the trail again.

The old habits seemed to be gone, but during one ride she threw her head up and hit me in the forehead with her poll and ruptured my ear drum from the force. No, I was not wearing a helmet. So an ER visit later I was determined to put a halt to this little problem once and for all.

I put a roper noseband on her, a leather tiedown and hit the trail. We were trotting along doing some nice lengthening and collecting with half halts. She was really soft, really on the aids and doing great. Then she threw that head up hard. Hit the end of the tie down hard enough to pull the saddle forward in front of her withers. I had to dismount and she stood there chewing her mouth and flipping her ears around all over the place - like what the heck just happened to me?

She’s never done it again, and I’ve not used the tie down anymore. So in this case I felt it was warranted, it fixed the problem, and I didn’t think it was a shortcut in training. I think she just needed to learn a good hard lesson that certain things are just not nice.

[pandorasboxx]

No offense to those that use martingales. I don’t know anyone that uses them and even though my horse is high headed under saddle or in the pasture, its never been a problem such as I’ve read here.

I’m sure if it works for folks to use one then by all means use whatever you have at your disposal. My primary concern is a horse drowning if it slips and falls in water and cannot get it’s head up.

[sublimequine]

I know I’m gonna get flamed for this by all the endurance riders around here, but SHEESH, I’m sure glad I don’t ride a crazy head-flipping Arab. I couldn’t imagine getting my face bashed in by my low headset QH’s poll. :lol:

As for the head-flippers themselves, I can definitely understand the safety issue of using a martingale… but if you’re worried the horse is going to clock you in the face, don’t you think that should be addressed and solved before hitting the trails in the first place? :eek:

[goodhors]

I am a non-running martingale person. It is a training device, may be needed for a short time, then removed. If you have a head flipper, horse that like to be a giraffe, go to a standing martingale or a tie down. Both can be removed for any water crossings, as a safety feature. They have a thicker strap on the nose area, only come into work when the nose it raised too high. Much better padding on horse than hitting martingale rings with the reins, grabbing his mouth. The western tie down, felt lined, wide, are soft on bony noses, easy to wash in the machine. Almost no weight on the head. You can run the tie-down strap from girth on up thru the breastcollar center all the endurance horses wear, so no saggy long strap either.

I consider a horse that “is too sensitive for a curb strap” to be untrained, ignorant. Has not been trained to accept the strap pressure, give to the bit. Maybe hands on bit are stronger than they feel, with shanks on bit. Horse doesn’t know how to give to curb pressure, so curb is really a surprise, biting him on chin. My bit shanks are very short, 1/2 inch to 1 inch below mouthpiece. All the power I need on a trained horse.

I think the constant weight of the running martingales rings and straps, on the bit’s reins, always pulling down on bit a little while horse is moving head, would be irritating. Add in the steady bit contact many riders use as they go along. Like sand in my socks rubbing or a constantly sliding, swinging, heavy purse you can’t get to stay put… Just nagging all the time, pesky. I would think their mouths would be fairly insensitive with the pressure on bars and tongue.

Just because you see lots of folks using a particular piece of equipment, doesn’t mean it is the best choice for the job. Think out of the Endurance Box of methods, current styles you see. Go look at other equipment from other disciplines. Arabs are CERTAINLY NOT the only head flippers around. Standing martingales and tie-downs come from the TB, QH and Western areas. Similar conditions, horses being stressed working, whether hunting, jumping, running calves or barrels.

Self-protection is not something to be ignored, but other methods may be more beneficial than running martingales. You have to look at the side-effects with horse. If you are not prepared, the running martingale is not going to work, when he spooks and jerks the reins run right out of your hands, hits you in the face anyway. The tie-down or standing martingale, is ALWAY correctly adjusted, ready in place, but in action ONLY when horse puts it to use.

I think running martingales are more popular because rider can always claim to be “training” the horse. The tie-down and standing martingale, say horse may be a head flipper, is so dressed in case he decides to toss his head “sometime”.

Mine wore a tie-down on all our trail rides, because you never knew WHEN she would decide to do it. Might be weeks between a head flip. I admitted she had a problem, dressed her for it, EVERY outing. I don’t have any fake front teeth, head, jaw or neck problems because I worked to prevent my getting any injuries. She was a great horse to take out, just had that one darn hole when she got aggrevated.

[sublimequine]

[QUOTE=goodhors;2968822]
I am a non-running martingale person. It is a training device, may be needed for a short time, then removed. If you have a head flipper, horse that like to be a giraffe, go to a standing martingale or a tie down. Both can be removed for any water crossings, as a safety feature. They have a thicker strap on the nose area, only come into work when the nose it raised too high. Much better padding on horse than hitting martingale rings with the reins, grabbing his mouth. The western tie down, felt lined, wide, are soft on bony noses, easy to wash in the machine. Almost no weight on the head. You can run the tie-down strap from girth on up thru the breastcollar center all the endurance horses wear, so no saggy long strap either.

I consider a horse that “is too sensitive for a curb strap” to be untrained, ignorant. Has not been trained to accept the strap pressure, give to the bit. Maybe hands on bit are stronger than they feel, with shanks on bit. Horse doesn’t know how to give to curb pressure, so curb is really a surprise, biting him on chin. My bit shanks are very short, 1/2 inch to 1 inch below mouthpiece. All the power I need on a trained horse.

I think the constant weight of the running martingales rings and straps, on the bit’s reins, always pulling down on bit a little while horse is moving head, would be irritating. Add in the steady bit contact many riders use as they go along. Like sand in my socks rubbing or a constantly sliding, swinging, heavy purse you can’t get to stay put… Just nagging all the time, pesky. I would think their mouths would be fairly insensitive with the pressure on bars and tongue.

Just because you see lots of folks using a particular piece of equipment, doesn’t mean it is the best choice for the job. Think out of the Endurance Box of methods, current styles you see. Go look at other equipment from other disciplines. Arabs are CERTAINLY NOT the only head flippers around. Standing martingales and tie-downs come from the TB, QH and Western areas. Similar conditions, horses being stressed working, whether hunting, jumping, running calves or barrels.

Self-protection is not something to be ignored, but other methods may be more beneficial than running martingales. You have to look at the side-effects with horse. If you are not prepared, the running martingale is not going to work, when he spooks and jerks the reins run right out of your hands, hits you in the face anyway. The tie-down or standing martingale, is ALWAY correctly adjusted, ready in place, but in action ONLY when horse puts it to use.

I think running martingales are more popular because rider can always claim to be “training” the horse. The tie-down and standing martingale, say horse may be a head flipper, is so dressed in case he decides to toss his head “sometime”.

Mine wore a tie-down on all our trail rides, because you never knew WHEN she would decide to do it. Might be weeks between a head flip. I admitted she had a problem, dressed her for it, EVERY outing. I don’t have any fake front teeth, head, jaw or neck problems because I worked to prevent my getting any injuries. She was a great horse to take out, just had that one darn hole when she got aggrevated.[/QUOTE]

You know, I was wondering about that too. Seems for a head flipper a tiedown or standing martingale would be a much better option. You can adjust it so it basically doesn’t come into play at all until the horse actually tries to flip the head. Running martingales can’t do that. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen an endurance horse in a standing martingale.

[Auventera_Two]

@sublimequine;2968887

You know, I was wondering about that too. Seems for a head flipper a tiedown or standing martingale would be a much better option. You can adjust it so it basically doesn’t come into play at all until the horse actually tries to flip the head. Running martingales can’t do that. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen an endurance horse in a standing martingale.

That’s what I always thought too, but I don’t know much about martingales. I’ve always wondered exactly “what” a running martingale does??? I’m not saying it doesn’t do anything, just saying, I don’t understand it so that’s why I went with the tie down. That one I understood!

[tabula_rashah]

I use running martingales on all of my trail horses. They are adjusted properly so that they have no effect unless the horse wants to put his head up to the sky. I don’t use them in the ring unless I am jumping or barrel racing. When I was eventing I used to use them cross country and was told (and this seems to be very true by practice) that having the running martingale on helped keep the reins from flipping over a horse’s head if you were dumped.

[mysaygrace]

I use a running martingale on my mare and it has definitely saved my butt a few times. It’s my safety net when we run into problems. I learned the hard way after having my orbital joint cracked & spending time in the emgerency room. My mare doen’t always access the situations and reacts quickly & unexpectedly. She’s a former halter horse (before we got her) and her brain was pretty fried. I’ve spent years of slowly bringing her along after the halter years, she’s now a lovely trail, ctr, and future enduance horse. She & I aren’t neccesarrily a match made in heaven but everyday we meet our challenges together and try to get by. So, if the head flinging issue is to be “addressed before hitting the trail” like mentioned in a previous post then we’d never get out there. Life’s too short to be ring bound because my mare has “issues”. No horse or person is perfect. I use what works for us. So I guess Yes to some I’m taking the “shortcut to decent riding” or I have “poor/horsemanship skills” and I look like I’m “training” my horse because of a piece of tack I have on my mare then so be it. Until you’re riding a mile in my paddock boots don’t label or judge me, we’ve come a long way and I refuse to give up on my equine parnter or myself, we’ll always be a work in progress. Kudos to those of you who are “perfect” riders and don’t have problems with your mount. But please don’t look down at others because of simple piece of tack that happens to help some of us. Oh and I ride her in a hackamore so the weight from the martingale isn’t hanging on the bars of her mouth if you’re worried about that.

[gothedistance]

Figured I might as well answer the question addressed:

@Gestalt;2966723

Why are so many endurance horses ridden with a running martingale? Is this for control? I was on endurance.net looking at pictures and noticed most, if not all, the horses at a particular race had it on. Is it more prevelant in others countries?

Running martingales are not “standard equipment” for an endurance horse. People that elect to use a running martingale use it for the same reason it is found on horses in other sports – such as jumping, eventing, hunting, etc – because it offers control over the range of upward motion the horse’s head can attain. If the horse puts it’s head above the level of control to where the bit becomes a straight pull back into the horse’s molars, the rider will find it difficult to steer or control the horse. Whether it is more prevalant in other countries is hard to say – it is usually a ‘rider by rider’ choice, not a standard in endurance, just like treed vs treeless saddles.

Anyway, just wondering what the benefits would be. I have a horse that on occasion will raise his head and try to evade contact. (usually happens when he sees a mule or donkey :lol:)

Benefits are: horse can be controlled from lifting it’s head too far in the air and not paying attention to the trail or failure to steer … and… it only works when pressure is applied to the bit. It is not effective if the reins are loose, nor is it an encumberance. That’s about it.

It isn’t really designed to be used on a horse that “flings” it’s head into the air because the action of the martingale negatively impacts the rider’s hands in breaking the line of contact to the horse’s mouth, plus the pressure is applied straight downward to the jawbone in a very tender part of the mouth. A horse that flings it’s head is better suited to having a standing martingale which bumps the nose, not the bars of the mouth.

Also, it is useless for preventing the reins from flipping over the head – if the bight of the reins passes the ears, the cause is already lost.

[chicamuxen1]

ARRRRGGGGG!!! Stop, think, understand the mechanics of how things work. The vast overwhelming majority of horse people just don’t know the principles behind the correct use of a running martingale.

1- It’s the standing martingale, adjusted short, that is dangerous when crossing water and preventing a horse from raising it’s head. Not the running martingale.

2 - RMs were designed for use with snaffle bits, not bits with curb chains, shanks and poll pressure (like kimberwicks and pelhams and western curb bits). Snaffles! Snaffle bits (and there are unjointed snaffles also) are bits that sit on the bars and tonque of the horses mouth and function by pressure on the bars and the tonque. There is no pressure against the chin or poll pressure like with a curb bit. Curb action rather easily will lower a horses head position and cause the horse to tuck their chin without a whole lot of training. The horse picks that up pretty quickly on their own. But a horse has to be taught to accept the connection of the riders hands to the bit sitting on the bars and to soften and give. For many horses and riders that learning process is never complete or works well in calm, everyday situations. The rider ideally has this nice line from their elbows thru their hands, down the reins to the bit which is sitting on the bars of the horses mouth and allows the rider to turn or slow/stop the horse BECAUSE the bit is on the bars.

3- What happens if the bit isn’t on the horses bars? Say your horse is suddenly passed by another horse on the trail, a challenge!!! Up comes the horse’s nose, up comes the head and the race is on! as soon as the nose comes above a certain point the rider is only pulling on the stretchy lips at the corners of the horse’s mouth, the bit isn’t on the bars, it’s on rubbery lips. A one rein stop will still work but the bit can’t function in a normal way unless it sits on those bars. A curb bit would still work in this situation, that’s one reason that kimberwicks are so popular. A hackamore or curb bit will work but not the snaffle as long as the horse keeps his nose high. Oh, lordy!!! By the way, the same scenario happens when a rider raises their hands too high. We’ve all seen a paniced novice rider screaming as a school horse bolts around the arena, waving their hands around the level of their ears.

4 - The RM appropriately fitted is quite loose and will never put pressure on the reins until either the horse raises his head AND nose up high, or the rider raises their hands up high. It’s actually a good prevention against really high handed sloppy riders. It’s not a pulley to force the horse’s head down, it’s function is to keep the bit in place on the bars of the horse’s mouth so that the bit can work properly and be used to slow and guide the horse.

5 - Do a lot of people use the RM in an incorrect manner? YES!!! But you can use it correctly, it does have it’s place for some horses, some riders, some situations. If you’ve ever been on a fit horse that say yeehaww let’s race!!! you would realize that all the training in the world can go out the window in a heart beat. This is a very good reason to teach yourself and your horse the use of the one rein stop also.

Sorry if I sound like a lecture, it’s just that it’s all in the understanding of how bit’s work. There is no good reason to put a RM on a curb bit. If you do then you aren’t using it right.

chicamuxen

[sublimequine]

[QUOTE=chicamuxen1;2969151]

3- What happens if the bit isn’t on the horses bars? Say your horse is suddenly passed by another horse on the trail, a challenge!!! Up comes the horse’s nose, up comes the head and the race is on! as soon as the nose comes above a certain point the rider is only pulling on the stretchy lips at the corners of the horse’s mouth, the bit isn’t on the bars, it’s on rubbery lips. A one rein stop will still work but the bit can’t function in a normal way unless it sits on those bars. A curb bit would still work in this situation, that’s one reason that kimberwicks are so popular. A hackamore or curb bit will work but not the snaffle as long as the horse keeps his nose high. Oh, lordy!!! By the way, the same scenario happens when a rider raises their hands too high. We’ve all seen a paniced novice rider screaming as a school horse bolts around the arena, waving their hands around the level of their ears. [/QUOTE]

This doesn’t make sense to me. Don’t you think an endurance horse would be quite accustomed and trained to deal with other horses passing it? To me if I see a horse having a meltdown just because another horse passes it, it doesn’t need a martingale. It needs to be trained properly! :no:

Also, you did say sorry for the lecture etc, and expressing frustration that folks don’t know how the running martingale works, but that’s the entire point of this thread. That’s why folks are asking about it, to learn about it. None of us are saying we’re experts on it, so what’s the use in getting mad at folks who don’t know but WANT to learn? :sigh:

[chicamuxen1]

You can train and train but sometimes some riders just aren’t ever there. Yes, it would be great if all of us had our act together, all the time and all of our horses remembered their training and never chose to ignor it. Not a reality though for lot’s of folks. Actually, a lot of people to switch trail riding and mabe compete in endurance and CTR left what they used to do with horses because they were frustrated with their riding or their horse’s performance. Out on the trails they aren’t judged (NATRC excepted). So, lot’s of folks in endurance riding just aren’t all that skilled with their hands. Hey, that’s life, and it’s too short to not go on and get out and compete and have fun. But even the best rider and best horse can have their moments. So, if you have a horse that has given you a few heart stopping moments because of a “control” issue caused by a high nose, it may make sense to use a RM in a preventive and properly adjusted way.

Hey, I haven’t used one in years, I own a couple of dusty ones, and just yesterday Mouse gave me some really high flips with his nose and and a short attempt at a bolt on his way home. I ride him in a hackamore, (no place for a martingale), he’s what I would consider to be a very well trained horse and very reliable 99% of the time. But whahoo and away!!! And there wasn’t another horse around. So, training doesn’t always work. And for some folks, it never will be their strong suit.

chicamuxen

[saratoga]

I dont see too many folks using them in the SW/PS region.

I dont really like them- I used one on my mare when she was very green on the trail, just because I wanted to lessen my chances of her being able to throw her head up and bolt. But I found that it compromised my lateral control. I liked the German martingale better but now that my horses are well trained and seasoned on the trail, I dont feel the need for either.

I think probably for the endurance riders who race, they may be necessary because the faster you go, the faster the horses want to go and the harder it is to keep your own pace. I dont race so I dont find this to be particularly true in my case for endurance, but I know when I event, I would not ever ride my Tb. cross country in a plain snaffle. I need more control because he wants to go, is a lot stronger than I am and even though he is very well trained, the adrenaline is flowing and I NEED some control.