Sad situations that are going to be happening too much...

[mbm]

[QUOTE=Carolinadreamin’;5161716]
Alagirl, I think the point a few posters made about the tall grasses/weeds was they would ground out the fence should they be in contact with the tape/wire.[/QUOTE]

welll… i know plenty of hot tape/wire fences that have grass/weeds growing on/thru them and teh wire/tape is still very very hot.

maybe has to do with the size of the charger?

i also want to point out again the google street image of the front of her property.

and also, her acreage is bounded by trees so horses would have plenty of shelter besides her 3 sided shelter. you can see all this detail on google earth.

[jeta]

@Angela Freda;5161681

Did they tell her ‘you need better fencing’, and she upped the amps on the tape? Did they tell her to add a 2nd strand or even more? And she didn’t?
Or did she do nothing? We do not know.

I have followed this debate and try to take a neutral stance until the real story comes out, but this statement really struck a nerve…Really??

Regardless of the facts we do or do not know of and what is really going on here do you really think someone needed to tell her that her fencing was not cutting it? I will go out on a limb here and assume that PP is not a newbie horseowner… Adaquate fencing should be a prerequesite to keeping horses outside…It is just common sense…I don’t follow her posts, but from info gleaned from others that do, it would appear that escapes were common enough that it should have caused her to step back and say: “Gee, I think some modifications are in order to keep my herd safe”…Someone shouldn’t have had to tell her anything…This is basic stuff…We don’t need to know how she spends her money other than she didn’t appear to have her fencing in RELIABLE SERVICABLE condition to contain her animals and keep them safe and on her own property…

Whatever your belief system is on housing is irrelevent as the law of the land she lives in dictates what was required to allow her to keep her horses…It is what it is…So arguing what horses can withstand or the somantics of the wording of what is deemed cruel is not really helpful or even relevent to the requirements of where SHE houses horses…

JMHO…

[Alagirl]

@Carolinadreamin';5161757

Talking about assumptions…

glad the shoe you volunteered to put on fits you so well.

[LLDM]

@Alagirl;5161739

So you based you opinion on a few pictures and yes, I googled the infractions, too, all I found was a conviction in January, the 11th, to be precise, and a fine of 750$.

^The infraction was on 1/11/10. The conviction was in July for cruelty and carried a $750 fine. To be precise.

I consider the news story bias and not representative, and given how I can make my messy lot look good, I don’t put too much stake in the pictures either.
Well, I did put a fair amount of stock in the pictures. At least the one of the notice on the gate that can be seen also on the video. Plus there was a link to her address on Google maps that had both street views and the ability to do overhead views of how the property is laid out.

That leaves you knowledge on how the front gate is the only way to her house.
See above. Not rocket science. No inside information.

I have seen a similar sensationalistic story from both sides before, I don’t jump to conclusions of guild or innosence on second hand sources…
As someone once said, I didn’t jump, I just turned around and there it was.

Really, I started out very much neural on this. But the more I followed links, read PPs own posts and thought it through, the more I realized that PP could have easily NOT put her horses in the position they now find themselves.

She could have stayed home rather than leave them in inadequate fencing for over two weeks. Had she been home, they would not likely have been seized.

Maybe she is getting shafted. But she seemed to have known what was going on before she left. She certainly knew her neighbors were unhappy via her own posts. She knew she was on AC’s radar from her previous encounter. She knew there were issues, which she started a thread about! She chose to leave anyway.

You could not have removed me from my home with dynamite if I thought there were people trying to take my horses or if I knew that they were in inadequate fencing.

PP is a grownup. She’s made choices. Now she must live with the consequences. Just like everybody else. Life is not always fair. No one ever promised it would be. But that doesn’t absolve anybody of responsibility they take on themselves or give them a pass on dealing with the reality of a situation because they choose to go on vacation.

SCFarm

[Carolinadreamin]

Alagirl, don’t know what your problem is! All I did was post that the posts people have made about the weeds weren’t about neatness, it was about concern that the tall weeds would ground out the fence.

So you’re saying everyone who has posted anything negative on this thread is a ranting suburbia soccer mom? Really? Is that the best you can do?? That’s your response? I’ll make sure to inform Thomas.

[prairiewind2]

[QUOTE=jeta;5161759]
Whatever your belief system is on housing is irrelevent as the law of the land she lives in dictates what was required to allow her to keep her horses…It is what it is…So arguing what horses can withstand or the somantics of the wording of what is deemed cruel is not really helpful or even relevent to the requirements of where SHE houses horses…

JMHO…[/QUOTE]

I’m not arguing whether she broke the law or not. I haven’t said much about her situation because I don’t speculate on what I don’t know. I like facts before I make up my mind on any subject, and I don’t consider government opinion or media opinion as facts. There are too many ridiculous laws around, and too many incompetent reporters around, for me to consider either one of them beyond questioning.

So my postings have only related to side issues - and considering that a horse is cruelly treated if it doesn’t have a waterproof roof over its head is a pertinent side issue, imo. YMMV.

I do wonder about the term “helpful,” though. Have you really considered any part of this thread “helpful?”

Liz

[maybedog]

I really enjoy COTH forums and have actually found a wealth of info here but this thread reminds me why I read and seldom post. Why are there a select few that always have to look for the negative in people and then feel the need to bring it to everyones attention??? I have 20 yrs of forensic psych experience and YES, there is a diagnosis for this!!! For those that have way too much idle time on their hands and spend way too much time searching for any little iota of dirt to broadcast, SHAME ON YOU!! I hope you never make a mistake in life and are perfect. What goes around comes around. The bottom line is, this entire situation no ones business other than PintoPiaffe. Where is the thrill in getting in the middle of it?

[BaroquePony]

I concure. Thomas is definately a soccer mom.

[Alagirl]

@Carolinadreamin';5161769

Alagirl, don’t know what your problem is! All I did was post that the posts people have made about the weeds weren’t about neatness, it was about concern that the tall weeds would ground out the fence.

So you’re saying everyone who has posted anything negative on this thread is a ranting suburbia soccer mom? Really? Is that the best you can do?? That’s your response? I’ll make sure to inform Thomas.

That is your take on the situation I suppose. But maybe you step a bit back and try to look at the whole thing - or even all I posted - given that I was away for 5 days and did not manage to sift through 30 pages of the same old stuff yet.

There is little substance to the negativity, a lot of assumptions from people not even in the same time zone.
There is thumping on the law that also clearly states a time frame in which one must confirm to it.

There is a news report that is beyond poor, fed by sweet but clueless neighbors, though their involvement is not really clear either.

I like to point at the fishy details rather than jumping on the band wagon to light the fire under PP.
I did not follow here closely on the forum, but found her to be one of the more reasonable people.

I find it troublesome when people judge from their limited life experience on how other people should live or conduct themselves. And that contempt usually stems from the well off middle class females in the burbs, the stereo typical soccer moms. Usually they have no concept of life outside their little world, like the fact that you can actually live happily off grit without being poor or desolate. And unlike many parts of Europe, in the US it’s actually legal to do so.

So we have a google earth shot, no telling how old, and a news report of the ‘ZOMG’ variety and we jump to conclusions: PP is poor, has no electricity what so ever and her horses are never fed and watered and forage on the highway while she spend this month’s hey money and mortgage on fancy duds to strut around Ky…

I did not have the time to see if I could find the actual court documents on why she was fined $750 in January, nor why there was another charge pending.

Like I stated, if you believe she bred everything with a womb, you also should believe her to be a victim of vindictive people. Considering there are no foals on the ground the first is unlikely, but dismissing the second is equally dumb, I mean, it might not be likely, but it’s also not impossible. All you need is one nasty neighbor who does not even need to be close by, just a person with a chip on their shoulder!

But what really creeped me out the most is the AC being quoted with what essentially boils down to ‘yeah we got cases with animals actually starving, but we gave this priority’ Now THAT is a fish the size of Denmark!

[Carolinadreamin]

Thomas is also a kept man and shamefully mooches off his super-rich uber-smart lawyer wife! Thomas, you hussy!

signed,
not a soccermom, but resents that it should be considered an insult.

By the way, I agree that too many assumptions are being made. Who really and truly knows the situation unless you are actually there with PP or were a witness to what happened.

[LLDM]

@maybedog;5161774

I really enjoy COTH forums and have actually found a wealth of info here but this thread reminds me why I read and seldom post. Why are there a select few that always have to look for the negative in people and then feel the need to bring it to everyones attention??? I have 20 yrs of forensic psych experience and YES, there is a diagnosis for this!!! For those that have way too much idle time on their hands and spend way too much time searching for any little iota of dirt to broadcast, SHAME ON YOU!! I hope you never make a mistake in life and are perfect. What goes around comes around. The bottom line is, this entire situation no ones business other than PintoPiaffe. Where is the thrill in getting in the middle of it?

Well, from my perspective, I am more defending the AC people. I got a little tired of them being villainized when, in all likelihood, they had little choice. They are people too, you know.

What a thankless job! They can’t seem to make anyone happy. They are too slow. They are too quick. They can’t just go around like superman righting wrongs and saving animals. They have to try their level best to help the animals hamstrung by every law, statute and regulation on the books.

People treat them like crap and expect them to fix every problem without stepping on any ones’ toes.

Is there a diagnosis for that?

SCFarm

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=maybedog;5161774]
I really enjoy COTH forums and have actually found a wealth of info here but this thread reminds me why I read and seldom post. Why are there a select few that always have to look for the negative in people and then feel the need to bring it to everyones attention??? I have 20 yrs of forensic psych experience and YES, there is a diagnosis for this!!! For those that have way too much idle time on their hands and spend way too much time searching for any little iota of dirt to broadcast, SHAME ON YOU!! I hope you never make a mistake in life and are perfect. What goes around comes around. The bottom line is, this entire situation no ones business other than PintoPiaffe. Where is the thrill in getting in the middle of it?[/QUOTE]

fine - matey but when one makes one mistake thats fine we can all live with making mistakes but to do the same more than once isnt a mistake

the old saying is learn by yor mistakes------- in pp case shes already up for
a serious of mistakes so one isnt learning
keep doing the same you will get the same result- and pp is known to ac

and to add some say neighbours gleeful

then one needs to look at it differently ------- would i be gleeful if i see a pile of neddies that could hurt them seves or other memebrs of the public
or cuase a road accident - and that ac arrived and took them away

yeha i would - why- becuase something being done and the poor neds are not left in the same sernerio doing the same thing time and time and time again

like isad one mistake is a mistake - but to keep doing the same isnt a mistake pp has a choice but she chose to hop off and neglected to improve the mistakes before pp went off to weg

[BasqueMom]

Alagirl,

There’s a lot that bothers me also about this seizure…a 12 hour notice when
the law states 72 hours. Yep, the remark about cases of actually starving
animals but this one given priority raised another flag here.

They took two cats, one outside, one inside. How did they get inside? Can AC actually break into your house when you aren’t home? Did they relock the doors or were they even able to do such after getting in?

Another report said they came back for a litter of kittens in the house–
whoops–someone at AC later discover one of the cats was nursing? Again, how and what authority to enter when the homeowner is not home? Did AC “trash” the place looking for the kittens? Did AC leave the house unlocked
and that along with all the publicity the owner was “out of state” contribute to the theft of tack?

There are so many unanswered questions and many are, frankly, none of our
business.

One question that I keep asking myself–would the condemnation on this board have been so high if PP had been anywhere other than the World Equestrian Games–say a family emergency involving her elderly parents who live out of state, job training at an out-of-town location, anything but attending the World Equestrian Games that most of us didn’t get to attend?

[goeslikestink]

to add something

my horses live and back onto roads those cothers that have seen my place know full well that at one side i am right next to a motorway the whole length of my yard to the other is a no through road, at the top it goes on to a little side road that gets bissy through the village

the motorway side has double fencing , 1st is part 8ft enclosed panels from top of the lane to middle field as there are houses so it blocks out some noise of the motorway - from middle to end as with the 8ft panals i have a proepr post and rail fence system which is four rials high and topped wth barewire and has dug into the ground rabbit fencing then there a gap which is filled via shurbs and trees and then another lot of fencing which is the same and added via self
i have this fence line 3/4 all the way round to also enclude part of the no through way side of the road and at the top and bottom of my yard
thats the boundary fence line
the part thats not been done yet due to lack of funds and being out of work
and being made redundant is part of the top field lane side and part of the middle field lane side
in those places in the middle lane side i have stock fencing and posts every 3mtres and barewire to top it, the top field lane side has 6ft stock fencing
all be a little bit of that top field is a bit naughty as leans over due to lorries comming out of neighbours commercial yard
these parts i know i have to address and they will be duely done now i am back in work
but the top field as its unsecure a bit isnt used its being rested
that common sense if it dodgy then dont use that area thats one point made
which pp could have done simular
as thats commonsense

2nd point - my yard isnt posh and i dont have a house on it as i dont live there
which means i am not there 24/7 so horses are left to ther own devices when iam not there as iam at work just liek the rest or most off us are

but - the horses are contained if not in the middle field they are rotated to the bottom field, with good access to water via bath well 2 actually which ahs a hose pipe in which is connected to the mains water tank which is a running self filling tank
we as in myself and duaghter fill the water up often, as in morning lunch time and evening if still out, as mine are brought in at night
due to the fact that the motorway was extended and took half my acreage away so my horses can not live out 24/7 no more
so i have to alter my mamangement plan to suit there needs so that ican keep all the horses on the same property sstill
they all have stables to live and i also have plenty of shelter in my field but its natural not man made if how ever the weather was iffy then they are brought in

and the reason why i bring them in its not just to protect them from serious weather conditions its to save what little i have as i now have just under 2acres wheres befor i had over 4 acres
so i have to make good use of what i have and to have as much grass as i can possible get on the ground i have to help feed and to help them have a geneal mosey about eating and munching and i also have to supplement that munch time outside

so i have three fields about 1/2 acre in each the top has the mains water tank and little corneered off sick bay paddock and 1st gate acess from lane side and has acess gate to middle field - does have shelter under trees which backs onto the little shed which can house 5 poines ranging from 11.2 - 17.2hh as the roof is slanted

the middle has 2nd gate and main gate we use more than the other one
as stables or what i call sheds are there has plenty of baths for water access
but no shelter other than using the trees asin hawthrone trees to stand behind

the bottom has acess gate to middle field, and has plenty of natueral shelter via trees and a little wooded area right at the bottom and plenty of trees fencline with an odd couple in the middle agian hawthorne bushes

so , why- i dont turn them out when dour pours or really wet
it saves my ground from being churned up into a muddy mess which doesnt benifit anyone not me not the horses - simple
i have little grass and i wont as much grass as i can get with out it becoming a bog and nothing to eat at all - simple

i rota my fields to a worming programme so that all worms if any drop out in the field they using and the new field they going to be put in is clean and worm free
i pooh pick every day so that prevents worms and paracites
i put out hay as in round bale and splite it up on a daily baises and i laso clean that area around the bale when pooh picking so i dont get a ton of wastage as horses wont eat where they pooh or p so it mucked out around the bale it self and it also saves on the foot fall of the hroses when noshing said bale and spliting it up means every one has there own piles and a few extra as they are pile even as i have an odd no of horses

i am not rich like some but would consider my self to have a simular set up to pp as iam road side but not only road motorway sides as well so i have to make sure my horses a re in and contained
i also have a small acreage but i make that aacreage work as much as ican for me and my horses the area is clean tidy the bigger shed can house 4 large horses plus standing area for farrier or vet, plus feed room

my place is also has mains electric which i have invested in and put on myself same to with the water
and i also have a very large dump which gets taken away between every 2/3 yrs but also neighbour has some of it
i may be not posh but my yard is clean and well run with decent fencing mostly apart from the areas i stated which will chaneg once i have enough moeny to do so as i am updating the fenceline so in my old age i ahvent got to worry ever about them getting out and nor has my daughter id anything should happen to me and will say i rent this property but all the work i have done it myself i get no complaints from the farmer as he can see i look after it well

my point change of circumstanes and not once has this happened in my yard over the years but three times for me so i
had to alter what i orginally had which i will tell you 30 odd years ago was just a feild of yellow as in covered fro head to toe in toxic weed of ragwort, andheaps of blooming rubbish and metal it took 36 skips to get rid of the rubbish it had no fenceline and no boundary fencing and no water and no electric
over the years and evey year i do something to make it better, and over the years i ahve no ragwort that went early asap when the rubbish went
but do have the odd bit now and agin when pops it gone it took hard labour of self to hand pull that stuff up, and burn

and its the 2nd time round the motorway has been altered and my ground lost orginally was 6acres way way back

so point is - no excuse for not getting down and using what you have
to contain your horses if you really love them then you do what you can
and make it safe for them to be there so that you can enjoy haivng them and owning them
and this goes for all the equipment used on them - my sheds are made from timber and tin as in tin roof and wooded sides for large shed little shed is all tin as in roofing tin so its coregated and then as in all post they are old telegraph poles so last for yonks and they are 4ft in the ground

[Huntertwo]

@Angela Freda;5161388

And what efforts did they take to find her or get hold of her? The neighbors knew she left the state. That’s an interesting piece of information. How did they know that, by following her to the state line? Or because she mentioned it or her trip or they heard of it through the grapevine most small towns have rampantly growing in them? And if the neighbors knew she was away, and perhaps where and why, seems to me some actual investigating might have gone a long way to contacting her. Yes I know, asking them to spend time investigating is so much more effort than rounding up and trailering those horses and then caring for them for weeks or months while this plays out.

If the horses were seized because they were loose, which it appears you are assuming, well… they weren’t. The neighbors, at the advice of AC, contained them. Ie, problem solved, so why seize? Leave them where they are, and keep trying to contact her to apprise her of the problem, and work out a solution to tide over until she gets back. Maybe, just maybe had they contacted her they would have learned of the sitter and could have found local help with the situation? Heck, maybe wait around for the sitter to show up and figure out how to best contain the animals until PP returned.

All of that sure would have saved the town/county/state the cost of housing and caring for animals that otherwise [based on the limited evidence of video/pics we have here] did not need intervention.

WTF??? Is the AC now supposed to be pet sitters???

Do you think they have the time and resources to track her down, considering they must get many similar calls on a daily basis??? Nor is it their responsibility to do so?

No, their responsibility is to the animals. Period. And if that means seizing them, so be it.

Do you think they have nothing more important to do than to sit in front of PP’s house waiting for the pet sitter to show up?

Again, the neighbors are at fault…Good God!

This is why this country is freaking falling apart! It is your responsibility and stop blaming everyone else for the end result!!

[EqTrainer]

[QUOTE=BaroquePony;5161779]
I concure. Thomas is definately a soccer mom.[/QUOTE]

More likely a soccer grandpa. I was at my ten years olds game last week and had to tell one elderly man that it was not the Olympics… Ranting and raving really doesn’t help anyone.

[Huntertwo]

@Carolinadreamin';5161769

Alagirl, don’t know what your problem is! All I did was post that the posts people have made about the weeds weren’t about neatness, it was about concern that the tall weeds would ground out the fence.

So you’re saying everyone who has posted anything negative on this thread is a ranting suburbia soccer mom? Really? Is that the best you can do?? That’s your response? I’ll make sure to inform Thomas.

I bet we all drive mini-vans too in Alagirls mind…:lol:

[scheherazadetbmare]

www.ourstory.com/larrytdoughty re: the seizure

Present at the seizure on October 6th were, in addition to the driver of the trailer:

Dr. Christine Fraser, DVM, Maine Animal Welfare
Attorney Christina Perkins, Chairwoman of the Animal Welfare
Advisory Council
Maine Animal Welfare District Agent Chrissy Perry
and Dedham AC officer Daniel Joy
Unnamed Maine state patrol officer

For those of you who think this is some conspiracy of the neighbors and AC to harm some what is it, “poor and powerless” person, the people listed above are a pretty good representation of state and local agencies. For so many agencies to be there, one might think that PP has had some prior issues that are now going to be fully and finally addressed.
Unless you think the people listed above are all in a conspiracy with the neighbors and that these people all removed hay and feed and all water from there just to get one “poor and powerless” person.
I feel sorry for PP, but she obviously needs to quit breeding animals until she gets financially stable.

[fivehorses]

Some of the posts on here really make me wonder…about the horsekeeping skills of some folks. I also wonder about the idea that it is everyone’s fault but PP.

First off, horses were left for an extended time per the neighbors…do you really expect the owner of horses to call up and say, hey, I left my horses and not sure if my farm sitter is showing up…it usually is neighbors who report alleged abuse or neglect, not the owner.Secondly, maybe the aco had her number to contact, and maybe they didn’t, or maybe PP did not respond…who knows…I am neither of those parties.

lastly, that shelter that collapsed last winter…give me a break. Real cozy and warm, the water doesn’t freeze…really? That was per PP’s account in a previous link showing her shelter. I don’t think its much warmer than outside, and since it is zone 5 in dedham, maine, guess what…the average minimum temps there are -20 to-10? Can someone explain how it is that much warmer or how water doesn’t freeze in PP’s shelter? As far as that…its a shade shelter, not meant to shelter or keep water, etc out. Additionally, yes, maybe some roofs collapsed, but this is why we have code to build to the highest snow load, not the least. It is also why either I shovel or hire someone to shovel my flatter roofs. We also have a thing called a snow rake for that very purpose.

So, for those of you who think fencing, water, and shelter are not some of the basic standard of care for an animal, wow, I am sorry, but I think you need to go back to pony club or to 4h or to your local university cooperative extension and learn about why these things are important since obviously you don’t know.

I have lost total respect for many on this particular forum for defending the conditions that were reported, ie no water, and the pics…fencing and lack of shelter, and a round pen for 3 horses to live in. Never mind prior conviction and ongoing monitoring by ACO. I understand supporting PP…I get that. But some of you really scare me with recounts of how you keep and manage your horses. I think that has botheres me the most, the outcrying of ‘its not that bad’. Are you fricking kidding me?

Lastly, I want to emphasize my agreement about personal responsibility. If there was shelter, decent fencing, etc, and this was an emergency why PP was away and the neighbors called the ACO because it appeared the horses were without water or anyone caring for them, I would bet PP would be kissing their feet.

[Alagirl]

@Huntertwo;5161925

I bet we all drive mini-vans too in Alagirls mind…:lol:

I am pretty sure you ride a broom!