It’s not illegal there, and it’s quite a popular, um, “sport”.
Dreams, Lifestyle Choices and Ugly Financial Reality
It appears the several folk in Dedham, Maine, haven’t been paying their real estate taxes.
http://www.dedhamme.org/assets/Outstanding_Taxes_Due._May_14_2010.pdf
Another “fact” for the bonfire of the vanities.
[QUOTE=His Greyness;5164216]
It appears the several folk in Dedham, Maine, haven’t been paying their real estate taxes.
http://www.dedhamme.org/assets/Outstanding_Taxes_Due._May_14_2010.pdf
Another “fact” for the bonfire of the vanities.[/QUOTE]
Why would you even THINK to research and post this? Just plain meanness. You should be ashamed of yourself.
[QUOTE=LLDM;5164072]
Excuse me. But people “rush to judgment” every day. Part of living, learning and coping with life involves evaluating situations and making judgment calls about them.
Yes, a lot of people have tried to piece together what happened on this thread. We may not know much, but there is a fair amount of information floating around out there. There are all of PP own postings. There are not just news stories, which may or may not be accurate, but there are also pictures and videos. There are also court records.
The scenario I came up with at least tries to peice together what facts we have AND give PP the benefit of the doubt. It’s more than her supporters have done. They are just happy to slam the system and act like “the gob’ment” is out to get PP. I get so tired of that attitude.
I my opinion, there is no more compelling reason to believe that the AC did anything wrong anymore than there is to believe that PP did. PP’s own words posted on this BB do more to impinge her than any other.
What boggles my mind is that just because someone has met her in real life or on the internet and thinks she’s nice somehow translates into some type of knowledge that she didn’t break the law. Esp. when there is already a cruelty charge, conviction and fine on public record less than a year old.
There are probably people who think that the AC people who made the seizure are good hardworking people who have dedicated their lives to helping animals. Treating them like they are terrible people isn’t so nice either. Why is one so much more moral than the other?
SCFarm[/QUOTE]
she wont be as like me and some others that understand the rules throughly
and understand what minium care is as which others dont get
the situation here with pp is below mimuim care
as in lack off
and will add as i have said before one mistake is a mistake
but doing the same old thing for nearly 2 years isnt a mistake its irresponsible ownership
also add as i have said before pp had from jan2010 if you moaning about the shelter when it fell down till now when horses taken
to do something its now 10months later and nothing been done
pp had 10months to improve the situation
as regards to horses getting out until now this started of in 2008 which we know about and its now oct 2010 and they still getting out
then and until now pp had 18months to do something to change her situation
but one cant be bothered to put right something that important such as a boundary fence or shelter
and one if that short of dosh they wouldnt be going away to weg
bottom line is if you loved your horses you would sort it
and will add i have been there more than once with no dosh but dont let my horses suffer, if my shelter came down and i had no money , then i would be on the looky looky and asky asky of finding stuff to fix it with
local landfill sites and local places that hold rubbish often have seperates
for metal paper cardboard, metal goes to scrap dealers , so would look scrap dealers from some corragated tin, or local farmers see if they have any for sale local building sites oftne chuck out decent wood they want to get rid off likewise business parks do, like pallets useful things for hay
as some have to go back to the companies which are normally blue one or marked ones the others dont they get chucked out,
local painters , decoraters, and builders do the same thing
for example when my baths have had it, as i use old baths for water in my other fields then i am off to a local plumbers merchant or bathroom show room as they fit new ones and chuck out old ones all you have to do is take the taps off and handles and keep the plug and its servicable for horses water and it holds as i know this for fact
8 x5 gallon drums gallons of water which will last 2 horses all day you need 3 baths for 6 horses
if you have a freindly farmer or got on with your neighbours you ask for help
but mre than likely this didnt occur to pp to ask so over time its p her neighbours off with horses getting out and has upset them and you know what they propbably more than likely would have helped her out a bit if she handled it differently right from the begining
my point is if your in stuck then there are things you can do to help yourself when you have no extra money you just ahve to use your brains and a tad of commonsense but you dont leave it you sort it
but one didnt do the obvious under there nose had pp acted slightly differently she would have realised her neighbours were ready to help if only she had asked as it shows that they did actually care what happened with the horses if they didnt then none of this would have happened by having her horses taken away
and its stands to reasons ac and all concerned have had enough of her horses getting out
as she wasnt there with horses being left with no food or water this was the icing on top of the cake
as a last straw or last chance whatever
and i have to agree with those that have made a comment about losing faith with a certian rescue centre
if one rescue horses then they should know the rules of what is deemed unjust to a horses or should i said equine welfare
you have set guidelines to adherd to and if those guidelines are not met
then one is going to be cuaght out
and to add it wont look good sided with some one with minual care asthen it will question your own type of care to those that your supportting and thats why people will lose faith
ppp has brought this on herself and no excuses are warranted
[QUOTE=Mao;5163850]
Honest to God - I can’t stand this anymore. [/QUOTE] Getting that way myself 
In my opinion, snkstacres is completely on-track with this situation.
How do you know that? Lori made allegations of due process not being followed and the facts as reported not being as they actually were on the ground. I’m not aware that Lori knows any more or less than all of us here. So far no one has actually surfaced to say “Been there, met her, involved in that”
However we feel about Jaime’s facilities, this was not an abandonment or gross neglect case, by any stretch
My opinion based on what I know and don’t know is that it was believed to be abandonment because they had been told the owner had gone away (we know that) and couldn’t find anywhere there or in charge and despite giving a time period to make contact. If that’s not suspected abandonment then I don’t know what is!
There may have been a person appointed to look after the horses. We don’t know that. What we do know though is that IF there was that seemingly they never phoned AC to let them know and we’re also told that they never even phoned PP until AFTER the horses were gone. So at best there was someone supposed to call but clearly not often enough.
Whether we like it or not the horse owner is responsible for animals in her ownership. If she designates a person to take care in her absence then she remains responsible. Obviously if there’s a clear arrangement that the “sitter” has negligently and deliberately breached then that will be taken into consideration by the authorities either prior to progression to a charge or during the course of any legal case.
To suggest that the facts as known means the horses shouldn’t have been taken and PP should get them back and it’s all just wrong is supposition and assumption with no basis on fact.
My name in real life is Margaret Odgers. I own Crazy Horse Farm in Paris, Kentucky. I’m the author of Dressage Rider’s Survival Guide, and was an exhibitor at WEG. I met Jaime at WEG, and have spoken to several people involved in her ordeal.
I don’t claim to know all the info, but clearly more than most here on COTH. Fwiw, my best assessment of the situation is in agreement with snkstacres.
You have my respect for posting your real details and not hiding behind anonymity like so many of the yapping Chihuahuas on this thread.
You may well be one of the only ones to have more first hand knowledge and information.
Which is - based on video we’ve all seen - Jaime needs to get the hell out the breeding business and clean up her act.
Agreed. Unequivocally.
But the horses we saw in video were NOT in any dire condition. Considering the state of the horse economy - this says Jaime was not that far gone, but balanced on an edge many people are facing these days.
I don’t think anyone has said that they were in dire condition. I think all agree that AC acted quickly and before that was the case.
The difference is some of us think that’s not a bad thing and some don’t like or can’t see that. Or even think it might have been necessary.
Given the precipice many horses live upon - we’d only wish they were with someone like Jaime - today, not tomorrow. I live in Kentucky and can recite chapter and verse of horses that live in much more horrible circumstances than Jaime’s.
I won’t get into the “living in bad conditions is better than living in appalling conditions” in these sort of circumstances.
Heck I’ve seen worse. I’ve seen a lot worse. I’ve posted previously about my personal involvement with the ILPH (now World Horse Welfare) and with photos of horses that are starved and dying.
I’ve supported Lori openly on the forum and privately because I know what a gut wrenching and sickening thing that is to do.
But I can’t agree that those who are on the edge and who have horses in inappropriate poor conditions should get a by because there’s worse things happen.
Meanwhile, this gal’s life is destroyed. Make no mistake. Shame on all of us - because there by the Grace of God we all go.
You’re wrong there! NO WAY ON THIS PLANET would I be strapped for cash, with a conviction for cruelty/mismanagement, no fencing, a shed load of horses but no shed, shopping for saddles and taking unpaid time off to fly to Kentucky!
I know you’ve told us you’ve met her. You’ve not said if you knew her before or how long for or if you’ve been to her place and seen her horses for yourself. Or if, just like me, you’re basing your opinion on what you’ve read on the forum previously - so her internet persona - and a single meeting at WEG.
Likewise Lori hasn’t told us how she knows what she believes.
However what I know from PP’s own words is that years ago she was “on the edge”. This wasn’t some catastrophic event that caused a change in circumstances. This isn’t something that just happened because of the latest recession.
PP told us herself of her circumstances and posted photos of it and has been so doing for years: The fencing problems, the foaling problems, the injury and illness problems, the lack of money and other resources problems. We’ve read about them for years. May well be that some chose to gloss over that and get excited about the shopping or blinded by the persona and the tales of fabulous riding and breeding.
But fact is that PP told us about what I take to be inadequate facilities - unable to keep horses in because of poor fencing, no shelter, difficult environment and not the funds to put it right. All her stuff. Not things assumed.
She also at the same time as posting that was posting about getting free horses, having a stallion, not sure if there’d been “accidental matings” with escapees, still not having fencing, deciding to continue putting foals on the ground, mares escaping to get to the stallion, to annoy the neighbours.
For years!
She never mentioned the conviction by AC. I googled and found that for myself.
It may well be that Jean Marie Ahern is struggling alone with personal difficulties and has just made some really bad judgement calls and decisions. It may be that she didn’t take her conviction in January as a bloody big wake up call. But that doesn’t mean she’s not responsible and it doesn’t mean that her neighbours and AC are wrong or even out to get her.
Neither does it mean her horses should suffer detriment.
The situation needs to be put right and in my mind “right” means she needs to get the hell out the breeding and horse collecting business and clean up her act. She’d be best taking a break from the burden of horses until she gets the facilities sorted out.
1 Like
Let’s just consider one aspect of this. Forget the fencing. Forget the “shelter.” The horses were getting loose.
Take this whole big bloody mess and substitute “dogs” for “horses.”
If I had some dogs and they were always getting loose and running rampant through the neighborhood, AC would be COMPLETELY within their rights to seize and impound them. ESPECIALLY if it appeared that I had not been at home for a few days. No one would say a thing. In fact, they might be saying, “Good for you, AC. You might have saved those dogs’ lives.”
However, because in this case it is horses - well, suddenly AC is the bad guy? Because they wanted to get loose horses off the roads? Maybe because they were concerned someone might hit one and kill it or themselves or both some dark night?
And, to repeat something that has been said once or twice along in this unending thread, if PP was a complete stranger that no one here had ever heard of, this thread would have ended on page four.
I read this and picture a hen house, with everyone trotting around flapping their wings and trying to squawk the loudest. The lines have been drawn, the sides have dug in. Why don’t you all just lay down your arms and stop lobbing shots at each other? It’s a useless waste of time and energy. Those of you who want to help PP, go do it. Let those who are, for whatever reason, skeptical and wary have their doubts in peace. There is no “right” or “wrong” side here - just people shouting at each other. Someone has to be the first to shut up and walk away.
I’ll take that first step. Who else is with me?
[edit] for posting this:mad:
[edit]
[edit]
I concur, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with this. [edit]
http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff
[QUOTE=hitchinmygetalong;5164300]
I read this and picture a hen house, with everyone trotting around flapping their wings and trying to squawk the loudest. The lines have been drawn, the sides have dug in. Why don’t you all just lay down your arms and stop lobbing shots at each other? It’s a useless waste of time and energy. Those of you who want to help PP, go do it. Let those who are, for whatever reason, skeptical and wary have their doubts in peace. There is no “right” or “wrong” side here - just people shouting at each other. Someone has to be the first to shut up and walk away.
I’ll take that first step. Who else is with me?[/QUOTE]
I don’t exactly see it that way because this thread can be a learning experience for someone, somewhere. Whether you’re the one in trouble and afraid to come out and ask for help before it gets this far, or you see someone heading down that road, this in an eye opener to do something sooner rather than later.
Like you said, if PP wasn’t a known entity, the discussion would have ended long ago and the issue would have faded into oblivion. No one could have (would have?) helped the defendant (ultimately the horses) in a real and productive way and the more pessimistic people wouldn’t have been reminded to speak up when things don’t seem quite right. Again, sooner rather than later.
Sweeping things under the rug is only effective for making the current situation go away. It does nothing for the next and the many after that if there isn’t a chance for all opinions to be heard, dissected and learned from.
Remember when those polo ponies were sickened by a mistake in the compounding of Biodyl?
I wasn’t familiar with the product so I googled it. I was amazed to see cockfighting websites, and information on vet care, training, housing.
I am still confident in my belief that pitting animals against each other in an enclosed area is not fair chase and is unsporting. But admit I was very surprised by the amount of info on vet care, services, housing, training, etc.
Nah, what this thread teaches us is
“Don’t die unless somebody is home”
National lampoon’s Vacation
^On WHAT PLANET do you think this does not matter? Being delinquent on taxes is A) a matter of public record and B) Absolutely relevant to PPs ability to maintain her horses safely and legally if she gets them back.
And there are a bunch of people on this thread who are actively trying to help her get them back. Don’t you think they should know about at least the public information which directly affects her financial ability to do so through a Maine winter when there is significant financial investment to get her place up to minimum legal standards?
I would certainly hate for a bunch of people to fix up her property for her only to find out that she is in real danger of losing it. What on Earth would that help? Not her, not her horses. Maybe that is a little minor detail that ought to be ironed out up front.
This is not judgmental people. This is reality. A reality that directly affects her horses. And being kind or nice or oblivious will. not. help. her.
SCFarm
Her prior conviction for cruelty is also public, yet nobody has found out what it exactly was that was so cruel that it warranted a fine.
I think even you, on this planet, will have to agree that having bad fences is a far cry from starving (on purpose) or beating an animal…even having no shelter for fat and healthy horses isn’t that bad.
Taxes, smaxes…it still was not necessary to post this here, on this planet.
Wow, I’m amazed you all are still beating this dead horse. :eek:
1500 posts?
Geeeze.
Well I was about to declare solidarity with hitchinmygetalong until I saw the postings after hers by PP supporters “lot”
Oh the irony.
[QUOTE=macmtn;5164346]
[edit]posting this:mad:
[edit][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Quinn;5164354]I concur, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with this. [edit]
http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff[/QUOTE]
Yep why ruin this thread and all that “Poor PP” posts and stop piling it on and she was just misunderstood and innocent and stop assuming with… facts!
You don’t have to be a genius to find the contextual stuff.
In the context of failing to provide properly for the animals you keep and whether you’re an animal hoarder or not it sure is contextual and relevant whether you have the means and wherewithall to keep them or whether you’re daft enough to be dancing when the titanic sinks!
Or go shopping and then on a luxury unpaid holiday trip to Kentucky with debts mounting and horses behind a saggy wire because you can’t afford fencing.
But hey don’t let’s spoil all that piling on for PP with facts.
I know, the other dead horses are all out on the range…:no:
Like the fact that when we don’t pay our mortgage or taxes the bank or gov’t takes our home.
I don’t want to pile on someone, and I’m certainly not doing it for fun. That would be cruel and downright evil.
But nothing will change the fact that we could all chip in to build a shelter or fix PP’s fences… and she’s probably going to lose her home very soon. The gov’t wants that tax money and they’ll take everything she has in order to get that money.
I fervently hope that PP has retained good counsel, and that the atty is providing guidance on the financial issues as well. And if she needs any other type of help, I hope she gets that too.
“Cruelty” in this case is what the law says it is. And the law is what will determine what happens to her horses. It doesn’t matter what you think. It doesn’t matter what I think either. This isn’t a moral judgment. It is a legal one.
The best way to keep your horses safe is to comply with the law. If you don’t, you can’t be surprised if the Law comes and takes them away. Esp. after they have told you, fined you and continue to watch you.
I think even you, on this planet, will have to agree that having bad fences is a far cry from starving (on purpose) or beating an animal…even having no shelter for fat and healthy horses isn’t that bad.
Who said starving?
And what on earth difference would it make to a horse if it were being staved on purpose or by accident? Wanting to feed one’s horses or keep them inside their fence or keep them dry and warm in horrid weather has not thing to with intent and everything to do with actually doing so.
Taxes, smaxes…it still was not necessary to post this here, on this planet.
Taxes, smaxes? Well, at least I know you don’t live on this planet.
SCFarm
[QUOTE]Originally Posted by Mao
Honest to God - I can’t stand this anymore.
In my opinion, snkstacres is completely on-track with this situation. However we feel about Jaime’s facilities, this was not an abandonment or gross neglect case, by any stretch.
My name in real life is Margaret Odgers. I own Crazy Horse Farm in Paris, Kentucky. I’m the author of Dressage Rider’s Survival Guide, and was an exhibitor at WEG. I met Jaime at WEG, and have spoken to several people involved in her ordeal.
I don’t claim to know all the info, but clearly more than most here on COTH. Fwiw, my best assessment of the situation is in agreement with snkstacres.
Which is - based on video we’ve all seen - Jaime needs to get the hell out the breeding business and clean up her act. But the horses we saw in video were NOT in any dire condition. Considering the state of the horse economy - this says Jaime was not that far gone, but balanced on an edge many people are facing these days.
Given the precipice many horses live upon - we’d only wish they were with someone like Jaime - today, not tomorrow. I live in Kentucky and can recite chapter and verse of horses that live in much more horrible circumstances than Jaime’s.
Meanwhile, this gal’s life is destroyed. Make no mistake. Shame on all of us - because there by the Grace of God we all go.
clap clap clap
[QUOTE=Alagirl;5164396]
I think even you, on this planet, will have to agree that having bad fences is a far cry from starving (on purpose) or beating an animal…even having no shelter for fat and healthy horses isn’t that bad.
Taxes, smaxes…it still was not necessary to post this here, on this planet.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t have called those horses fat and healthy, or happy. Not starved in general, yes, but do you really think they enjoyed lying down in an ankle deep muddy round pen? If it’s true there was no hay or water in there, I’m sure that must have really bummed them out, too. At least they had the option of going in search of greener pastures before they went on lock down by whoever put them there. It still hasn’t been established whether it was PP herself, the sitter or the neighbors and I’d like to hear.
Taxes smaxes could have probably been paid with the money used for going to and getting clothes for the WEG. It’s just another piece of the puzzle.
