This is a somewhat clumsy title for what feel likes a bit of an oblique question - bear with me!
I’m starting to edge into saddle research again and I keep coming across opinions that seem to indicate certain types of saddles (can be brand specific, but can also be as generic as “french saddles fit x type of back shape best/don’t work well for y shape”) work best (or don’t work at all) for certain shapes of horses.
What’s everyone’s experience with this? Are there brands that work best for a, let’s say, conventional thoroughbred back (high wither, maybe more curved spine) vs the conventional warmblood back (less extreme wither, flatter back)?
Consider this useful research for me - I’m starting to look into what saddle brands to keep an eye on for when I’m prepared to buy one for my young horse, so even outside of the brand/shape discussion, I’d love to hear if people have experience with saddles that work well for a moderately short (wide!!!) back without much curve to it.
Eh. I think that with everything horse related it Entirely Depends.
In another thread a poster was talking about a saddle being made for OTTBs. (Harry Dabbs Avant[sp?])
I really, really don’t buy the kool-aid about saddles fitting specific breeds. There is way too much variation within big breed books, especially TBs. The typical TB isn’t, to me, “shark withered and big shouldered” anymore than the typical WB is once the horse is completely done growing… but the average person is more familiar with an actively racing TB’s physique than they are with that same horse, let down and properly muscled – and a lot changes, including the type of saddle they need.
I buy that a saddle would fit a specific back-type – but that back-type is not in any way shape or form exclusive to specific breeds. I have owned and seen several sausage barreled, flat backed TBs. I have owned and seen plenty of high withered, hollowed shoulder WBs.
The saddle in question claimed to fit OTTBs because OTTBs are typically “high withered with a hollow behind their shoulders”. This is not unique to TBs and is, in general, common in young horses both WB and TB alike. So the claim is bold and in my opinion without merit because there is way too much variation within the TB breed for a single tree shape to possibly fit “90% of them”.
I do think specific saddles fit specific back types better and specific trees might accommodate specific shapes better.
For instance I’ve had a hard time fitting a Kieffer Wein to a longer-backed big shouldered horse. But I’ve had that saddle fit short-backed horses very well. I can’t get my Niederseuss to fit any of the TBs and it definitely will not fit my Hanoverian but oddly, fits the QH very well. Black Country, County and Stubben all seem to fit horses with big shoulders and flat backs very well – panels pending. The (Stubben) Zaria I have noticed fits flat-backed horses very well while I’ve seen that the Black Country Vinci seems amenable to horses that have curvy + short backs.
Specific types of panels certainly help too; upswept panels tend to help the horses with curvier backs. I’ve found many horses are amenable to upswept panels.
Point well made above - the diversity of shape in the “thoroughbred” or “warmblood” category is broad so people trying to pidgeonhole them into one is restrictive and unhelpful.
Perhaps the more accurate phrasing is “saddle brands for different shapes” which I do find plausible, but I’m finding some generalised commentary in my preliminary searches that relegate shapes to breed (without much regard for how inaccurate that ends up being).
Sorry for lack of clarity - I knew you were referring to “saddles for specific shapes”. My comment was kind of a spinoff to another thread that was “saddles for specific breeds”.
Regarding the shape of the horse you described… it’s so variable… so much more goes into it than simply the shape of the tree… some horses are really sensitive to the formation of the bars, some really object to placement of stirrup bars, others really like gusseted channels… two horses can share the same physical traits and require completely different saddles.
The horse you say you’re thinking of fitting: I had a gelding that was very compact with huge shoulders but not a lot of “loading surface”. He went really well in the Kieffer Wein (mentioned above) and then later, a Prestige Event – but I think his big thing was he needed a saddle that was generous through the shoulders, and needed a tree that had a less “pointy” configuration for the tree points. I actually think he would have been very happy in the Stubben Zaria but he died well before that saddle ever hit the market.
If your horse is truly wide and short-backed, that will restrict your saddle search. I’d figure out what length of panels you can use on him to determine if you need one of the saddles specifically made for short-backed horses, and narrow it down from there. If he needs a hoop tree as well, that will narrow it down even further.
I’m so glad somebody posted this topic! I was just researching this last night, with few answers to my questions. I think my big issue personally, is I cannot tell by looking at a horse if they have a curvy back or a flat back once it becomes less than in-your-face obvious. I thought my 3 year old had a curvy back, but the saddle fitter said to me the portion where the saddle would sit is actually quite flat, and honestly, I really couldn’t see what he meant.
I think it would be a really wonderful learning experience if users could post pictures of their horse’s backs, with an explanation of the type of back they have, and what type of tree would fit well with said back.
I’ve found the most useful thing to be my saddle fitter making very careful templates of my horse’s back that I can use in saddle shopping.
My horse is modereately curvy big shouldered and well sprung ribs. A Pessoa and a Stubben Roxanne rocked on her (too curvy). County and Passier fit her better. I took my tracings to a reseller of modern French foam saddles who said none of them would be likely to fit her.
But even just saying curvy back, that can mean a lot of different things, depending on where the curve is. Etc.
I’ve recently had my Passier on several other horses that look different to me, but the saddle actually fits. So it can be hard to look past the variations in overall conformation to just focus on the back.
Many saddle companies offer different models that accommodate a variety of horse backs. Those, paired with suitable panel and other fitting options, will fit a large variety of backs. Breeds generally have a certain build and type but they do vary laterally and longitudinally in width, angle, roundness, slope, dips, etc. For example, most TBs I fit will need a deeper front panel and front gussets but there are some that are hoop trees, some that are very uphill and need deeper rear gussets, etc.
Most Baroque types usually do well in a hoop tree but I just fit one that was built like a TB. That is why it’s hard to be specific in that way and then you get the horse where everything makes sense but the horse likes the opposite!
For what it is worth, a few companies will put in their description “fits XXX horse/back”, Amerigo for one does this. I can’t say how that translates in the real world of horses but it might help to narrow the selection to a few to try. Generally, and I mean very generally, some of the German brand saddles have a more curved tree, i.e. banana shape, to fit curved backs. Its been my experience that UK made saddles are a bit more straight thru the tree, although that could just be a result of saddle brands I’ve tried and totally not true to all UK saddles. The panel shape from side to side, some horses that are wide and flat across the back will need this, other’s may need panels that are more angled. Fitting the bars and gullet on the horse’s shoulders that’s challenging and finding a saddle that incorporates ALL things to fit your horse, even more a challenge.
If shopping online, it helps to see pictures of all views saddles to narrow your choice. Reading threads like this can also give you a general idea of what has worked for others so you might avoid a lot of shipping saddles on trial; however, in the end that may still happen.
You may need to think out of the box, don’t be afraid to try a brand that isn’t one of the popular ones, it’s about fitting your horse and not about what other’s are riding.
I spent months last year looking for a new saddle for my horse with a short, wide, flat back. I took home lots of consignment saddles that turned out to be just too curvy front to back for her, or too narrow in front. We ended up with a Bates Innova, with the wide gullet plate (or possibly the size just below wide). It is not a saddle I would have chosen, but it’s the only one we found that fits her well. She uses a Jeffries Elite saddle for jumping.
Beowolf, you have strong opinions considering you have aparently never seen an Avant saddle.
Of course it doesn’t fit every OTTB (that was never claimed), and of course horses change over time, and of course the saddle also does well on young warmbloods and other breeds that have a shape reminiscent of an OTTB. None of that negates the years of research that went into developing the saddle for the OTTB or that it does it’s job remarkably well.
So you acknowledge that horses just off the track have a typical look? The Avant is designed for those just off the track, and continues to fit many of them for a long time.
What is that saying about the exception that proves the rule? I think by pointing out the exceptions you have confirmed the rule that in general, OTTBs have a fairly specific shape. Again, the Avant does very well on young warmbloods and other breeds that have a shape reminiscent of an OTTB.
In my opinion, it is “bold and without merit” to criticize a saddle you have no experience with. You are also not taking into account the range of panels that can be put on the Avant tree. Also, the fact that other horses can have shapes similar to a thoroughbred in no way effects the saddle’s ability to fit thoroughbreds. Your logic is faulty.
And you have acknowledged that OTTBs tend to have a fairly specific shape, so why do you struggle to accept that a specific tree can fit a large percentage of OTTBs?
I wonder, do you take issue with the Arabian Saddle Company, too? They make saddles for short-backed, wide horses. Are all Arabians short-backed and wide? Are Arabians the only horses that are short-backed and wide? Of course not, but if you are looking for a saddle for an Arabian, or a horse built like an Arabian, it is a great place to start!
Are you also going to jump on Jaybird for referring to “Most TBs…” and “Most Baroque types…”?
Hmm, upswept panels happen to be a feature of most Harry Dabbs saddles, and lots of OTTBs have curvier bcks… Why are we fighting the inevitable conclusion?
