Hello COTH! Longtime lurker, and a little anxious about posting! My question is regarding saddle fit and pain, or lack thereof. Is it possible that a saddle can be uncomfortable to the horse and them not show typical “poor saddle fit symptoms” (such as flinching muscles when running fingers down back, pinning ears when girthing, etc)? Or that the only issues being seen are under saddle? I feel like this is a really silly question, but appreciate all answers! Thanks!
it is not a silly question.
yes, it is VERY possible.
i have told the story countless times, but i had a TB who had a saddle that was reflocked to him MANY times by several accomplished, widely respected saddle fitters. they all agreed it fit him spectacularly. it fit on paper and for a while his escalating misbehavior astounded us – until at length he became nearly unrideable. for whatever reason, he did not care for the saddle. unfortunately, i wish i had recognized it sooner instead of chalking it up to young horse misbehavior. we involved a top lameness vet who ddx’d that he had trauma in his back from the saddle, horse had SI injection/mesotherapy and a different saddle and was a changed animal.
he never once was girthy.
he never pinned his ears at me when i put the saddle on.
he never once flinched, twitched, or tossed when the saddle was put on.
he never acted pissy about grooming or belly rubs.
he never demonstrated soreness on palpitation…
what he did demonstrate were BUCKS. big orbit-launching bucks… then he started bolting and would not/could not canter depart without scooting and bucking. for a long time we overlooked the saddle because we thought it had fit (professionals said it did) and we looked in the wrong places: in the beginning we thought it was behavioral, then we started thinking it was pain somewhere… we knew it was something but never thought to look at the saddle that was reflocked and fitted to him many, many times until the lameness vet looked at his back.
Hollowing back and reluctance to pick up belly. Slowing, stopping, not wanting to go forward, choppy gates or bolting off even just to name a few. What both of my guys have done with not too great fitting saddles.
Thank you beowolf and Tanny98! Your problems sound quite similar to mine! Saddle fitter is scheduled for next week. I am hoping this is the cause to why!
Sometimes what makes sense and should fit, doesn’t work for the horse and what a fitter might think is not the right saddle for a horse works. It’s not common but does happen. I like to listen to the horse but sometimes it can be a combination of physical or physiological issues and is exacerbated by saddle fit. Ulcers, SI issues, subtle hind end lameness, asymmetry, ovary issues are just some things that contribute.
Sometimes a horse just being “jiggy” in the crossties can be a sign of an ill fitting saddle.
[QUOTE=jaybird660;8812635]
Sometimes what makes sense and should fit, doesn’t work for the horse and what a fitter might think is not the right saddle for a horse works. It’s not common but does happen. I like to listen to the horse but sometimes it can be a combination of physical or physiological issues and is exacerbated by saddle fit. Ulcers, SI issues, subtle hind end lameness, asymmetry, ovary issues are just some things that contribute.[/QUOTE]
Do you think a saddle can be the cause of ulcers/ hindend lamenes, etc? We’ve dealt with ulcers fairly recently and thankfully are past that. The lameness feeling under saddle is recent. Vet and farrier are definitely involved and we have made some adjustments that have helped some areas but this is still an issue. Hes a very sensitive horse. Things that bother him other horses don’t mind. I’ve had the saddle about a year and when we first got it and had it fitted, it made a huge difference. It’s since been adjusted a few times (growing changing young horse) and after the last one, things started to go downhill. It’s not 100% consistent and there were other factors at play that I believe caused the ulcers, but I keep going back to the last fitting as the starting point for all the symptoms.
CCFarm, it’s interesting that you say that. I would describe this horse as being very sensitive and somewhat anxious. He’s never been spooky or naughty until recently. The main thing I have observed in the crossties is that he is constantly moving, trying to turn his head around, being very mouthy (like always looking for a treat, and I’m not big on hand feeding this horse). He is young, and unfortunately I have not been able to ride as much as I need to, and chalked it up to excess energy. But what you said makes sense to me.
Thank you all for the replies! I’m anxiously anticipating the fitting, hoping that this can resolve the problems!
the reverse is possible: ulcers CAN and DO cause backsoreness and body pain.
My short backed, big shouldered TB benefited a lot from a great saddle fitter (who doesn’t sell saddles). Diagnosed with kissing spine last year, he got both of his saddles replaced and he is a new man. But my saddles were bridging.
I spent a ton of money with a very reputable saddle fitter and guy still just wasn’t quite right.
Moved to another barn that uses a different (not as well known) saddle fitter and voila - my horse is actually starting to use his back and develop a topline!
So, even though everything looked super with the previous fitter - my horse obviously didn’t like the fit.
My understanding from talking to various vets, is that the direct saddle pain is under the saddle. However it can cause indirect issues by how the horse travels. So if you horse is not comfortable and not engaging their back and hind end it can put a lot of stress on the hind end causing other issue over time.
I have also known some horses that minor flocking changes can really change how they move and make them very uncomfortable and or really happy. I believe most of the time saddle fitting is apart of the whole pictures and not just one part of the equation.
I agree with much of what has been said. Ulcers can cause so many issues and with some horses can start again readily.
On the other hand, some horses, as stated above are like the, “princess and the pea” where they notice the flocking changes and that can have a good or detrimental effect. I once worked on a horse that had their saddle flocked asymmetrically which I generally don’t believe in as I would rather shim and allow for symmetrical development. I made it even and suggested a shim and when she rode in front of me to make sure things were good, the wasn’t happy, wanting to sit down and back up. The adjustment was so minor but I worked on it more and solved the issue. As I said before, sometimes what should work doesn’t and then the detective work begins. If they could only talk.
Did the flocking make the channel narrower? Is it pinching the spine somewhere? Is the flocking even and malleable? Are there any lumps that can act like “noogies” into the muscles? Is it sitting differently and putting pressure somewhere else? Is it shifting or pivoting? Does the back move side to side or up and down? Is there clearance all the way through with ample gullet channel space all the way on the sides?
[QUOTE=jaybird660;8814328]
I agree with much of what has been said. Ulcers can cause so many issues and with some horses can start again readily.
On the other hand, some horses, as stated above are like the, “princess and the pea” where they notice the flocking changes and that can have a good or detrimental effect. I once worked on a horse that had their saddle flocked asymmetrically which I generally don’t believe in as I would rather shim and allow for symmetrical development. I made it even and suggested a shim and when she rode in front of me to make sure things were good, the wasn’t happy, wanting to sit down and back up. The adjustment was so minor but I worked on it more and solved the issue. As I said before, sometimes what should work doesn’t and then the detective work begins. If they could only talk.
Did the flocking make the channel narrower? Is it pinching the spine somewhere? Is the flocking even and malleable? Are there any lumps that can act like “noogies” into the muscles? Is it sitting differently and putting pressure somewhere else? Is it shifting or pivoting? Does the back move side to side or up and down? Is there clearance all the way through with ample gullet channel space all the way on the sides?[/QUOTE]
The ulcers were a big issue, for sure. We have scoped before and after and the vet is confident they aren’t an issue, though we have made significant changes to how he is managed. It was not a fun couple of weeks, for sure!
Re: Saddle Fit- I wish I were more knowledgeable and could answer your questions better 
When I go out tonight I can try to take some notes and relay them to you!
Great advice given by jaybird. :yes:
^^^ This. Lots of horses avoid direct pain by altering their way of moving. They make their riders think the saddle is fine and that they just have a training problem (horse won’t engage) when really the training is fine, they just have a saddle fit problem!
If my horse doesn’t like the saddle, he won’t move under saddle. At all. Except to swish his tail and pin his ears and maybe paw or lift a hind leg and tell you to get off! When he had ulcers, the warnings got a little more violent.
He also doesn’t like shims. He would rather I ride in an unbalanced demo saddle that he is mostly ok with rather than shim it to see how it would ride with the proper flocking. Complete princess and the pea.
