Saddle Fit - Banging Head on Wall -Treeless Question

[Kellye]

I bought a new Appy mare about 6 months ago for trail riding and possibly some CTR’s. Of course, I had to buy a horse who is hard to fit. She’s got high withers, a prominent backbone and is narrow; built like a tent instead of a table-top. I’ve now tried a Wintec, a couple of Big Horn westerns and I recently bought an Aussie, which is the MOST comfortable saddle I’ve ever ridden in, but ALL of these saddles pinch her behind the withers, or sit downhill, or both. She’s not downhill, but with the high withers/backbone on the front half of her back, then the back half (where I sit) is wider, she’s a nightmare to fit. If I go with a narrower tree, it’s pinchy in front; they are TOO narrow. If I go with a wider tree, it sits down on her withers. I’ve even brought home a few used saddles on trial and NOTHING works on this mare! BANGING head against wall!!!

My retired Arab went for 5 seasons doing CTR’s in a Bob Marshall. My biggest challenge in fitting him was his very high withers. With this mare’s high withers coupled with a prominent spine, I’m not sure a BM would work. She’s about 15.2 and I’m a heavyweight rider, but very balanced with pretty decent equitation skills.

Treeless riders, please tell me of the treeless saddles that have english-type panels underneath for more spine clearance. I’ve looked at the Trekker which seems VERY adjustable. I tried a Freeform and didn’t like it at all (on another horse). Any others worth looking at?

What are my treeless options? Or do I just have to keep searching for something else? BM’s are my most favorite of all the treeless, but I think her spine would be like sitting on a pole in a BM. Suggestions will be appreciated before I bang my head in!!

[Auventera_Two]

My Arab is also a nightmare to fit. After 2 years and about 15 different saddles I gave up and went treeless. I thought our Abetta was working well but that was short lived. Her and I both are very happy with the fit for her back. I’m not familiar with saddles with panels because I have a Bandos which doesn’t have panels. I can’t offer much help but just wanted to say - I feel your pain.

P.S. - Is her spine that prominent because she’s underweight?

[ToiRider]

Could you post some pictures of your mare?

Tucker saddles are treed saddles, but they have a high pommels, so they provide a lot more wither clearance than a normal treed saddle. It sounds like you might need a high pommel saddle combined with shims in your saddle pad to fill the pocket behind the withers. Check out Skito saddle pads. They have a shimming system that can be inserted for this kind of issue. Tom at Skito can help you. He has helped me with several issues with my horse and I have, at least temporarily, achieved perfect saddle fit. I’m on my third saddle and its a Tucker Endurance. I use a custom made Skito pad.

[Kellye]

Her spine is not prominent because she’s underweight. In fact, with all the rain in Florida our grass is growing like mad and she’s FAT. But she’s had a few babies in the past; maybe that’s the cause of her spine being prominent.

I have a Skito pad, and 2 different shim systems. Been there done that. Extra shims just make the saddles too tight.

I have one more combination of saddle/shim that I haven’t tried yet with a Big Horn that I have. Maybe it will be the magical combination, but I still want to know more about my treeless options. I MISS riding treeless!

Who makes the Bandos? If it’s like a Barefoot, I hate those the most of all; can’t tolerate the velcro spine; feels like a stiff maxi-pad and I don’t like the way the stirrups are attached. I know…I’m picky. But for that kind of money, I’m allowed to be.

[marta]

i considered a treeless few years ago for a mare

with prominent withers but decided against it because it seemed that they required a lot of work to fit a high withered horse into them.

[chicamuxen1]

Your mare should be fine in a Sport Saddle as long as it has the peaked front and you use a pad designed for treeless saddles with thicker inserts. I like the Skito pads as you can get a variety of inserts and Tom has a couple of differnet density foams.

My neighbor has a fantastic Russian bloodline Arabian who has a prominent spine and high withers. The horse has been competing for years in a BMSS carrying a heavyweight rider. Never had back issues, ever. The way your horse is built is actually really good for endurance, it’s better for dispursing heat and much more comfortable for using a treeless saddle on than the flat backed horse. I’ve used treeless for years and had a very flatbacked horse. Trust me, the flat backed horse isn’t the ideal in my opinion. I think the BMSS is one of the best treeless saddles for distance riding.

Bonnie

[CanterQueen]

I love my Bob Marshall saddles and I ride my flat backed QH and my moderatly withered TWH in them (regular BM’s, not peaked). If your horse has very high withers I would definately ONLY try the peaked BM saddle. These are harder to find on sites like eBay and TackTrader. Since it would be a custom order, I would try to find a loaner first and see if it fits.

Good luck!!!

[Diamond_Jake]

If you plan on keeping the horse for a while, why not spend the money and have someone qualified help you do a fit evaluation on her? Sometimes easier and quicker than buying and trialing tons of saddles with no luck. Especially if you want to get out riding!

:winkgrin:

[chicamuxen1]

I would suggest demoing a saddle. Most of the vendors that sell endurance tack/saddles have demo saddles available at a low fee and you can ride for 7-10 days to really try the fit.

Bonnie

[Halcyon_Days]

saddles

I love Bob Marshall’s, and have used them for years in endurance riders. They’ve worked on every horse so far EXCEPT my current endurance horse, a tall Tennessee Walker gelding with prominent withers, prominent spine and big shoulders. He keeps growing in white hairs under my seat bones. Yes, have used the Skito (laminated and shims) to build it up, just doesn’t work for the pair of us. I could cry, because it’s so comfortable–it’s now my spare saddle for friends/clients to ride in. I use a Tucker endurance and my horse is very happy. I’m not so much, it’s heavier than I like and my seat bones hurt after a few hours (50-75 mile rides) but his back looks great and white hairs grown back in. I SHOULD say though, that his back was NEVER sore with the treeless (and yes, I’m a heavyweight rider) he got great scores on his back, travelled well, etc, just those blasted white hairs. Pressure? Heat? Friction? I don’t know…

[saratoga]

If you are having that hard of a time, it might be best to invest in a custom treed saddle (I love my DeSoto).

Have you tried a really think pad? The equipedic is what I like. Other than that, I really think the treeless saddle work better with rounder horses. I have a Tb. who is quite narrow and I do use my Barefoot on him occassionally but it does not feel quite right or very secure or balanced, whereas when I use it on my round Arabs, its a whole different feel.

[Altamont_Sport_Horse]

I’m not sure I would put the money into a custom saddle. If she is low in muscle along the topline she will change as you condition her. She will probably put more muscle on in the withers/shoulder which will effect the fit.

Have you considered a saddle designed for Tennessee Walkers? They tend to be narrow and high withered so the pommel is usually higher. You might be able to get a decent used one until she is muscled up and then get a custom one designed…or maybe find that something else “off the rack” that will work.

I’ve never used a treeless saddle but I would think that the lack of structure would allow the pommel to come down on her withers. Could be wrong though.

[Kellye]

All good suggestions and plenty to think about!!

Diamond Jake, just had to laugh at your last sentence…“if you want to get out and ride”. Well, I live near Orlando, Florida and every day this week, the heat index is over 100 degrees with humidity over the top. Not exactly riding weather, and this is only the beginning. We still have 2 more months of this heat, so I’m not in a huge hurry to get out riding. However, I am taking some dressage lessons in hopes of building some topline muscle on this mare before we actually start REALLY riding this Fall and Winter. My instructor is letting me try different saddles that she has, so that’s a temporary fix for the short rides we do during our lessons. When I practice during the week, my rides are 30 minutes at the most, then it gets too hot.

I currently have 2 saddles for sale, so hopefully once they are sold, I’ll have some money to play with in finding her a properly fitting saddle, and by then, she’ll have some more muscle. Her back already looks better than it did when I bought her, so there is some light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe this summer, I can demo some saddles. The only “custom” saddle fitters I know of work with English type saddles, not endurance style. But I know someone who I can ask about that…she knows everybody!

Oh, and who mentioned a gaited saddle? I had a Tennessean that I LOVED many years ago, and come to think of it, that brand just may fit her. I’ll keep an eye out for a used endurance model. And here’s the catch…this mare also has an intermediate gait…a flat walk, so on top of everything else, she’s gaited too!

[Auventera_Two]

All reeless saddles that I know of, come with a hard pommel, and on most saddles you can remove it or change it out for something soft. Even with the lack of structure, the pommel can’t squish down on their withers if you have your original fiberglass form in it. I don’t think you can switch them with the Bob Marshalls though like you can on other models.

I am SO GLAD I didn’t go with a custom made saddle last year. After 1 year of steady, consistent work, my horse’s topline has changed 100%. It looks nothing like it did a year ago when I was in saddle fit hell. I’m just not convinced that doing custom fit saddles would be the way to go for me because my horse seems to change a lot. Each horse is different though! Custom might be the way to go for you Kellye, though I’d tend to agree with the person who said your horse’s topline might change with steady work.

[saratoga]

I was wary of a custom saddle not fitting my horse as he changed, but that hasnt been the case for me. When I bought it about 4 years ago, he was obviously younger and he was quite heavy because I hadnt ridden him much for the last few months because of saddle fit problems…but I ordered it anyway. It fit from Day One and still does- I have about 800 endurance miles in it now and a bunch of LD too. Its the only saddle I use for him. Not to say that customs will work for all horses, I dont think anything works for every horse, but its one thing to think of.

[Kellye]

<<<I am SO GLAD I didn’t go with a custom made saddle last year. After 1 year of steady, consistent work, my horse’s topline has changed 100%. It looks nothing like it did a year ago when I was in saddle fit hell. I’m just not convinced that doing custom fit saddles would be the way to go for me because my horse seems to change a lot. Each horse is different though! Custom might be the way to go for you Kellye, though I’d tend to agree with the person who said your horse’s topline might change with steady work.>>>

Yeah, this is what has happened. I bought this mare a beautiful new Aussie saddle about 2 months ago and it fit her perfectly (and me too!). But with dressage lessons and more riding, even though they are short rides, plus the fact that’s she’s “getting her figure back” after having a baby last year, her back has completely changed and her new saddle is too tight now! I anticipate that her back will continue to change, so I’m not really in favor of a custom saddle for her at this point.

The search continues…

[katarine]

Kellye, National Bridle has a fabulous trial progam. USE the saddle, don’t abuse it, but use it, and if it’s not ok in 10 days send it back. Their hornless light rider sounds like a possible match for you

www.nationalbridleshop.com

[Ridge_Runner]

@Kellye;3375309

I
Treeless riders, please tell me of the treeless saddles that have english-type panels underneath for more spine clearance. I’ve looked at the Trekker which seems VERY adjustable. I tried a Freeform and didn’t like it at all (on another horse). Any others worth looking at?

Enlightened Equitation’s treeless saddles have a gullet and panels. They are very comfortable. I love my Fhoenix and will not go back to a treed saddle after riding in this. It is also very easy to use on multiple horses.

[Mersy]

I’m a headbanger too…if that helps at all (sigh).
I was wondering though, if a saddle designed for a mule would fit (do to her extreme “A” frame build)? It would be worth a looksee.

[jeano]

I’ve moaned and groaned too. Just want to put in a plug for a saddle I own and a saddle I dont own.

My buddy can ride both my narrow sharkfin withered TWH gelding and my flat and wide racking mare in her OrthoFlex Patriot. They both perform their very different intermediate gaits well in this saddle. She’s probably 200 lbs or a tich heavier.

I am no lightweight either, 185-190 stripped. I can ride both the horses in my wide tree Abetta Special trail. The witherless mare with the pool-table back gets as little pad as possible, the narrow gelding gets a standard one inch thick rectangular generic felt pad.
Everybody’s comfortable, sweat patterns are great, nasty old white hairs vanishing from both horses. Rides are anywhere from 1 to 5 hours on dirt roads, trails, varied terrain. Both horses seem to benefit from a nonslip pad or liner.