Saddle fit for swales behind the wither

[BroncoMo]

I’m in the process of selling my current saddle with the intent of having my horse fitted for a better fitting saddle if/when the apocalypse dies down some and fitters/reps can go back to work. But in the mean time, I figured I’d see if anyone has had this sort of oddball fit situation.

First and foremost, I do not have good pictures that show this horse’s conformation; I’ve looked through my phone, and I just don’t have them. The horse in question is a Paint, comprised of mostly Quarter Horse and Thoroughbred. Big, big bodied, can just about pass as a warmblood when he’s his absolute fittest. He has a good prominent wither but it drops off steeply rather than tying long and deep in to his back. And he has (I hesitate to say, hollow) swales behind his scapula. This is not a fitness issue. His topline is as good and developed as it’s ever been; he’s just conformationally weird below/behind his wither. Another way to describe it would be that his wither and right behind/below is on the narrow side, while his shoulders are broader; it’s been suggested that we may need to try a slightly wider tree to accommodate his shoulders.

The problem I’m having is that my saddle slides back throughout the ride, settling in to the swale behind his wither. I have to stop several times a ride and readjust my saddle as it is putting me out of balance and starting to impinge on his wither; a breast collar does not help as the saddle slides too much and the collar causes discomfort. A “bandaid” or sorts that a fitter suggested is a basic gel no slip pad (just the gel, no fleece) placed a little behind where you would normally place a no slip/half pad, so as to fill in the swales without shimming and throwing off the balance even more. This is obviously a temporary solution and I would like to buy something that fits better, though I can’t fully customize to him because I do ride several horses of various shapes.

Has anyone had a horse built like I’m describing? Suggestions as to what to tweak on a saddle in this situation?

[Scribbler]

I think you are looking for wither gussets or “skid row panels” as County calls them, named after a horse that needed them. https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f…kid-row-panels

Also called a k panel

http://saddlefitter.blogspot.com/2010/06/from-tree-up-panel-modifications.html?m=1

[ToTheNines]

I had a horse built this way. I bought a Thinline pad, the kind without any fabric or sheepskin. Just the rubber material. I placed it on his back and traced where his shoulders buldged out. Then I cut out that part. So had a sort scalloped cutouts over his shoulders. Basically, I ended up with a pad that did not pad over his shoulders. Hope that makes sense. Used it over a regular square “baby pad”.

BTW, he was a double registered Paint/QH. Lots of TB, leggy and huntery and very pretty, but had very wide shoulders with hollows behind them.

[BroncoMo]

@Scribbler

I think you are looking for wither gussets or “skid row panels” as County calls them, named after a horse that needed them. https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f…kid-row-panels

Also called a k panel

http://saddlefitter.blogspot.com/2010/06/from-tree-up-panel-modifications.html?m=1

Good info, thank you. I had heard of Skid Row panels, but never knew what it meant.

[BroncoMo]

@ToTheNines

I had a horse built this way. I bought a Thinline pad, the kind without any fabric or sheepskin. Just the rubber material. I placed it on his back and traced where his shoulders buldged out. Then I cut out that part. So had a sort scalloped cutouts over his shoulders. Basically, I ended up with a pad that did not pad over his shoulders. Hope that makes sense. Used it over a regular square “baby pad”.

BTW, he was a double registered Paint/QH. Lots of TB, leggy and huntery and very pretty, but had very wide shoulders.

Yes! This is what was suggested by a fitter, just with a basic gel half pad. The idea was to find the perfect area to fit it and cut out scallops as you suggest. The horse is 1200 miles away from me. The fitter was out on the last day of my last trip, and the world blew up a few days later. So I have not had the chance to try this out. I still need a different saddle to better fit myself. I bought this one a year and a half ago and it was the best fit (fitted to a different horse) that I could afford at the time. I now want to step up to a better fit for myself (and horse), so selling the current saddle before it depreciates too much. Hopefully the world shakes out soon, because as of Monday, I will be saddle-less!

[ToTheNines]

I edited my post to show a picture of the modified Thinline. Every conventional pad I tried, even with shims, just ended up padding his already wide shoulders.

[Scribbler]

@ToTheNines

I edited my post to show a picture of the modified Thinline. Every conventional pad I tried, even with shims, just ended up padding his already wide shoulders.

That’s a really clever solution. I would be terrified to cut up a Thinline but I will remember the idea.

[NaturallyHappy]

ToTheNines, what a brilliant idea!!! Off to order a pad so I can cut it up. BroncMo, thanks for asking this question in such a clear, concise way.

[no.stirrups]

The Harry Dabbs Future panel is brilliantly designed for exactly this situation. With most other brands you need a fitter who understands how to combine front gussets, K panels, and other options to customize the fit. Either way, there’s no adequate substitute for wool panels.

[BroncoMo]

@ToTheNines

I edited my post to show a picture of the modified Thinline. Every conventional pad I tried, even with shims, just ended up padding his already wide shoulders.

This is exactly what was suggested. While I shutter at the idea of mutilating a several hundred dollar half pad, I’m not above it. On that last ride I had, with the fitter there, we slid a basic half pad back in to the swales to simulate what it would be like to cut up a pad to fit. It worked well, it improved the sliding but didn’t totally stop it. My trainer’s saddles do not slide on him. So I may try to replicate what she has but that will require a little bit of saving for, even on a used one.

I would be curious to know how your horse is bred?

[Scribbler]

The best solution is to tweak the panels as much as possible to get a better fit. A good saddle fitter might even be able to add k panels. Then once you’ve done that as far as possible, use a pad or shim.

[BroncoMo]

@NaturallyHappy

ToTheNines, what a brilliant idea!!! Off to order a pad so I can cut it up. BroncMo, thanks for asking this question in such a clear, concise way.

No problem! I was hoping it made sense and didn’t turn in to a “you need to build his topline” conversation. He’s truly an oddball in his build. While his topline has been difficult in the past, we figured out the best nutritional program for him and being in the most consistent work he’s ever participated in, it’s like a brand new topline. But his structural build still makes him a bit odd in that department.

[EventerAJ]

I will add, for others lurking on this post, that you should make sure your saddle is not too narrow. Many horses have man-made hollows behind the scapula from pinching tree points. After several rides in a tight, pinching saddle, the muscle behind the shoulder blade starts to atrophy, and the horse is left with obvious “dips” that many riders incorrectly assume is “just his conformation.” No, it isn’t. A high-withered TB can still have a strong, muscular back beginning at his scapula, IF his saddle fits well, is placed properly, and the horse is ridden over his back.

Until the muscle builds back up, try to use a slightly-wider saddle with a thick, pocket shim pad and wool felt shims where needed.

[BroncoMo]

@EventerAJ

I will add, for others lurking on this post, that you should make sure your saddle is not too narrow. Many horses have man-made hollows behind the scapula from pinching tree points. After several rides in a tight, pinching saddle, the muscle behind the shoulder blade starts to atrophy, and the horse is left with obvious “dips” that many riders incorrectly assume is “just his conformation.” No, it isn’t. A high-withered TB can still have a strong, muscular back beginning at his scapula, IF his saddle fits well, is placed properly, and the horse is ridden over his back.

Until the muscle builds back up, try to use a slightly-wider saddle with a thick, pocket shim pad and wool felt shims where needed.

Thank you for this. I will not rule out a narrower tree as a possibility. I will say, my trainer’s saddles are a touch wider than mine and seem to fit him very well. And he is ridden well over his back. It is possible he needs to more time to develop some muscles in the area, but structurally I tend to think this is kind of his build. We will see with time. I just figured I’d start the conversation to see what others have done, since I can’t actually go get fitted until the apocalypse chills a little.

[ToTheNines]

BroncoMo, my Snoop (Supernatural) is an own son of Natural Iron, out of a paint mare whose breeding I don’t recall. I can get out his papers if you want. Very pretty horse. [ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“medium”,“data-attachmentid”:10621872}[/ATTACH]

[NaturallyHappy]

BroncoMo, what does your trainer ride in??

[BroncoMo]

@ToTheNines

BroncoMo, my Snoop (Supernatural) is an own son of Natural Iron, out of a paint mare whose breeding I don’t recall. I can get out his papers if you want. Very pretty horse. [ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“medium”,“data-attachmentid”:10621872}[/ATTACH]

Super cute. I thought his topline looked built similar to mine, who is The Big Sensation and Sky Blue Walker. With the full body picture I now see the Natural Iron

[BroncoMo]

@NaturallyHappy

BroncoMo, what does your trainer ride in??

Well I was going to avoid posting brands to avoid brand bias. We both ride CWDs. Mine is the close contact model, my trainer’s main saddle is a Mademoiselle. She has another that I can’t remember the model. From what I understand, the Mademoiselle regular tree is slightly wider than the close contact. Then again, it’s hard to fit saddles over the phone

[NaturallyHappy]

I was just curious;). Thanks!

[BroncoMo]

@ToTheNines

BroncoMo, my Snoop (Supernatural) is an own son of Natural Iron, out of a paint mare whose breeding I don’t recall. I can get out his papers if you want. Very pretty horse. [ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“medium”,“data-attachmentid”:10621872}[/ATTACH]

Off topic but figured I’d show off my Paint too This was his first derby. A little loose in the lower leg, but he was 100% amateur trained and maintained at that time.