I have a bit of a curious case of a horse on my hands, who has a narrow back, normal on the high side withers, but wide spine. I do expect her to fill out as she currently has no topline muscles, but for the time being my prestige jumping saddle’s channel is way too narrow (4.5" at wool “buttons”, 2.2’’ at it’s narrowest point) and she seems very uncomfortable to the point where she protests when the saddle is put on her back. I’m not ready to ride her with pads, adjustments etc. while we find a replacement - it’s that bad. The seller’s Albion dressage saddle (a good full inch wider at it’s narrowest point) seems to be the only one that she likes (very nice saddle but I’m not jumping in it :lol:).
I’ve committed to lease this horse (off-site) for some time and potentially buy down the line. I probably wouldn’t want to invest in a saddle >1k until I know that I’m buying the horse. What are my options? Anybody has had success with widening their saddle’s channel? Any jump saddles that are known to fit a wide spine? Any tack stores that offer generous trials?
Have you tried a Wintec? Just throwing it out there, because I don’t know. I’d be tempted to call out a saddle fitter, get some good templates, go from there.
What do you mean “narrow back but wide spine”? Do you mean a more A-frame back, dropping off the spine, but the spine itself is wide? Prestige typically has a wide channel, so that’s why I’m curious what you really mean.
Got pictures of the saddle on? Girthed up, no pad, show the whole horse from the side, do a 3/4 front view showing the whole saddle and shoulder and withers.
Prestige saddles can be widened up to 2 sizes, but that’s the front, not the whole gullet. You can’t widen the whole gullet without redoing the saddle, at which point you’re looking at a different saddle for the $.
@Obsidian Fire I will definitely get a fitter to come out, but was just thinking about which rep to work with because they tend to carry different brands…
I do agree with you - my prestige has been as great as it gets in terms of fit so far and I’ve been able to half-pad my way through on pretty much every horse until I met her with no complaints. I did not take pictures of the back and/or saddle fit but as soon as I get her shipped over will do. I do have an older model, but maybe it’s worth bringing out their rep to see if they can adjust. Will update once I get the pics. For the first few days, I guess I’ll just do lunging and ride her with a surcingle until the rep comes out.
She’s definitely “A” shaped with the tip of A being quite wide. She doesn’t have a whole lot of back muscles (let down OTTB) and I bet awkward fitting saddles haven’t helped with muscle development. While she definitely looks healthy in terms of weight and I’d describe her as medium on the narrower side ride, as of now her spine is quite articulated and the spaces below withers are “empty”. To be clear, her back is not exactly awful and the saddle did not look awkward on the withers and I discovered this pretty much by accident… When I was tacking her up for the vet ride, out of curiosity I put the saddle on bareback to check the fit. It didn’t look perfect but there was enough wither clearance and I thought the pad will do the trick. Despite that a horse that didn’t need to be sedated for x-rays started moving anxiously and touching her back, which told me that she does not like this saddle! So I started putting my hand deeper from withers in the channel, which made me realise that about a hand deep inside the sides of the panels are literally sitting on her spine. I toyed around with filling out the withers space using a bandage fleece, but the saddle still ended up sitting on the back and she was still unhappy on the cross-ties without even girth put on. Vet saw the fit and suggested I do not ride her in the saddle.
I specifically had the vet come and see her being ridden during PPE, since she has a habit of frequent head tossing and has a reputation for being a “difficult” ride. She’s definitely pretty sensitive, but just so willing to please and IMO otherwise an enjoyable ride, so I wanted to rule out any pain issues before I start correcting any unwanted behaviours. So on that second ride I put on my own bridle with KK Ultra bit (my go to for any new horse) and the saddle and the behaviour was 80-90% gone and she just felt like a different ride - far less go, no problem with sitting canter & trot. Vet who observed said that no red flags whatsoever.
Thanks all for your responses!
No, I don’t believe you can widen the channel on a saddle. You will need to buy something new, or lease something (Equestrian Imports does this).
Saddle channels have definitely gotten wider over time. If you need to go Medium-Narrow in the tree, you may want to check out some of the British brands like Albion and Black Country which make a variety of tree sizes standard. They are also wool flocked so a fitter can adjust some as the horse puts on muscle.
If the real issue is that there are big hollows on either side of the wither that let things drop onto her spine, you may need to look for something with a wither gusset.
If the issue is farther down (she has a long wither), then you’re looking for a longer/higher wither profile and a deeper panel to keep the channel up off of the base of the withers. Wool flocked saddles tend to have deeper panels, and some brands like Equipe offer extra panel depth as an option (and stamp the inside of the saddle with the extra depth).
Lots of tack shops that have consignment saddles will offer you a 7 day trial, but honestly the shipping back and forth gets so expensive that you are better off paying a fitter to come out with a bunch if you have one relatively locally.
100% agree - can’t widen the channel, that’s a whole new tree
also 100% agree that saddles have gotten with it, and gotten much better with wider channels - for the sake of ALL horses, not just catering to the wide-spined ones.
I LOVE Black Country saddles - very similar, IME, in fit to Prestige, but more modern and with wider channels. They also have Trapezious gussets specifically for horses with hollows at the withers, but for a horse who is actively putting on muscle, definitely use shims instead. The Trap gussets really are better for horse with that actual conformation, not just loss of muscle.
Do you have the option to hack this horse a lot in the well-fitting dressage saddle before you go jump saddle shopping? It sounds like her back has virtually no topline, and a few weeks of stretchy hill walking in tack that fits well (so she’s not hollowing to protect her back) will very likely change her overall shape quite significantly.
I lease a medium narrow ottb with a prominent spine and crazy high withers. I use a Thorowgood high wither GP with a thinline and a shimmed pad (even the high wither AP isn’t enough without shis). You can trial the Thorowgoods from Smartpak and buy them used from England. Mine was $409 and looks new.
I’d have it first looked at by a good local independent fitter. If the tree is pin straight, tree shape works for the back, and the panel angles look good, send it to Brittany Bird. For waaay less than the cost of a used saddle she will rebuild the panels to make a wider channel. Check out her Facebook page. The woman is a wizard and very well regarded. If she can’t do it, she will be honest. I’d absolutely pursue a channel widening first. Even if the panels are foam, she does great conversions if the panel structure allows a foam to will change.
You might look to Stackhouse Saddles. A friend has one for her BIG TB mare. Surprisingly Mare ears a Narrow tree to make room for Himalayan withers but gets well over her very well spring rigs. I am a big Black Country fan too.
I’d check out black country. They usually have wither gussets and nice wide channels that work well for most horses.
Sidenote: WHY IN THE WORLD do saddle brands continue to make saddles with inadequate channel widths?! Drives me batty.
Also, you can get used black country saddles for reasonable prices.
Re the sidenote: I DON’T KNOW! I don’t get it either. I see some for sale quite often that are just so narrow in the channel.
I recently ordered and tried some saddles from Sommer. They can customize a bit regarding channel and I found most of theirs (all new) to be decent. However, I don’t know what the North American market is like for Sommer.
That being said, I’ve seen wide channels on Schleese saddles (not a fan, personally) and WOW saddles. I think you can do a lot of alterations with the WOW saddles, but I don’t have much experience with them, and they do require a good WOW specific fitter.
The channel on my Fairfax is ok, and I’ve seen some Black Country and Bliss/Loxley saddles that have been alright too.
My PRE isn’t terribly wide, but he does prefer/need a wide channel on his saddle, so I get what the OP is talking about.
Other ones I’d take a look at include Albion and Frank Baines.
Nice brand with a fit very similar to most Prestige
Sidenote: WHY IN THE WORLD do saddle brands continue to make saddles with inadequate channel widths?! Drives me batty.
She said hers is an older model, and that’s just how things were mostly done in “older days”, but for sure, lots of cheaper, and I’d guess some not so cheap saddles are still made with narrower channels :no:
@tohorse I would see if you can ride in the seller’s Dressage saddle for now, since the description of her topline (“she currently has no topline muscles” ) says she shouldn’t be jumping (much, or big) right now anyway, and a Dressage saddle can definitely be jumped in over smaller things while you’re doing the flatwork to build her topline.
I would also suggest looking at Smith-Worthington saddles. They can do remote fitting via pictures and tracings, and their saddles are high quality although not as well known.
So I followed your advice, bought an Albion, which seemed to fit her beautifully and rode in it for the last month. As predicted she has started filling out her topline fast. Last week also got a saddle fitter to have a look at her and funnily enough she said no saddle will actually fit her, because she’s narrow, with a fairly high wither but a round barrel so my best bet is to have a wider saddle and have corrective padding that lifts the front in a sort of gradual way. Funnily the Albion apparently doesn’t actually fit her as it sits on her lats, but the prestige just needs lifting at the front. I’ve tried riding in it again with corrective padding and so far she hasn’t really been complaining.
I will say you need a different saddle fitter because that is a load of crap. I do not say that lightly because I really try hard not to talk bad about other professionals . My horse is exactly built like you are talking about. He was a medium with sky high withers until I became a saddle fitter and a better rider and he then filled out to mw. However he took a 54" jumping girth and a 32" dressage at 16 hands. A 52" girth did not even reach the billets in the jump saddle. Just a huge barrel with very narrow high withers.
Over the years, I have regularly had 3 different brands of saddles on him. I rode him in different saddles depending on what I had in stock at the moment. None with a half pad. He was comfortable. He would tell me otherwise and we were doing 2nd/3rd level when he was 25 after retiring him from jumping.
I agree the fitter is probably wrong. I only say probably because I can’t see the back.
There are saddles with built-in trapezius padding to fill in where muscle isn’t, whether because of atrophy, or simply because they are shaped like your horse. Trumbull Mountain has good info on that, and offer several saddles with that feature
But I also agree that sometimes fitting to the rest of the back, and properly using shims can work very well. Balance Saddle International wholeheartedly believes in that and has lots of shim styles and configurations to help there.
