A few years ago I purchased a Schleese Obrigado for my Lusitano, who has a shorter back, more because of his size (15.2) than having a “square” conformation. He is not a horse who has opinions on many things, he is quite stoic. So it went with this saddle. He seems the same in this saddle as he did with his previous one (Albion SLK). Despite the extremely hefty price tag, and regular saddle fitting adjustments with Schleese reps, his top line has not developed, and recently I’ve noticed indentations in the middle of his back, on either side of his spine. I don’t feel the saddle fitting any differently. I am petite, fairly slender, and am a competent rider with an independent seat, so I don’t think it is my riding. I am in regular lessons with a good trainer, so I don’t think it is the training. That leaves the saddle. The Obrigado was designed to provide shoulder relief and to not extend past the 18th rib. In doing this, wouldn’t the saddle then concentrate pressure in the remaining area of the back? I am wondering if this is what’s happening in my case, causing the indentations. To be fair, I will have the reps out again and discuss my observations with them, to see if there is a saddle fitting solution. In the meantime, I’d like input on your experiences with fitting saddles on shorter backed horses, and what solutions worked for you. Thanks in advance for your posts!
My lusitano is short backed and I (briefly) considered an obrigado but was put off by the price. Have been quite satisfied with my Custom Wolfgang Constanze, which also comes w/ a shorter panel. Much less expensive.
My PRE isn’t what I consider to be super short backed but he’s a big horse at 16.2hh and quite wide in the body. I have had good success with the Trilogy saddles (XW tree) and I like the wider flatter supportive panels with this saddle and very wide spine channel. I did at one point notice some small cupping areas at one point and after a saddle adjustment with re-flocking and time they have completely disappeared. I like my saddle to have a roomier fit so that a sheepskin pad can be used with it so accommodating that and adjusting the panel shape to be more flatter is what helped.
I had a 15.3hh Luso with a fairly short back. First rode him in a Kieffer Lusitano for 4 years, then a Bates Innova for about 5. We schooled to PSG. I sold him to a nice rider who wanted a schoolmaster and they have his Innova. After 2 years being ridden by an ammy, who is more petite and lighter than me, he now has lost muscle mass and has indentations as you describe. His riding program is much lighter than it was and using his back correctly/consistently has also changed…hence the visual changes.
Conversely, my first Andi came to me with the back indentations. After a year of consistent, correct work, his back muscled up.
One thing you might want to check is the gullet width of the saddle. Luso tend to need a very wide gullet to accommodate the spinal processes and the connective tissue surrounding the spin. There are lots of saddles and brands that can fit that typical built of a horse.
I have a pre 16.2 that goes well in a custom solo monoflap
Mine wore a Black Country Vinici until he outgrew it. Now he’s in a Albion SLK.
I have a 15.2 PRE with a short back…I’m talking like 16 inches of support space. I had started a thread here and tried many of the saddles suggested but they all still sat beyond that last rib/correct vertebra. It’s been fun. Especially if you don’t want to shell out the $$$ for a Custom, Schleese, or Trilogy.
Normally Schleese saddles have a generous gullet width, but that’s worth looking at. Perhaps the saddle is too curvy for him if it is making indents mid back? Sometimes in an effort to make saddles shorter, the panels can be more upswept or banana shaped. This wouldn’t work so well for a flatter backed horse. Does the saddle rock at all front to back when you put pressure on the pommel or cantle? Maybe it concentrates too much weight in one area. I wonder this about saddles with upswept rear panels and open front panels by the withers (French cusion style) because a lot of the weight would be in the middle and not spread front or back.
I’m still on a hunt for the right saddle. I have one that is ok, but a tad too long. I am close to ordering a custom made saddle, but am hesitant given past experiences and the extensive used market. I still cannot get over saddle prices in America! The mark-ups (compared to Europe) are insane!
Either way, see what the fitter can do for you. Or maybe try a different fitter. You may be able to use a shim pad as a temporary solution depending on the issue.
So that would indicate the issue may be my riding? Hmmm…I was hoping it wasn’t. However, before the indentations appeared, he had been off work for a month, but we had been walking under saddle during that time. He was almost certainly losing some muscle mass (and getting fat, too). I wish there was someone in the Houston area I trusted to give me an educated opinion. Someone who didn’t want to just sell me a new saddle.
Thanks! I’ll check today to see if it rocks. There is a saddle maker in Germany whose saddles looked interesting. It is called Ibero Sattels. The panels come further down the sides of the horse, to distribute pressure over a wider area. I’m wondering if that might be a solution. Here is a link to one of their saddles.
https://www.iberosattel.de/en/dressage/dressage-andaluz/
In my case, I believe it is my riding. I have two Obrigados, one for each Lusitano. One has a much shorter back than the other, so the panels on his saddle are shorter. He has that dip, and I am beginning to be able to suck his back up by correcting my asymmetry and using more core energy. This helps him move more correctly and he is beginning to build his back and topline, use his abs, and relax the underside of his neck.
I have short backed/baroque style Connemara ponies and I use the Passier Compact. Specifically designed for this type of horse 
I had an Obrigado for an Andi and it was wonderful but was NOT the saddle for my current Lusitano. I thought I had the right one in a Lemke (they are built for Iberians) but now ride in a Custom Solo II and it is wonderful.
SO you might look at Lemke Saddlery - not quite as pricey as the Custom. They are more common on the west coast - maybe you can find a used one… her facebook page is much better than her website. https://www.facebook.com/Lemke-Saddle-Services-Inc-110972228921339/
Ok I’ll start this by saying I am not a Schleese fan… that all said I have owned an obrigato and currently own a wave. Reason I dislike them is the balance for my body is horrible. My body is much happier in a French style saddle.
That all said you buy what works for your horse and for horse and client. Therefore I can say that we have quite a few schleese saddles in the barn, some with more success then others.
My own horse in the wave has developed the shelving you have described. Sadly I just purchased another new saddle for him!
Out of four schleese two horses have this shelving of the back muscles. The other two horses are fine. Independent saddle fitter has sold and fit them all. I guess what I would hypothesize is that the two people with no issues love the balance point. The two of us who don’t like the balance for ourselves but our horses loved the saddle, now have the problems.
So my best guess is because the balance isn’t perfect for the rider, the rider can cause the shelving of the horses back muscles, even if the saddle fits the horse. There are three issues when looking at saddle fit. The saddle itself, the horse, and the rider… short one of these three and there will be a problem down the road. Sadly sometimes we have to buy something that isn’t perfect for us, but we have to always remember saddles are short term especially as the horses progress.
Thanks for your reply. What saddle did you replace the Schleese with?
I just ordered him the devoucoux harmonie… ouch it even hurts to write that! My horse moves so much better in it. I’m able to close up his half steps to piaffe on the spot and collecting the canter just off my seat. The reach in this saddle in the half passes is much better and slower tempo. Add in I ride much better in it and yeah I scorched my credit card! Hahaha
Scary bit is standing in the aisle… saddle bridges… but I have the old shelving of his back muscles to fix. After the ride tho I have even sweat pattern so it must not be bridging while moving. But yeah, I’m a little freaked! Keep telling myself it’s only money and… yeah freaked!
He’s gorgeous! I’ll look at the Devoucoux. Can’t be any more $$ than the Obrigado! Oh well, can’t take it with you!
Re thes dips in the back…is there every any warning signs? Dry spots or roughed up hair?
I’m really tempted to try a French saddle and
occasionally I see reasonably priced CWD and Devoucoux used saddles. I am just afraid to lose my Wool flocking! However, a lot of the French saddles are shorter with upswept panels.
FWIW, this is the “space” I have to work with: [ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name: 20171127_172525.jpg Views: 1 Size: 17.0 KB ID: 9943278”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“9943278”,“data-size”:“medium”}[/ATTACH]
I didn’t have any warning signs, but my horse had been out of work for a month, so I’m now suspecting he may have lost some muscling due to that. I will wait and see if the situation improves with regular work. I can see from your picture there is not a lot of room to work with, between the wither and 18th vertebrae.
have you checked out dominique barbier saddles? they are specifically made for breeds like lusitanos
