saddle fit -- uneven shoulders

[rjr]

I am having saddle fit problems with my 3rd level warmblood gelding. His build seems average, but with big-ish shoulders. The issue is that apparently both shoulders extend back pretty far into the saddle area, and the Right shoulder is bigger than the left. Whatever I put on him tends to get pushed over by the larger right shoulder and shift to the left. Many saddles tend to ride forward onto his shoulders, but even when I get one that looks like it has good shoulder clearance, is still shifts left. A shoulder-relief (anatomical) girth helps a bit, but doesn’t completely fix the issue. A fore-girth is of no use, it actually makes the problem worse by pushing the saddle back more on the right.

   I have tried many saddles and have had other people ride in them too; so I am sure it is a horse/saddle problem and not me riding crooked.  The horse is not markedly assymetric in his movement (he has a stiff side and a favorite lead like most horses, but not extreme).  I do often feel that the crooked saddle and inability to shift my weight to the right affect my ability to get the bend and lateral work that I want. 

I have now had one saddle custom made for him, and another saddle with an adjustable tree where we had the tree adjusted asymetrically.  Both saddles are STILL shifting to the left.  I have worked with a good saddle fitter and adjusted the flocking on both of these saddles and others.  I STILL can't get a fit that I am happy with.  

Has anyone had a similar problem?? Any recommendation for saddles that might work? Especially saddles with very good shoulder clearance?

[rizzodm]

I have the same problem! It is very frustrating. I have taken a folded washcloth and placed it under the saddle where the saddle is lower. It works if I get it just right.
I have just started having this problem so I hope the flocking just needs to be adjusted (it has been a year since it has been checked). I am having the saddle fitter out next week so I hope it can be solved.

[jaybird660]

I personally prefer not to adjust the saddle asymmetrically and would rather experiment with shimming. Have you tried that at all or tried opposite quadrants? It is common for the saddle to shift or dive into the hollow side but can depend on where the bulge of the larger shoulder is. Sometimes you need to shim the hollow and the opposite rear but I always suggest trying different placements until you get stability.

[sheltona01]

I have the same problem with my guy due to his hind end issues. He is a 22 Tb former Prelim eventer. He has both Hock and Stifle issues and his left hind leg is more of a problem which has lead to uneven shoulders. I use a Prolite Multi Pad on him to balance out the saddle and give his back a little more protection. The goal is to work him equally on both sides to slowing even out the shoulders. I adjust the shims as it is developing until he is back to even. PM me if you want more information

[IndyEquestrian]

I agree with Jay on the shimming. I just fit one of the most difficult to fit horses that I’ve ever come across. His right shoulder is larger, so saddles were slipping left. We didn’t build the tree asymmetrically, and as his unevenness is from an injury, the best guess is that he will always be that way. We gave ourselves plenty of working room in the gussets to get the perfect fit, and now it stays put, but I’m sure I will have to adjust flocking as it breaks in.

We use a ton of the ECP shimmable pads to help with asymmetries that are temporary. Also, Total Saddle Fit sent me a demo 6 point pad to try out, and I do like the 6 pockets.

[Maude]

This may not seem like it makes sense, but…I have an 8 yr old WB mare who is a saddlefitter’s nightmare. Her right shoulder is larger and had a bigger dip behind it than the left. Large laid back shoulder too. Nothing that sat behind the shoulder/scapula worked. Nothing. Everything shifted especially to the outside at the canter. I ended up with an Hermes. It is a monoflap and sits over her shoulder blade about 3/4-1 inch. When girthed up, the billets pull the flaps down and in and free up the area of the saddle at the withers/shoulder blades. I can slip my hand under the front of the flap and feel her shoulder moving freely. It also puts me a bit more forward on her back and with the motion rather than behind it. I also discovered that I cannot lean back even a little bit or the saddle shoves forward then twists. My horse is years behind in her training due to saddle fit issues, custom saddles that never worked as well as time off over each winter.

Since I have had the Hermes, she has progressed quickly. The saddle looks like it wouldn’t fit until it is girthed. If it is placed behind the shoulders it looks awful. So, my advice (and I’m no fitter, just someone with a ton of experience in a hard to fit horse) I’d suggest trying a french monoflap like an Antares, Devocoux, Hermes, Luc Childeric or L’Apogee. Try it over the shoulder slightly so it is level. I’m sure I’ll be blasted by fitters on this forum, but honestly this was what my particular horse needed. And…her shoulders are now even though one is slightly more laid back than the other due to her 2 different front feet. But the saddle stays put. I also make sure she is standing squarely when girthing and do up the girth 1 or 2 holes each side and go back and forth so the pull is the same.

[myrna]

Same problem here. Our Schleese saddle fitter also carries the Zaldi saddles.I now have a saddle that fits my horse! go to her web site.
theperfectsaddlefit.com and look at the Sanjorge saddle with the anatomic panel option.I am more than happy with my saddle and so is my goofy horse!

[no.stirrups]

Questions:
Why is one shoulder bigger? A common cause is hi-lo heels. Have you consulted your farrier to see if he can help? Gotten a second opinion?

Are you sure the saddle isn’t placed too far forward? It should be enough behind the shoulder that the different shoulder sizes are not so much an issue. IME, it is the different size wither pockets that are more of a fitting issue.

When you say the saddle shifts left, do you mean the whole saddle slides left, or it twists left so the cantle is further left than the pommel?

[3s1]

Actually most horses have one shoulder bigger (usually the left). Just like most humans are right-handed. There are a number of possible reasons, and even the experts cannot agree which is the real reason. Fact is, that unless the tree can be adjusted to accommodate this asymmetry, you will be left with shimming for the rest of your life. The bigger shoulder tends to shift the saddle to the opposite side during movement, which can cause a whole whack of other problems for both horse and rider. There are a number of saddles which can be adjusted asymmetrically (depends on the gullet plate used) including Passier, Schleese, Hennig (I think…) DK. Most of the saddles made on ‘traditional English trees’ may be somewhat adjustable - but usually only once.

[3s1]

Horse Asymmetry

Actually most horses have uneven shoulders - usually the left (just like most humans are right-handed, most horses are left-handed). There are a number of possible reasons for this, and even the experts can’t agree 100% as to the causes or genetics. Fact is that unless you have a truly adjustable tree (and most really aren’t) to accommodate this asymmetry, you will be stuck with trying to fix the issue with shimming the rest of your life. During movement the larger shoulder will move the saddle over to the opposite (smaller) shoulder, which leads to a whole bunch of other problems for both horse and rider - especially as the rider tries to ‘even’ this out with positioning. There are really only a few truly adjustable gullet plates on the market - including Passier, Schleese, Hennig (I think, but I’m not sure about their new trees), and DK. The traditionally built English saddles with their multi-riveted gullet plates are possibly adjustable - maybe once - but certainly not to the extent to truly accommodate a larger shoulder properly.

[no.stirrups]

[QUOTE=3s;8351416]
Actually most horses have uneven shoulders [/QUOTE]

Of course, but not to such an extent that it causes such problems. I always point out their horse’s asymmetries to my clients and I further attempt to ascertain the reason for the asymmetry. Asymmetries can often be improved upon with proper management, such as good trimming/shoeing and good riding. On follow-up visits I always look at whether the horse is more or less asymmetrical than the last time I saw it. Asymmetries can be changed if not eradicated. Addressing the asymmetry directly could be part of the solution for the OP.

[3s1]

Actually it can cause such problems. That’s why it needs to be addressed - either in training, in saddle fit, or in remedial shimming. The complete eradication is generally not possible, since it is actually based on skeletal structure, not necessarily muscular. This topic is addressed in many books and as I said, the actual cause for asymmetry is still contentious - but it is not disputed that it exists and causes problems - all the way to lameness. Especially many hind right lamenesses are caused by a larger left shoulder, which impacts saddle fit to such a degree that even veterinarians recognize it as a reason for saddle slippage to the right, impinging the nerves and muscles along the spinal column.

[no.stirrups]

3s, you start out as if you are going to disagree with me, and then you say pretty much the same thing I said. Unless I am missing something?

[3s1]

I am trying to be diplomatic. I disagree that you say that asymmetry does not cause problems ‘to such an extent’. It can and it does unless the saddle is properly fitted.

[no.stirrups]

My statement was that although asymmetry is present in most horses, it does not usually cause problems of this magnitude. Of course it can happen, but it bears looking more deeply at the causes of the asymmetry to see what can be done to alleviate it, in addition to addressing saddle fit, which you supported in your post. We are arguing for the same thing.