I’m also “vertically challenged”. Well placed blocks are nice because I really don’t notice them. I recently had a fitter come out to the farm, and the brand they rep’d was one I’d never tried. Every single saddle (and I tried several models) had big, hard blocks with no curve or shape other than oval lump, and I felt like I would have bruises on my legs if I rode in them for very long. I was miserable in all of them, and my horse wasn’t thrilled either, except for one, and the seat for me was awful. I loved the blocks on my Artiste, as they had a gentle curve around the leg, and I’m happy with the blocks on my Albion Revelation…large, but not intrusive, and still comfy if I need them.
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I actually had bruises on my knees from one saddle like what you described! And it was a really hard knee block. Not to say that my own position wasn’t at least some at fault but the saddle was not going to work for me.
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Not at all!!! Your topic is a great discussion starter! It’s the saddle fitter posts that irk me - the social media trend of “discuss and maybe I’ll give you an opinion if you read long enough.” And you’ve used that type of post to start an interesting discussion here!
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Totally get it now.
I think maybe the no thigh blocks thing has some merit as in, not everyone body type/horse combo needs one but I’m thinking that the position discussion she talks about doesn’t have a ton of relevance to the average rider. Comparing my actual chair seat to say a moment where Charlotte Dujardin doesn’t have absolutely perfect alignment during a moment extended trot in a Grand Prix test isn’t actually very relevant.
At least that’s what I’m taking from this thread. Which makes sense.
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I follow this person on FB. A couple of months ago I too posted a “reality check” thread here on something or other they were saying. COTH comments confirmed my sense that this person generally starts with an accepted truth, then veers off into plausible but incorrect claims, many of which may be biased towards selling Stubbens to lower level adult dressage ammies.
Chair seat, floppy legs, forward tilt, toes pointing out, sitting lengthened trot, are all the bane of life of lower level adult ammies without a lot of core strength, and these clients are often seeking a saddle to feel more secure on their Warmbloods that are just a tetch too much horse for them really. At my barn Schleese has totally ocaptured this market with a similar blend of accepted truth + plausible untruth + overpromising. Different claims but same strategy.
I would add that it makes sense and isn’t entirely wrong for this fitter to be speaking out against thigh blocks. Her target market of physically weaker lower level dressage ammies does have a tendency to drift towards saddles that lock your seat in place and force your leg back. They can learn to brace against the thigh blocks. This does have negative consequences for developing seat, aids, strength. It can also cause back and hip pain especially if the fit is wrong. And the recent dressage saddles can be very exaggerated. They can resemble a jousting saddle or an Auusie stock saddles with polleys.
It’s also true extreme blocks are a trend of the past 20 years so if you source photos from the past (or of some older riders still active) they will be in much flatter saddles.
I’m not sure it’s very useful for your average showing Training/ riding first/ “schooling” second adult ammie with weak core muscles to look to random photos of top riders for feedback on their own position and development and saddle fit.
Also about chair seat. I think on a previous post this fitter made the point the line should drop through the middle ball socket hip joint, not line up butt and heel as she appears to be doing with Klimke. Also top dressage riders move their legs for different cues. Half pass, canter, flying change. I doubt the rider in the lower photo rides with her calf back there all the time.
Chair seat is very dependent on horse barrel, saddle configuration and your own core strength. My beefy uphill Paint pushes me into chair seat. Other horses push me to tip forward. Improving my overall core strength has helped with both.
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Oh was that maybe the Stubben post I’m thinking of? I’m sorry to repost such a similar topic. I remember that thread I believe although I didn’t think it was 100% the same. Or it sounds like she’s dove even deeper into it.
Your post sounds along the lines of what I was thinking. It’s just not very relevant for the average amateur rider. Especially photos of a Grand Prix test!
I definitely can get a chair seat depending on what saddle/horse I’m on and also what’s going on with my body in general. Interestingly enough taking my thigh blocks is something I’m considering doing but my theory is it will actually help me not have a chair seat…
annnnd…you did just post a vid of your dd (riding very wellll) A couple of folks chimed-in about her riding in a chair seat. This could be mamma-bear defense of her cub? (see what i did there Lunabear)
No, the thing I posted was different. I think it was toes pointing in or out plus leg length and drape. Maybe. Started off plausible, then got to a point I didn’t trust what she was saying. Edited to add: no I think my post was about the fitters comments on whether the dressage saddles were forward seat or back seat, and effect on rider balance with horses motion.
I think it’s always worth having a look at these plausible but often wrong claims from online “experts” because they do address persistent issues for many of us. COTH is the best place to do it 
enough collective experience to call out BS.
I ride in an older Passier Optimum with very modest knee rolls. I’ve also done a bit of time in my coach’s beloved collection of 1980s pancake Grand Gilberts. And also jump saddles. Getting rid of the knee rolls is not a magic cure for chair seat. Indeed riding bareback often puts you in chair seat though my beefy mare has built in thigh blocks on her muscular shoulders.
What helped me was learning to drop my knee and thigh rather than jam my heel down and forward especially when anticipating a buck. Also learning to lift through my ribcage rather than throw my shoulders back. But it’s also most an issue for me on my beefy uphill mare partly because my lower leg drifts forward to the girth groove and partly because I revert to the Western Slump of my teen years on long trail rides.
I have never ridden in a huge block saddle. My observation is that it could mess with your seat if you moved your leg forward to brace (chair seat) but could also make you topple forward if the block is set to push your leg back.
I did have an interesting experience a few years ago riding a borrowed horse. The saddle was similar to mine but a full size smaller. It seemed fine walk trot. At canter it started giving me back pain because my seat was too constricted to go with the full range of movement. Obviously not the same as a custom big block saddle, but it made me wonder if the many dressage ammies who complain of body pain are being made worse by constricted deep seats and blocks.
I would look at stirrup bar placement and the deepest point of the saddle in regards to chair seat.
But my coach can ride any horse in any saddle and never lose her equitation so it’s not really about the saddle.
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No honestly I was thinking about posting this anyways but that reminded me about it. Me and that poster had a really lovely conversation. We took it to private message to not clog up that other thread but basically I agreed with her assessment but at the same time I’m not the instructor and I know the instructor has reasons for how she’s teaching my daughter at the moment. Mostly due to confidence and balance. She was super sweet and told me she thought my daughter had a great seat. My daughter is 10 years old and I don’t think evaluating her at the sitting trot with no stirrups is at all relevant to what this saddle fitter is talking about especially since she uses photos of extremely talented professional riders in Grand Prix test. Which is why I wanted to post here. It’s definitely a different theory and I wanted to know what the experienced people here at COTH thought
I also tend towards a chair seat and I definitely don’t see it as a beneficial thing to my riding.
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Okay yes I do remember that thread. And I did see some similar post on her Instagram regarding that as well but I wasn’t sure if she was the original poster of that theory or not.
I did wonder if it is one way to kind of push Stubben’s in particular.
I have been having a lot of pain in general (in life not the saddle) And I think that is at least a partial cause for my position issues. One of these days I really need to just suck it up and get some physical therapy.
Here’s what i think… (and i’ll leave it to others to elaborate as-to how i am not a dressage expert 
)
Balance has nothing to do with legs. They are incidental. You use your butt and torso to balance and your legs for cues. They are loose appendages that increase or apply pressure in various places. HOW they hang actually isn’t important…the important part is they they are usefully placed. (and aesthetically appealing lol…because looks are important).
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I think to a point that is correct. I do think we’ve heard about this alignment for so long for a reason is it is the most likely to put the rider in a secure, effective and balanced position. But with a professional riders during certain movements, it’s not a big deal if they stray a few millimeters because they have all the right ingredients for everything else.
And I do actually think that’s why it’s not a huge deal if my ten year old is in a chairseat right now at the sitting trot because the instructor is focusing more on her seat following and not gripping anywhere. I wonder if trying to mess with her leg with no stirrups would cause her to grip? Maybe.
But I’m not sure that that is what this saddle fitter is totally advocating for.
guess i’d better read what the saddle fitter says before chiming in than huh.
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I’m going to go reread as well. She breaks it up in a lot of posts and isn’t always very clear with what she is saying. If she is saying “Hey these professional and talented riders shouldn’t be criticized for a moment of time and very particular Grand Prix moments where they don’t perfectly align because it’s not the same as an amateur with a weak core in a bad fitting saddle.” Then I don’t disagree (But is anybody criticizing these riders and their position?)
But if she’s advocating it’s better to ride like that all the time than I’m not so sure. And a kind of got that from some of her post but again she breaks it up into multiple posts maybe I miss something. And she talks about a lot of different things regarding saddles as scribbler pointed out. And there might be an agenda (selling a certain type of saddle.)
Not sure but I do think it’s kind of an interesting discussion.
And EVENLY placed. They weigh a lot, and if you aren’t straight or even, your horse will surely feel that.
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Truth. The other day in my lesson we were working on some half pass and you should have seen the crazy stuff I started to do towards the end of the lesson as I was getting tired. Basically at the end of the lesson I could only use one leg at a time and had my inside leg just hanging off the horse which certainly didn’t help our half pass lol. My trainer was like “um what are you doing with your inside leg?!”
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Same thoughts I’ve had on these posts. I wish more brands would allow no or pencil block options. I have a hard time finding the right fit, and it varies by horse, mostly because of my insistence my blocks can’t actually block me except when preventing unplanned ejections. (My thoroughbred had a talent for turning himself into a catapult. My trainer taught me to stay on and ride him out of the bucking, but blocks definitely helped at times.)
These posts just use that propaganda method of enough correct information to sell what includes faulty info. It may be true belief, bias from training by Stubben, or intentionally trying to pull the wool over people’s eyes. In this case I suspect bias the fitter doesn’t even realize is there, meant well, with a true belief the saddles mentioned will be the best answer.
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I really like the option of Velcro blocks honestly.
I agree that there might be an unconscious bias.
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Haddad-Staller is sponsored by Stuuben .
Sorry for the derail, but whenever her name is mentioned I can’t help but think of this; https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/train-trainers?page=2 and the reaction to it here; Catherine Haddad's latest editorial
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I wondered if there was a connection there.
And I read that article years ago, I forgot about that one. Yikes. Some valid points but lots of ego and assumptions in there.
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