Saddle fitting the MORGAN and schleese disaster

[misstanja]

Hey guys ???

This might be long but I am at a total loss with saddles

I have bought 2 schleese saddles within 2 years ( I should have been smart after #1)
1st was a Schleese HK
2nd a custom with super short tree,panels and shoulder relief

As more both saddles got adjusted as more I felt twisted. It wasn’t that the tree was “damaged” but the uneven adjustments make it feel as if I’m sitting twisted,uneven etc
Also I’m constantly falling to the left and having to push myself further back into the saddle.

When they are newly adjusted it worked well but after 5 to 8 weeks it all went to hell.

Since I’m back now into saddle search hell I really want to educated and not just take a saddle sellers word and throw money at them…I learned …but I thought I provide my horse and me the best.

He is a morgan…little butt high with a slight curved back
Very wide spinal process
He is very sensitive and cold backed and I’ve been working a lot with long/low,cavaletti and raised his back A LOT but prior bad training from previous owner left some damages we think

I am 5’4 with a long femur
Have to ride with at least a 40° angle since I have a hip spur. riding in a deep seat that closes me in and big tight blocks is killing my hip.

Schleese has been in my ears that nothing on the market will fit or can’t provide the rear facing tree points.
I feel that if I pay $400 ×2 a year for saddle fitting i can expect to work longer than 6 weeks

I rode in an albion which wasn’t even fitted and there was no twisting or sliding to the left. So what gives…
Sorry for the rant and being scatter brained. I would appreciate for any help,education and advise on how I can really find the saddle that will work for us. Thanks guys

[Keg-A-Bacchus]

I have the same pony. Super short back, slight curve to it longitudinally, WIDE and flat horizontally, slightly butt high and mutton withered. Throw in my long femur and need for set back stirrup bars and a medium-MW twist and we are a saddle fitting DREAM! LOL I did end up in a Schleese Wave after MUCH hunting and trial but I have an independent fitter do my adjustments. I do need to use a non-slip pad to keep from sliding left to right as their are no withers to hold us in. The ONLY one that worked is a super bizarre looking but extremely effective Grooma Airide pad. I just cut it to shape, it goes directly on her back and then my half pad and then saddle. My saddle fitter is extrembly talented and did an excellent job fitting us against all odds. As she develops sometimes she can get a bit asymmetrical if I’m schooling improperly and I need to put a shim in one side or the other until she muscles up evenly or I’m constantly falling off to one side. Take a look at your horse from behind and see if she has a weaker side that “pulls” the saddle down. If she does you can shim up just that side to keep you from falling off to that side and allow her to build those muscles up. I seriously feel your pain. I’m dying for the day they allow bareback dressage at shows and I’ll never own another saddle for this mare again. It’s a friggin’ nightmare!!!

[mylittlemorgan]

This won’t be too helpful if you’re specifically looking for something new, but I wanted to share our experiences in case that would help.

My husband’s wide-backed Morgan gelding has done very well in, of all things, a Collegiate dressage saddle. Fits him well, doesn’t slip, and he’s very happy in it. (They use it for trail riding and occasional railwork, but do not compete. I’ve shown this horse in dressage in my Crosby Centennial AP and he was also very happy in it.)

I’m short, have a very long thigh, and ride a sensitive, cold-backed Morgan mare. She does have higher withers than my husband’s horse. What has worked best for her (and me) is a Barnsby Raven - really nice workmanship, great tree, sturdy leather (though not supersoft, if that is something you want). You can still find them on consignment. It also does not have a deep or padded seat. She has been super comfy and happy in this saddle, at home and at shows.

[Equibrit]

http://duettsaddles.com/

http://www.smithworthington.com/index.php?p=product&id=711

[eks]

Who from Schleese is doing your fittings? It’s definitely worth it to have Jochen fit your horse before you give up on the saddle, if he hasn’t already done so.

[emo]

[QUOTE=eks;8793490]
Who from Schleese is doing your fittings? It’s definitely worth it to have Jochen fit your horse before you give up on the saddle, if he hasn’t already done so.[/QUOTE]

Voice of dissension here. I had Jochen fit my lovely OLD (12 years) custom Schleese. It was a saddle that every rider and horse loved, from ponies to hefty warmbloods. When he (or his minions working to his instructions) finished with it, no one could sit in it, and the horses absolutely hated it.

Long story short, I would not buy a pair of stirrup leathers from Schleese. Quite a number of my friends and acquaintances have had similar experiences.

[ladyj79]

Can’t stand sitting in a schleese, adore my Albion. Get an Albion.

[jaybird660]

Without seeing photos or tracings, I wonder if your horse would do better in a hoop type tree. Many Morgans that we fit are quite round and the more laterally open and broader pommel arch are helpful.

When that is combined with a downhill aspect or slightly narrower in front, then a deeper front panel or a full front gusset can help keep the saddle from diving down in front.

Black Country, Duett, Albion LH, Lovatt & Ricketts, Balance, Baines Capriole Xtra are just some of the saddles that offer hoop trees or hoop tree hybrids. Duett doesn’t offer a deeper front, nor full front gussets and Balance relies on a pad system.

[cmdrcltr]

No other help than to say I believe that Berney Bros. from Ireland uses rear-facing tree points in their saddles. Good luck!

[SonnysMom]

I have an arab cross that has the short back, low back, high withers but right behind the withers he is broad and flat.
I have had 2 Patrick saddles. They don’t move they are lovely. If you have access to a good independent fitter who can provide him with good wither tracings and pictures he may be able to help you out. I was lucky and was able to have him personally come do my fitting since he is in my area for a trade show twice a year.
Both of my saddles have been jumping saddles but his dressage saddles are just lovely. Based on his Facebook it seems like he actually makes more dressage saddles than jump saddles.
His saddles are not cheap but I believe would be much less than a new Schleese.
Pelham Saddlery has a few used ones. You might be able to at least try one of those to check out quality before you commit to an expensive custom saddle.
Disclaimer: one of the jump saddles is mine.
I don’t know if he does a hoop tree if you want to go that route. I would be very surprised if he didn’t. He is a truly custom saddler.

My horse is so difficult to fit that Stubben returned my deposit since they didn’t feel like they could make a saddle that we would be happy with.
At the trade show a number of the custom saddlers said they couldn’t make something for him and that my fitter needed to go talk to Patrick. His response was sure I can make one for him. And he did.

[islgrl]

I am not a fan of Schleese. I think they are not comfortable, they are HUGE and make it look like the saddle is eating my horse (short backed morgan) and heavy… I am waiting on my Baines Pirouette to arrive form the factory. I am built like you, my horse sounds like he is built like yours and this is what we found fit him best after trying MANY saddles. As I am buying new I ordered an extra wide gullet to accommodate his very wide spine and the panels are being made a bit short to account for his short back…

[DownYonder]

Our barn was full-on Schleese for some years, but the saddles were having to be adjusted more frequently than other brands. We (trainer and I) believe it is because the Adaptree tends to lose its ability to hold its adjustments as the saddle ages (and especially on big moving horses).

Most everyone in the barn is now riding in something else, although there are a few of us still using our Schleese saddles. Horsey and I love his Schleese Infinity II, but I do have to have it adjusted every 3-5 months, which is a bit of a pain. I have a WOW on order, but it was designed more for my trainer than for me (she rides my horse a lot more than I do), so I may end up keeping the Schleese if I have trouble adjusting to the WOW.

[Halfling]

This does not make sense but my mare is built very similarly to your horse. For years I was in saddle hell. Bought saddles, sold saddles, shipped saddles, 3 custom saddles and nothing worked. Finally I tried a Hermes and she loved it and continues to love it a year later. It has latex panels which conform to her back. I only use a Success Equestrian pad under it and she’s great. It has a rounded front edge which sits over the edge of her shoulder blades but the tree does not interfere with her shoulders. I would encourage you to try one if you can get your hands on one. My horse goes beautifully in a 17 1/2 wide.

[Halfling]

Similar saddles are Childeric, L Apogee and Antares.

[exvet]

I have had the mare version of your morgan (though she was half morgan and half welsh cob) and multiple welsh cobs shaped very similar to yours. I am very short waisted with a long femur too. I need a narrow twist with a more forward flap if I go with a smaller seat size (I ride in a 16 inch (13 hand pony) and 16.5 inch (14.2 and 15.0 hand ponies) saddle. I will say that albion has been my go to over and over the years (typically the style (older saddles), the SL or SLK. I have also found that cardanel and black country both work very well on my guys too. The cardanel saddles have a stirrup bar you can move which is awesome for those of us with a longer femur. Good luck.

[Pocket_Pony]

Love, love, love my Frank Baines Capriole! It is the only saddle I can comfortably ride my wide mustang in. He has wide withers, wide through the ribcage, and he’s downhill. I ride him in this and just a simple cotton pad. My pony was bred by exvet, who posted above, and while she’s not that wide yet, I use this saddle on her with a thick Woolback pad and it is fitting her well.

I also have a long femur and I got this saddle with removable (velcro) thigh blocks so I can adjust them if necessary. The seat is open so I feel more like I’m sitting in a jump saddle than a dressage saddle (seat-wise). I also have hip problems and this and my jumping saddle (Barnsby Original Milton) are the only two saddles I can ride in without being in pain. It feels like it puts me in just the right position so I’m not fighting the saddle, and it doesn’t move on my horse (other saddles have slipped on my mustang). The twist is wider than my jump saddle, but not wide (at least to me). They also make it in a lot of widths for wider horses.

I feel your pain, lit and fig - good luck!

[joiedevie99]

After a few absolute disasters, I won’t order custom anymore. I want to ride in the actual saddle I’m buying for several days. Between tweaks to the tree size and flocking, there is rarely a horse that needs something that is unavailable on the market used. And most “custom” saddles aren’t custom enough for that special snowflake that needs something that is otherwise unavailable. There are a few brands that make truly custom saddles, but I’ve never had to get that far.

I’ve really enjoyed my Black Country Vinici’s, and recently moved one into an Albion SLK LH, NS when he outgrew his Vinici.

IMHO, the trick is finding a fitter with a good enough inventory to let you try things to see what works and what doesn’t.

[no.stirrups]

IME, Schleese’s short panel is still longer than Black Country’s regular panel. And if you need really short you can custom order a short panel from BC. It definitely sounds as though your horse would benefit from their hoop tree, which many companies don’t offer at all, and a serge panel for his cold back.

For your leg, you might consider a GPD saddle, or customizing a dressage saddle with a more forward cut flap and/or a short block.

So I would start with Black Country for you, then Frank Baines Pirouette or Capriole, and Harry Dabbs Avant, Hunter, or IB. Panel length would cease to be a concern with Harry Dabbs as their performance panel is upswept.

It’s unfortunate when a fitter tells a client “nothing else will fit” but it happens often, and many of my clients believe it until they meet me. You have options!

[Inclined]

Another morgan owner here. DEFINITELY consider jaybird’s post and look at something with a hoop tree. It made all the difference for my guy, and I wish I’d started there.

[misstanja]

thank you everyone !!! I’ll come back and respond in details with some pictures. I’m going to research all which was mentioned and will come back with more questions for y’all!!! You guys are awesome!!! After all pony and me are not freaks of nature hahha much love