Saddle Fitting - To shim or not to shim?

[Thoro]

Think I’m having some issues with my saddle (County Stabilizer XTR) shifting from side to side in the rear. Horse has just started back into work from a long rehab, so I’m thinking asymmetry of muscling could be the issue.

When looking at my pads it appears that the left rear of the panel is drifting over and rubbing on the spine. I was planning on getting a new half pad and shimming up the front right, but today I rode without a pad to check out the sweat marks before making any hasty purchases. It appears that while the left side is slightly closer to her spine, it isn’t actually over it (attached some pics). There is definitely a lot of shifting from side to side when moving out though.

So at this point I’m not sure where to go with this. I had the saddle fit and reflocked last Spring, and checked again in the Fall. I was told it fit well both times - though the second guy mentioned possibly trying a shim in the right front - and wasn’t the cause of the snarkiness while tacking and in transitions. I noticed even back then that I was getting the same marks over the spine and mild shifting, but not to the degree we’re having now.

A few other things:

• Horse (sensitive off-track TB mare) was scoped and found ulcers. Treated with full round of GG and injectable omeprazole, followed by sucralfate, equishure, and alfalfa for maintenance and hindgut. Sensitivity to grooming and general crabbiness significantly reduced.
• Horse has a tendency to bear down or “fall out” with the left shoulder.
• Saddle appears to fit well, but is perhaps a bit snugger in the front right than left.
• When riding her, I feel my left hip seems to dip down more than the right.
• Horse is agitated when putting on or removing saddle, though not girthing
• Horse is also cranky when mounting and dismounting, dropping stirrups, and in transitions - where she pins ears and hollows her back. Occasionally swings head around to make “bitey” faces when all of this is done.
• Horse has big shoulders for her build, seems the left is larger.
• I can see all the way through channel, but wondering if it might not be wide enough…

Not sure what I’m looking for here besides musing aloud, but thinking I should either try to shim and correct the possible shift, then get a saddle fitter out after she’s been in work a bit longer, or maybe try a bodyworker to help with crookedness? Thoughts?

Pics in link below.

https://ibb.co/album/hHBKAa

[Scribbler]

If the saddle is shifting when you ride, or is drifting on the back, then the saddle doesn’t fit. I would confer with a trusted independent saddle fitter, and get the flocking tweaked. If it isn’t an overall saddle fit issue.

Edited to add, just looked at the photos and yeah 1675 is way crooked, don’t ride in that. The other photos don’t communicate much to me, but that is sitting on the spinal process.

When I had a problem with side to side movement, it meant the horse’s back had grown too flat and wide for the saddle tree and I got a new saddle. When I had a problem with a different saddle tilting one direction at the withers it meant that the flocking was shot and asymmetrical and I need to get it totally restuffed.

Have you looked at the saddle upside down to see if there is any asymmetry in the panels? That’s the first place I would look. Also new flocking often needs a tweak after it settles.

Can you tell if the horse herself is asymmetric? If you don’t have an eye for that, hire a good massage person. Or have horse stand perfectly square facing away from you and get up on a chair or trunk hood at a distance and sight down the backbone paying attention to the shoulder and wither width. Take some photos you can blow up to see.

If you think the horse has lost muscle overall you can fill up with a sheepskin pad.

I would get the advice of a good saddle fitter before going to a shim.

I don’t shim my personal saddles because I get them fitted to my horse, but I have been playing with shims on my saddle fitters advice for an older loan horse that has a slightly sunken back and will probably bridge in any saddle.

If you want to play with different shim options, get some foam product and duct tape to your saddle pad in different configurations until you find out if that will solve the problem and you can go invest in a proper shim pad.

[RedHorses]

I have a horse with a low right shoulder. When he’s standing still. In action, after much training and building strength and fitness, he carries the saddle level. There was a time I did have to add a little padding over the right shoulder, and for a while I had to use the padding after periods of no work (injury). He did eventually get to the point where his default movement is the level carriage and even after time off no longer needs that padding.

The theory that prompted the padding attempt was that the saddle drops on to the low shoulder, tipping more weight on to it, and as the horse is uncomfortable he pulls his shoulder lower to avoid it - which obviously just makes the drop, weight shift, discomfort worse. The padding allowed the saddle (and weight) to stay level and gave me the chance to train him to lift his shoulders and work more off his hind end. Whether the actual mechanics are correct or not doesn’t matter as the result was positive.

So… fold up a hand towel and try shimming for a ride.

[Thoro]

Thank you both for the advice. I contacted a couple fitters today, but the very good one is booking into September now! Will have to find another A bodyworker would probably be good too, since I’m second guessing myself on the asymmetry. The saddle itself looks fine.

I tried the towel as a temporary shim and it did seem to help. The spine of my pad was clear of any rubs, so that’s something.

[Bristol_Bay]

Kissing spine is very common in TBs. Before spending an arm and a leg, have your vet out to X-ray the back just to rule it out.

[Thoro]

@Bristol Bay

Kissing spine is very common in TBs. Before spending an arm and a leg, have your vet out to X-ray the back just to rule it out.

We did that last year and luckily the spine is fine!
Thanks.

[BeeHoney]

I can’t really tell too much from your pictures, but I will say a few things that may or may not apply–just ideas. First of all, are you riding evenly? For example, even if you are typically an even rider, if you are having to work harder for whatever reason one direction over the other, that can be a source of uneven saddle movements. Secondly, people love these wool flocked saddles but I’m just gonna be really blunt here–the flocking can very easily settle or pack unevenly. It is not an “exact” material. I also have had situations where after flocking was adjusted there were a lot of changes in fit over the course of a few months due to packing of flocking. Not saying that’s the case here, but, if there is some slightly uneven flocking through the middle or back of the panel, that could contribute to some twisting type fit issues.

My personal preference when dealing with uneven horses is to get the saddle set up with a memory foam half pad. Memory foam is very nice for compensating for an uneven horse–without creating any pressure points. I personally would worry in most cases (barring a very visibly uneven horse) that I would create more problems by trying to create some custom shim. Of course, this generally does not work well on a wider/fatter horse or a horse with a low wither where the saddle might be likely to slip anyway.

[Equestrianette]

My horse is the SAME as yours. Right down to the color. Same symptoms to the T. Saddle didn’t fit. Now I have new saddles. Your saddle looks like it’s bridging too. All signs point to poor saddle fit.