Saddle fitting!

[khorrapony]

(Not sure if this is in the right place!)

I recently purchased a 14 y/o Arabian mare. She’s been sitting having babies for the past few years of her life, and therefore is largely lacking a top line, and the ability for me to fit a saddle to her! It’s just about driving me insane on my small budget.

I purchased a medium Kincade dressage saddle- way too wide.

Used HDR close contcact- no wither clearance, too wide.

Collegiate dressage, too wide.

Stubben junp saddle? Way too wide, though I believe it was stamped a mw. At this point I was just trying everything available to me.

Regency dressage saddle. You guessed it, too wide. 88% sure this saddle was a MN.

Various collegiate close contact saddles. Too wide.

Bates dressage saddle. Seemingly the best fit, marginally too wide. Thick panels and high tree head gave her plenty of clearance. Pony was happy with this one.

Ha. Aha. $1500 saddle, of course.

I’m leery of purchasing online after buying the HDR. What id REALLY like would be an interchangeable gullet system so I can adjust the saddle as she develops a top line. Wintec, thorowgood, bates…

Anybody has experience with these brands? I have (stretched) a $500 budget. Realistically id like to stay under 400. In that price range, I can definitely get a wintec or thorowgood. You can find the odd used bates floating around for 500 every now and then. Is leather worth the money? I’ve never ridden in a synthetic saddle.

The thorowgood high wither has caught my interest with the front gusset. I’ve had trouble getting adequate wither clearance on her.

I wanted to show her wither tracings/some side shots of her to get some suggestions, but I can’t seem to figure out how to attach photos? Help is appreciated…

[VAevent]

Call the Middleburg Tack Exchange. If you can’t get to the shop, they can ship saddles to you. Very helpful folks.

[jn4jenny]

You can’t “attach” pictures here unless you’re a premium member, but you can cruise over to a site like TinyPic or Imgur or Photobucket and upload them there. Then, paste the link for the photos into your post. Pictures would certainly help the general COTH rabble understand your situation.

Meanwhile, exactly which Bates were you sitting in? A Bates Isabell? A Bates Innova? An old-style Bates Caprilli Dressage? If in doubt, get on Google Images and find us a similar picture.

Nothing wrong with synthetic dressage saddles, IMO. Many people ride in them very happily. They’re easy care, legal to show in, and a reasonable value for what they’re offering. But as usual, they’re only as good as the fit for horse and rider. In fact, the BIG thing to watch out for in that price range = Wintec/Bates saddles that are older and showing their age. Check the integrity of the tree points to which the gullets are screwed, and check the panels carefully for signs that a CAIR panel has gone flat or gotten bunchy because it’s shifted inside the panel. It really depends on the saddle’s age, how well it’s been cared for, and how hard it was ridden. (To be fair, I could make similar comments about leather saddles.)

The thorowgood high wither has caught my interest with the front gusset. I’ve had trouble getting adequate wither clearance on her.

On a $500 budget, finding a used Thorowgood High Wither–even the cheapest model, the T4–is going to be a real chore. It’s possible, but you’d have to get very lucky, strike while the iron is hot, and probably not get a trial period.

In a perfect world, we’d all like to have sufficient gussets support built right into our saddle. But on your budget, consider the merits of investing in a shimmable correction pad. When you add shims to the front of the pad–judiciously, and with care–you can simulate the shape of a built-in, deep-front panel like the one on the Thorowgood High Wither models. Since the padding will be in your correction pad, you’ll have much more flexibility to add/subtract padding over time. And yes, even if you have an adjustable gullet, that can be a huge asset. For someone on your budget, the ECP cotton correction half pad is a good choice.
https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/equine-comfort-products-cotton-correction-half-pad-11075

[grayci]

Oh man do I know your pain, though I had issues with having a big wide horse with highish, long withers.

For leather, look into an OLD Kieffer or Passier. Kieffer might be difficult to find in narrow (their standard is a ‘medium’ that can be adjusted up or down a bit by a fitter), and IIRC Passiers tend to run narrow. Both have high somewhat cut-back pommels, so work well with different height/length withers. They can be gotten for as little as $200 (paid that for both of mine, though they’re a bit beaten up – sound to ride in though)

For synthetic, if you can get ahold of a Tekna S to try on, try that! Similar cut-back pommel to Kieffer and Passier with the added bonus of a changeable gullet. The channel might actually be too wide though – they’re seriously wide through the channel. The great part about them is they’re a synthetic that can be hosed off to clean, but look like leather even up close. They’re also super comfy, unlike some have found the others listed above (though I find my Kieffer very comfy).

Never have gotten to try any of the new Thorowgoods with the changeable gullet, but I had an old, narrow yet fat with highish withers Arabian mare who ONLY fit a specific old-style Thorowgood dressage. Got it for $100 and loved the heck out of that thing. Was so sad it was too narrow for my current horse.

Definitely invest in the ECP pad linked above as well! Be warned though: it’s really too short for an 18" saddle, if you go in that.

[khorrapony]

[QUOTE=jn4jenny;8266024]
On a $500 budget, finding a used Thorowgood High Wither–even the cheapest model, the T4–is going to be a real chore. It’s possible, but you’d have to get very lucky, strike while the iron is hot, and probably not get a trial period.

In a perfect world, we’d all like to have sufficient gussets support built right into our saddle. But on your budget, consider the merits of investing in a shimmable correction pad. When you add shims to the front of the pad–judiciously, and with care–you can simulate the shape of a built-in, deep-front panel like the one on the Thorowgood High Wither models. Since the padding will be in your correction pad, you’ll have much more flexibility to add/subtract padding over time. And yes, even if you have an adjustable gullet, that can be a huge asset. For someone on your budget, the ECP cotton correction half pad is a good choice.
https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/equine-comfort-products-cotton-correction-half-pad-11075[/QUOTE]

http://s1025.photobucket.com/user/Jpondell/Mobile%20Uploads/story

Tell me if the link works? The wither tracings are from top to bottom: three fingers behind shoulder blade, lowest point of back, and top line.

It’s a bates Isabel with CAIR.

[khorrapony]

[QUOTE=grayci;8266121]
Oh man do I know your pain, though I had issues with having a big wide horse with highish, long withers.

For leather, look into an OLD Kieffer or Passier. Kieffer might be difficult to find in narrow (their standard is a ‘medium’ that can be adjusted up or down a bit by a fitter), and IIRC Passiers tend to run narrow. Both have high somewhat cut-back pommels, so work well with different height/length withers. They can be gotten for as little as $200 (paid that for both of mine, though they’re a bit beaten up – sound to ride in though)

For synthetic, if you can get ahold of a Tekna S to try on, try that! Similar cut-back pommel to Kieffer and Passier with the added bonus of a changeable gullet. The channel might actually be too wide though – they’re seriously wide through the channel. The great part about them is they’re a synthetic that can be hosed off to clean, but look like leather even up close. They’re also super comfy, unlike some have found the others listed above (though I find my Kieffer very comfy).

Never have gotten to try any of the new Thorowgoods with the changeable gullet, but I had an old, narrow yet fat with highish withers Arabian mare who ONLY fit a specific old-style Thorowgood dressage. Got it for $100 and loved the heck out of that thing. Was so sad it was too narrow for my current horse.

Definitely invest in the ECP pad linked above as well! Be warned though: it’s really too short for an 18" saddle, if you go in that.[/QUOTE]

No worries, I can easily ride in a 15 inch saddle

[DJohn]

Try a Thorowgood!

I honestly doubt that you will need a “hi-wither” model though. Most of their saddles are built with a cut-away wither anyways. My TBx is short-backed and moderately withered and he goes in the regular wither with tons of room to spare. I am in the process of ordering a T4 COMPACT GP as he also has a short back to go with his moderate wither.

I love Thorowgood And if you’re one of those people that’s picky about Synthetics, their leather brand is Kent & Masters I believe.

[khorrapony]

[QUOTE=DJohn;8266680]
Try a Thorowgood!

I honestly doubt that you will need a “hi-wither” model though. Most of their saddles are built with a cut-away wither anyways. My TBx is short-backed and moderately withered and he goes in the regular wither with tons of room to spare. I am in the process of ordering a T4 COMPACT GP as he also has a short back to go with his moderate wither.

I love Thorowgood And if you’re one of those people that’s picky about Synthetics, their leather brand is Kent & Masters I believe.[/QUOTE]

Thanks! Good to know could you possibly take a look at her confo shot and tell me how she compares to your TB?

[Remsmom]

Just another vote for the Thorowgood! I tried a high wither T4 on my shark-finned, narrow backed, impossible to fit gelding with amazing results. I had a hard time finding anyone that carried anything BUT the compact version in the US, but the compact actually seemed to fit is average lengthed back quite nicely.

Ordered a seat size too large the first time around so exchanging for a smaller size now. Dover carries them.

[soloudinhere]

I own two thorowgoods but with the new price point creeping up to 900-1000 I don’t think you’ll find one of the newer ones for $500. Anything is possible, I suppose, but that budget is really tight.

I can’t see the tracings at work, but just in general, I don’t see a lot of horses who would actually fit into a narrow tree. They exist, but Arabian would not be the breed I think of when I think of a narrow tree horse.

[The_Blood_Bay_Mare]

[QUOTE=soloudinhere;8267784]
I own two thorowgoods but with the new price point creeping up to 900-1000 I don’t think you’ll find one of the newer ones for $500. Anything is possible, I suppose, but that budget is really tight.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn’t give up on finding one cheap. Sometimes you get lucky and people don’t know what they have, or there’s something cosmetically wrong with the saddle that does not impact its function. I ended up getting a 2009 T6 High Wither for $300 because of some unattractive wear on the synthetic part of the flaps. Saddle fitter said there’s not a thing wrong with it otherwise, and it fits my tricky horse perfectly.

ETA: Tricky horse is a TB with a shark fin wither, structurally massive shoulder, and short back. Anything narrower than a medium pinched and restricted shoulder movement, but finding something with a wide enough tree and enough wither clearance was a nightmare. I’ve never found a saddle that fits her better than this T6. Medium gullet plate is in now, and the MW came with it so I’d bet I’ll be swapping it out in a few months when she builds some muscle. I’ll try to find a photo of Princess Mare’s back for context.

[soloudinhere]

[QUOTE=The Blood Bay Mare;8267854]
I wouldn’t give up on finding one cheap. Sometimes you get lucky and people don’t know what they have, or there’s something cosmetically wrong with the saddle that does not impact its function. I ended up getting a 2009 T6 High Wither for $300 because of some unattractive wear on the synthetic part of the flaps. Saddle fitter said there’s not a thing wrong with it otherwise, and it fits my tricky horse perfectly.

ETA: Tricky horse is a TB with a shark fin wither, structurally massive shoulder, and short back. Anything narrower than a medium pinched and restricted shoulder movement, but finding something with a wide enough tree and enough wither clearance was a nightmare. I’ve never found a saddle that fits her better than this T6. Medium gullet plate is in now, and the MW came with it so I’d bet I’ll be swapping it out in a few months when she builds some muscle. I’ll try to find a photo of Princess Mare’s back for context.[/QUOTE]

In sythetic saddles, 6 years is pretty old, and the trees and panels have changed a couple times in the thorowgood lineup since then, so what you were getting might be very different from what someone with a 2015 model might have. I’d expect to pay $300 for a 6 year old synthetic saddle. I wouldn’t expect to pay $300 for one of the new ones with the new tree and surface blocks, for example.

[khorrapony]

Nope, I’ve found the trick to getting cheap thorowgoods. You’ve gotta get em shipped from the UK even with international shipping you get them worlds cheaper than buying local.

[Remsmom]

[QUOTE=khorrapony;8269330]
Nope, I’ve found the trick to getting cheap thorowgoods. You’ve gotta get em shipped from the UK even with international shipping you get them worlds cheaper than buying local.[/QUOTE]

Really? I’m just about to order a T4 now from Dover but would love to hear which websites you’ve discovered! I’d like the T8 but it’s a bit expensive and hard to find here. Even at Dover, I have to order it and wait 10 weeks…