So, I’ve spent the entire 2+ years I’ve owned my horse searching for a saddle that will fit her (then there’s me, but that can be secondary.) Her conformation doesn’t have “issues” as far as radical asymmetry, an injury, shark fin withers, etc. Oh no, she’s pretty standard for what she is… it just seems… saddles are NOT made for this horse. Here’s the deal, she has broad, somewhat flat (but not totally), muscular withers. She has broad prominent shoulders that come WAY back when she’s working. Shoulder pinching from panels is a common problem I have with her. Then she has a flat, broad back. Just having a “wide tree” isn’t good enough because it doesn’t always have enough room for the shoulder. I’ve tried most French brands at this point (we’re talking about 7-8 demos) and some English. Stubben is flat out. Voltaire “kind of” fit her but I didn’t like the quality of the saddles. I tried a Reactor Panel, propped me way too far off her flat back. I am looking for closer contact, spine, wither, and shoulder room, and not to sit in a chair seat. I have long skinny femurs so need something rather forward in the flap but that’s easier to find in more saddles than a saddle to fit the mare. Has anyone tried WOW, Black Country, or any of these more alternative brands? I say alternative in that they’re not the traditional CWD, Dev, etc. I’m seriously open at this point, I sold my Voltaire and keep canceling shows and clinics because I"m literally riding BAREBACK. Thanks a million! This girl is desperate for a saddle!
My County Eventer XW fits my wide, Irish Draught very well. I bought it as a demo, so it was discounted substantially.
Do you have a really good independent saddle fitter to work with? Would they be willing to work with Patrick Saddlery in England? I was lucky and even though I am in the US I had him personally fit my 2 saddles. His are fully custom so not cheap but then again neither are CWD. I never rode in either of my saddles before I bought them not even a trial one. Because nothing off the rack comes close to fitting my horse. My horse had different issues than yours in that he has shark fins for withers, is curvy front to back, has hollows. However he has a really broad flat back behind his withers and has big shoulders that really rotate back. The shoulders that really rotate back is what made me think that you going with Patrick might be a good fit. My local saddle fitter made sure she showed him how much his shoulder really rotates up.
We were at wits end trying to fit him. Stubben returned my deposit since they could not make a custom for him that they thought would work. My local fitter went around the big trade show in PA with pictures of my horses back and asked every saddler there “Can you fit difficult horses?” Oh, Yes. Hmmmm… not him see Patrick, see Patrick, see Patrick. Hey Patrick can you fit this horse? Yup. And he did. He did a funky custom drop panel in the front that allows his shoulder to rotate up.
I don’t know if he is worth a try since you won’t have him doing the fitting and I did. But it may be worth a try.
My first saddle was a regular 2 flap and my 2nd is a monoflap.
His quality is lovely. He does not have a great webpage but if you dig through his Facebook page he has pictures of a number of his saddles. He does tend to do more dressage but both of mine were jump saddles. Of course since it is an English brand they are wool flocked. Lots of options for leather types and colors and welting and serge panels.
The second saddle that he made for me did not fit when I got it. It wasn’t close. I sent him pictures. He told me send it back and had it back to me is less than 3 weeks. He took the price of the return shipping off the price of the saddle. I don’t mind when people make mistakes if they stand behind their product and he did. I could tell that he was very upset that it went out wrong. I never did find out why it was so far off. I am guessing somebody picked up the wrong template. In the end it is a lovely, lovely saddle that fits my horse and I beautifully. He stands behind his work.
You might consider contacting Smith Worthington. A few months ago, a COTHer said SW had fit a particular CC saddle to her wide-backed horse, and she was very pleased with the result. I believe it was this model, but am not 100% sure: https://www.smithworthington.com/ind…d=160&mobile=0.
A couple of others you might try are Kent and Masters (changeable gullets with cob-type models) and Passier (the models with a cutback pommel and PS Baum tree are very forgiving for long wide shoulders). My Welsh/QH mare with the same type of shoulders and flat back fits an older Passier with the PS Baum tree very nicely.
My big shouldered TB is in a Black Country with MW tree. Fits him great and has great balance for me. Definitely worth a look. I have the Wexford but Richochet would work too.
I also think a hoop tree sounds like it would be worth trying. There are a few companies that offer them including Black Country, Duett and others already listed. There are others and many, but not all, can be made with a forward flap.
Thanks everyone I had heard about SW possibly in a hunt magazine, I forget. I currently have an unlikely saddle (Bates) on trial from Dover which I like surprisingly well. But, I am not 100% sure I want to commit yet… and it’s tricky with the trees. Her back is definitely hoop tree shaped yet some of those are too round. Those of you with horses like this know what I mean, and you almost need a flare in the front by the shoulder. But, I am encouraged, thank you!
Did you have your saddle custom made and if so, what was that process like? Thanks!
Have you tried an Albion? Worked really well for my draft cross I had with a similar build.
No, the saddle wasn’t custom made. It was an extra wide with a semi-hoop tree, that they custom adjusted to my horse’s tracings. The site has very elaborate instructions on how to draw tracings:
https://www.smithworthington.com/con…se2013web1.pdf
They also wanted pictures of the horse’s back and of the horse from the side.
It was a little easier for me since their shop is in Hartford which is fairly close to me. I went there, took 3 saddles back with me, rode in them for 10 days, returned two out of the three, and tried a fourth for another week or so. Then I decided which of the saddles I wanted, and they fine-tuned the adjustment based on photos of the saddle on my horse. For the final adjustments to the tree and to the flocking I believe it was an additional $80 (if I remember correctly). FWIW, the saddle that the fitter on staff initially pulled out for me to try was ultimately the saddle I bought, even though I tried other saddles.
It was a very positive experience.
(They also have a guide to fitting the saddle to the rider, which is worth looking at:
https://www.smithworthington.com/images/images/fit-to-rider.pdf )
I had a problem with a BC hoop tree on a mare with a big shoulder that rotates waaaay back when she canters – the only two times she has bucked were in that saddle, and the second incident broke my knee. 
The saddle had been checked for fit over and over again, and static fit – standing still, every fitter said it was great. The only way we knew the attitude under saddle was saddle related was trial and error. The fitter finally said “in my professional opinion, this fits, but she hates it, so there you go.”
I actually have a dressage saddle that was made to fit my wide, wide shouldered, super flat back QH event horse that is an Albion SLK. My guy had broken the growth plates in one shoulder, so one side was bigger than the other, and any saddle had to clear both. I ended up with an ExW in that saddle (that particular saddle, the trees run one size small, so it is comparable to a W in other trees), and went with the high head in that construction, because it gave me a place to actually sit. He couldn’t do a hoop tree either, but the points on the tree in the SLK did not impinge his shoulders.
It sits in my barn now, gathering dust, as no one else has a horse built quite like him, and he’s retired. Good luck shopping – Smith Worthington is great and accommodating, but what they sent me didn’t fit him either. Sigh.
Have you tried Countys? I have a flatter backed TB with broad shoulders and the County Solution jump saddles fit him very well.
Can you post pictures and tracings? The Harry Dabbs Future panel is brilliant on prominent shoulders, but I wouldn’t know what tree to suggest without more information.
If you aren’t already, I’d recommend working with an independent saddle fitter. Since they don’t work for a specific brand, they have way more options to find a perfect fit for your horse (not to mention that they typically have more training).
Hastilow/Thorowgood/Kent and Masters saddles might be worth a look. They are all built on the same tree, which has an adjustable gullet. It sounds like your horse is built similarly to my mare, and the gullet shape on my Hastilow jump saddle and Thorowgood dressage saddle have worked very well for her. A lot of other adjustable saddles are “pinched” in, but this is a straight bar. This blog post has a good description: http://saddlefitter.blogspot.com/201…s-details.html
I have not read the entire thread but if you don’t mind getting a saddle that is not top of the line, the horse you describe is mine also. My daughter has a Kent and Masters that fits him extremely well. It has a changeable gullet and the panels are wool flocked on the other hand if you want to get a top of the line saddle call David Stackhouse. If you are going to spend the money make it purely custom to you and your horse. I can also recommend The Refined Equine for fitting. She does not represent any company and can help you find one that fits. Good luck and let us know how you make out
My horse has a wide flat back, too. Medium withers but long. Our big challenge is shoulder freedom. I also was looking for a close feel. Some fitters look at her and automatically think hoop tree but she’s really not. We happily ended up with a MW Black Country with a standard tree.
I agree, I’ve tried Hoop treed saddles and those really aren’t the fit for her either. A lot of people have tried (saddle folks) telling me my saddle is too far forward but I had one with a 2AA flap so it’s deceiving. While the FLAP may have extended pretty far forward, the tree points were behind the scapula. Then what is also interesting is the discrepancy in what even saddle fitters say. I’ve worked with a few now and none say the same thing so I become doubtful of their input too. I know if a saddle rocks front to back, side to side, I know if it slides or bounces behind. I know when it pinches her, I can see/feel it and she tells me. I also know when it affects my balance or doesn’t. Amazing how many people in the industry will try to tell you one thing and you’re saying no, the exact opposite is happening. I’ve even had semi custom saddles made from tracings and photos and not fit even a little bit. It’s SO frustrating .What’s odd is right now I am trying out a Bates Elevation. From my understanding it’s not made in particular for this type of horse and is far less $$ than the others I was using/owned/trying. It has an adjustable gullet which is great but we all know that does not affect the rest of the fit, only the very front. It might be the panels with air which trust me I resisted as a fad/weird idea, but the panels behind are pretty flat and I’m getting no resistance from my mare. In fact her canter is improving in the last 5 days. I have no idea why this is working well but I"m going to try their mono flap Advanta before I decide… just FYI… for others in this boat. I wouldn’t necessarily have looked at this!
We have a huge shouldered gelding (TB) who also is in a Black Country MW - Vinici. His back is curvy though.
It’s hard to give a meaningful suggestion because “flat backed” can mean so many things… but I have a gelding that has a fairly flat, wide back who is in a Stubben Zaria MN… You would think he was at least a W tree, because he is a really big gelding… but he has tall, long withers and wide shoulders and a flat saddle area. He would be a M in other brands (and was in a M tree in my Ainsley and Kieffer).
I have a similar shaped horse and Prestige seemed to fit the best. For dressage a Passier was the right fit.
So, let’s see if this works. The tracings are taken from A: approx 2" behind scapula, standing, B: approx 3" behind that, and C: up and over back at last rib. Mind you it was blowing 30mph outside so she wasn’t standing perfectly square but fairly close, LOL!
