Saddle pad (not saddle) slipping - recommendations?

[Pocket_Pony]

This is a cross-post from the Western forum.

I’m having problems with saddle pad slippage under Mac’s new saddle. I’ve got a Toklat wool pad that is 1/2" - it slips. I just got a new Saddleright pad thinking that would help, but it doesn’t. Mac seems to love the saddle (a Crestridge - he’s very forward and light moves out more than with any other saddle) and this problem happened with his last saddle and would happen with my english pads if it weren’t for the billet loops.

So I’m thinking/wondering if the wool felt pad material isn’t a good fit for the shape of his back AND/OR if I need a thicker pad OR if I need a pad made out of different material?

The saddle may be a bit wide, but he really seems to like it so I’m thinking/hoping there must be a padding option…the saddle itself doesn’t slip back, it is just the pad. Do I start with a 3/4" or 1" or ???

I’m looking at Tacky Too, someone recommended a Ricotti, others have recommended a 5-Star, Won, and then there are a million on Action Rider Tack and Riding Warehouse (Long Riders) . . . ack, the confusion is crippling!!!

[chicamux]

Or, you can buy a pair of shoe laces or a length of cording (fabric store) and hand sew them to each side of the saddle pad. Saddle your horse with the pad inthe perfect place. Use a marker or pencil and mark the pad directly in front of the D rings onthe front of the saddle. If it has no D rings then the rigging rings can be used. Pull the tack off and grab a heavy needle and heavy thread. Fold each cord in half and stitch them to the marks on the pad. Now you can tie the pad to the saddle and it will stay in place.

Chicamuxen

[Emilia]

Pocket Pony, this is my recent experience, but I have an English saddle:

I had the saddle fitted and it worked great. Horse was on a diet at the time of fitting, so he has lost more pounds since then.

Suddenly, thin cotton pad started slipping back during ride.

I researched and found out, most horse people on various forums would say it was the saddle fit.

I did not want to believe it, but decided to call our fitter and he confirmed, that this was often a sign of a saddle that did not fit correctly (fitting on the wider side). In his first opinion, the wool in the front of the saddle settled, but when I told him, our horse lost quite a few pounds, he encouraged me to try thicker saddle pad.

I put a sheepskin pad on and the problem has been solved so I can wait for the fitter to come in spring, as planned (and not earlier = more $$).

That said, I also used to lease a TB with a peculiar conformation and, for him, I needed a Barnsby grip pad with mesh-like bottom to keep any saddle on.

In your case, since you mentioned that saddle might be little wide, I would first try a thicker pad, such as 5Star or so.

Good luck with finding the solution.

[Pocket_Pony]

Yeah, I know the saddle fits wide . . . funny thing is, that’s how this horse likes it and he moves well in it! I am planning on trying a thicker pad, just don’t even know where to start - wool felt vs. fluffy wool? Tacky pad vs. tacky liner? 3/4" or 1"? ARGH! How do I know and find the right one without spending a fortune?!

[Kitt]

Pad slip is a sure sign that something is amiss with the way your saddle is fitting. I would recommend having a good western fitter come out and evaluate it; you’ll save a lot of time, money and frustration in the long run.

[Emilia]

Typically, when you have a horse with peculiar conformation, like the TB I mentioned, you would already know by now and were using grip pads (tacky bottom).

You said, you had a new saddle, not the horse, so if you never had that problem before, it is most likely wider saddle.

I really like 5Star pads. They won’t compress, they don’t slip and I have never seen a horse, who would not appreciate that kind of material on his back (100% wool).

I use sheepskin on my English saddle, because that is what I have and it is also a great material. I am saving $$ to get English 5Star though. I own the western one, 7/8, I believe.

They do sell them in different thicknesses, however, and they are pricey. With proper care, they last a long time. The thicknesses are 1/2, 3/4, 7/8, and 1 inch.

I do not like tacky bottom pads, but acknowledge, sometimes there is no other way.

I also do not like artificial fleece. IMO, it doesn’t wick the sweat like a wool does.

If I were you, I would measure the thickness of the pads that do not work and go up from there.

Is there any chance, you could borrow a couple of pads of different thicknesses from people and play around for a day or so? If you put a piece of a thin cloth underneath, it will not alter your measurements and it will protect your horse as well as the pad.

I will say, that if you need more than a full inch thick pad, maybe, the saddle is just too wide and it will be unstable, no matter what (with all the material underneath).

Of course, if you can get a good saddle fitter to come out, that would be the best, because it could also be rigging and such.

Again, good luck in your pad adventure- these tack tune-ups can get really frustrating.

[pook]

TheAlpacaHorse.com may be the solution you are looking for !

[Pocket_Pony]

My cinch is alpaca - very soft and comfortable for Mac and so far it doesn’t seem to get dirty (although it does match his coloring - dun - almost exactly!).

Have you used one? Why do you recommend it?

[Guilherme]

If the pad is slipping because the saddle does not fit correctly then tying it down with lacing or using “anti-slip” material or some other “fix” is putting a band-aid on a compound fracture.

Going to a thicker pad might be a viable solution but you have to watch out for the “Princess and the Pea” problem.

Saddles don’t so much “fit” a horse’s back as they “accommodate” the back. The back is a constantly changing environment as the horse changes shape as it moves. Some saddles are engineered to take this into account (high end saddles like Stubben do this). Low end saddles generally do not. The middle is something of a crap shoot.

Sadly, the OP’s saddle is a “mis-fit” and that is causing (or allowing) pad slippage.

G.

[mjs8]

I agree that this is likely due to saddle fit. A saddle fitter I know says “What do you do if your shoes are too big? Do you just put on more socks until the shoes aren’t as sloppy?” love that analogy!
I’d start with an appt with a fitter and go from there - they may recommend a great pad that will fit your horse’s specific needs. Good luck! =)

[Pocket_Pony]

@Guilherme;7356966

Saddles don’t so much “fit” a horse’s back as they “accommodate” the back. The back is a constantly changing environment as the horse changes shape as it moves. Some saddles are engineered to take this into account (high end saddles like Stubben do this). Low end saddles generally do not. The middle is something of a crap shoot.

I agree about a saddle “accommodating” a back. I’m curious how Stubben’s (which I don’t consider to be a high-end saddle) saddles are engineered for this?

mjs8, I’m torn about that shoe/sock analogy. If I take it further, then I would look at shoes that “fit” my feet very well when I try them on, shoes that “fit like a glove” when I try them on, if you will. Those are shoes I actually don’t want to spend a lot of time in - they’re not comfortable for more than a quick trip to town or going out to dinner or something - I don’t like spending all day in them for various reasons. Then I think about my shoes that fit pretty well but are maybe a bit wide at the toe (like running shoes). Those are pretty comfortable for longer days on my feet. I also have shoes that fit a bit bigger and those don’t cause any problems, either, as long as I wear the right socks. So while I understand the analogy of big shoes/thick socks, it doesn’t entirely hold up for me based on my own experience of having a range of shoes to choose from.

Anyway, I do have a friend who is letting me borrow her 5-Star pad so I’m going out to ride in it this morning to see how it works. Fingers crossed!

[Pocket_Pony]

Oh, and ps I’m working with a saddle fitter and the saddler - just looking for more input on people’s experiences with various pads.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7358617]
I agree about a saddle “accommodating” a back. I’m curious how Stubben’s (which I don’t consider to be a high-end saddle) saddles are engineered for this?

mjs8, I’m torn about that shoe/sock analogy. If I take it further, then I would look at shoes that “fit” my feet very well when I try them on, shoes that “fit like a glove” when I try them on, if you will. Those are shoes I actually don’t want to spend a lot of time in - they’re not comfortable for more than a quick trip to town or going out to dinner or something - I don’t like spending all day in them for various reasons. Then I think about my shoes that fit pretty well but are maybe a bit wide at the toe (like running shoes). Those are pretty comfortable for longer days on my feet. I also have shoes that fit a bit bigger and those don’t cause any problems, either, as long as I wear the right socks. So while I understand the analogy of big shoes/thick socks, it doesn’t entirely hold up for me based on my own experience of having a range of shoes to choose from.

Anyway, I do have a friend who is letting me borrow her 5-Star pad so I’m going out to ride in it this morning to see how it works. Fingers crossed![/QUOTE]

I guess we have a different definition of “high end”!!!

Not being a tree designer I don’t know what “magic” they use. I only know that my wife and I both ride Stubbens and they fit our Marchadors quite well. While the size/conformation of her mare and mine are modestly different we can swap saddles/horses and not show any negative consequences.

THE most commonly sold piece of horse equipment in the U.S. is the saddle pad. That probably says a bunch about saddle fit across the U.S. equine population (and probably not much of it complementary).

Riders must understand that a saddle that fits perfectly while the horse stands square will, by definition, be less than perfect when movement starts. Now they have to understand the “accommodation factor.” The pad is critical to effective fit but is much less a “fit modifier” than a “movement accommodater.” The First Principle is ensuring the saddle is appropriate to the horse’s conformation and task; the Second Principle is ensuring that the padding system effectively works to distribute load and permit the accomplishment of the task at hand.

If the pad is slipping it’s NOT doing its job. Nine times out of ten the reason is that the saddle is inappropriate to the horse. There is that 10th time, but I’m more inclined to work the 90% than the 10%.

G.

[Pocket_Pony]

G, what are Marchadors?

I rode in my friend’s 5-Star pad today and it was really good - it is a 3/4", not an 1" like she thought. Comfortable for Mac, no rolling of the saddle. I think the problem I’m having is where I expect the pad to be on his back. In my english saddles, I put the pad more forward because the placement of the girth/billet straps dictates that the pad should be put there (so I end up with a few inches of saddle pad in front of the flap of my dressage saddle, for example). But in the western saddle, I’m putting the pad too far forward and so it is sliding back to where it naturally wants to sit with the shape and the wither cutout. It doesn’t go out the back so that I completely lose it, it just slides back and then settles into its “spot”. So I think I can panic a little bit less (although I am one to be paranoid about anything and everything related to my horse’s comfort and well-being). I’ve tried so so so so many saddles on Mac and he actually seems to like this one the best (based on a lot of little observations like tacking up, going up and down hills, quality of transitions, desire/degree of going-forward-ness) so I’m thinking I just need to fine-tune all the little particulars like padding and stirrups for me so my knees don’t hurt.

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone, I think I’m on the right track!

[Pocket_Pony]

@Guilherme;7358839

Riders must understand that a saddle that fits perfectly while the horse stands square will, by definition, be less than perfect when movement starts. Now they have to understand the “accommodation factor.” The pad is critical to effective fit but is much less a “fit modifier” than a “movement accommodater.” The First Principle is ensuring the saddle is appropriate to the horse’s conformation and task; the Second Principle is ensuring that the padding system effectively works to distribute load and permit the accomplishment of the task at hand.

Forgot to mention that yes, I totally agree - that’s where I was trying to go with my shoe analogy.

[Emilia]

Thank you, Pocket Pony, for coming back and telling us, what you have done.

I tend to wonder about these “advice” threads, so I appreciate the closure.

Hope, the pad will work out for you. :encouragement:

[BigHorseLittleHorse]

My horse also prefers his saddle a bit wider than one would expect. He is swaybacked and has high withers and long (front-to-back) shoulders. If the saddle is fit only to his withers, the points of the tree dig into his shoulders, and the saddle bridges over his swayback.

After lots of experimenting with my adjustable-gullet saddle, I realized that he actually prefers the wide gullet plate even though his wither tracing indicates he should be in a medium or medium-wide. With the saddle sitting directly on his back in the wide plate, the pommel looks too low, but when I put my pad underneath (1" Toklat Woolback), it looks perfect and he goes beautifully in it.

When my saddle had to be reflocked last winter, I explained what I had done to the saddle fitter, and she agreed that even though it’s not the traditional solution, it’s definitely working for him. She was also able to add flocking to remove the last bit of bridging.

So, if your horse is telling you he likes his saddle a little bit wider, he might be right! Good luck with your pad hunt.

[Pocket_Pony]

BHLH, thanks for your input - I’m actually looking at the Toklat Woolback pads (barrel). Which one do you have? Are they all 1" or do they come in different thicknesses? After using the 5-Star pad, I have determined that a thicker pad works for this saddle, but think I might not like the “edge” of the pad, especially at the back, if that makes sense. My friend’s pad rubbed him yesterday - granted, it was way too long for the saddle - so I think I might like something with a “softer” edge.

[BigHorseLittleHorse]

I went through a ton of different pads before the woolback. Because of my horse’s curvy back, any pad that had binding around it ended up rubbing him, either on the shoulders or loins. The woolback is great, because it has the soft edges, and the wool is naturally non slip. I have a custom one, since none of their stock patterns fit my saddle. Riding Warehouse carries tons of patterns, and they can work with Toklat to get all different kinds of options for you. They were the ones who helped me, and they liked my custom pattern so much, they’re actually selling it now

It’s this one: http://www.ridingwarehouse.com/Toklat_Woolback_Short_Endur_Saddle_Pad_Contoured/descpage-TWOSSBSP.html
but without the wear leathers, and with Velcro along the spine so I can add inserts. I believe you can get them in “triple thick” (1 1/2") as well as double thick (1").

[Pocket_Pony]

How funny! I ended up ordering this one last night after getting out my saddle and other pad and taking all sorts of measurements.

http://www.ridingwarehouse.com/Toklat_Woolback_Round_Barrel_Saddle_Pad_Contoured/descpage-TWRBSP.html

Should get it early next week and I’m hopeful it will work! I wanted a pad shaped for the withers but without the wither cutout as so many other pads have. Also I’m interested to see if/how the strap at the wear leathers works out. Fingers crossed!