Saddle Question

[Nezzy]

![]( don’t know where i should put this, so i hope i’m in the correct section.

I got a new horse yesterday, and he is very sweet. He is only 14.1hh, and I have a wintec 2000 AP. I can change the gullet. So i placed the saddle on his back today, lined it up on where to measure, marked the spot, removed the saddle and used the guage. I got a fitting in the red section so i changed the gullet out of the saddle. Got tacked up, girthed him and it felt snug.

He is new, and was not a fan of the mounting block, so i put my foot in the stirrup and when i tried to get up, the saddle slid sideways. I fixed it and tried to tighten it. It was pretty tight. Still kept trying to tip sideways. So i ended up putting my 3 step mounting block near the big one and he had to allow me on bc he was between mounting blocks.

I am concerned that the saddle is going to slide sideways if i canter or if he turns quickly on the trail. I am not asking to get a different saddle. i am asking if anyone else has had a horse with this issue? He has withers…maybe not very tall withers, but i didn’t think the saddle would slide. the girth is leather. A friend suggested neoprene, but not a fan. Have any of you had luck swithcing to neoprene?

Not a huge fan of breastplates, but i would use one if i thought it would keep the saddle in place. I feel bad that the girth was pretty tight.

I want to make him comfortable and keep myself safe at the same time.

[IMG]https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/BatHealer/Horses/SportyKidd_zps1gedap9w.jpg)

[JB]

With those withes (not enormous, but not mutton either), if a saddle slips when mounting, with the girth appropriately tightened (which doesn’t mean it’s cranked down), either the saddle doesn’t fit (most likely) or the rider is putting far, far too much weight in the stirrup for far too long, without any counter-balance.

[Nezzy]

Well it didn’t slip today except when i tried to mount from the ground. The girth was tight. Maybe not tight enough, idk. He also had been groomed with Show sheen a few days ago, but i don’t think that would do it.

[JB]

No Show Sheen, or anything with silicon, on the saddle or girth area. Ever

[Guilherme]

A saddle that does what you said it does doesn’t fit. I know know why; I’m not there. But if you’ve got to pad it up and use sticky stuff to keep from lateral sliding you have a fit problem.

War Story: One day I didn’t tighten the girth on my Stubben Scout as I should have (I’d gotten off, loosened the girth, and the forgot to re-tighten it). I mounted up at the block and started to work, including some gaiting. My wife started to laugh and took a picture. There was a full hand of slack between the girth and the belly. :o

I dismounted, fixed it, and moved on!!!

Moral of the Story: If a saddle fits it can save you embarrassment and probably the horse’s back. If it doesn’t fit, then get a new saddle or a new horse. Or be sure your medical insurance is paid up.

G.

[jawa]

I’m hesitant to use anti-slip pads and girths because I think they might keep the saddle in place, but also in a place that is not a good fit for the horse.

Is he truly a wide/red?

Maybe try several different gullets and place them on his back without a pad. Run your hand under the saddle: along the pommel, under the stirrup bar and then along his back all the way to the cantle. At each point feel for any points that are overly tight.

Then use a regular pad and see how the saddle feels. Ungirthed, girthed, and see how it works/feels mounted.

[Rackonteur]

No advice to add, just want to say he is a beautiful boy.

[BlueDrifter]

I was going to say the same thing: what a gorgeous horse!

(And I would try a smaller gullet, too.)

[akdraft77]

@Nezzy

Well it didn’t slip today except when i tried to mount from the ground. The girth was tight. Maybe not tight enough, idk. He also had been groomed with Show sheen a few days ago, but i don’t think that would do it.

Show sheen will totally do it. I ONLY use that stuff to detangle manes and tails.

[Ainsley688]

Also, if the saddle is too narrow, it can slip on a round back. That’s not usually the case unless you have a potato with no withers, lol. Maybe just throw the xw/white gullet on his back (without changing into the saddle) and see what happens. The MW as well, just so you can get an idea of the differences between them! The red one is the wide.

[Nezzy]

@jawa

I’m hesitant to use anti-slip pads and girths because I think they might keep the saddle in place, but also in a place that is not a good fit for the horse.

Is he truly a wide/red?

Maybe try several different gullets and place them on his back without a pad. Run your hand under the saddle: along the pommel, under the stirrup bar and then along his back all the way to the cantle. At each point feel for any points that are overly tight.

Then use a regular pad and see how the saddle feels. Ungirthed, girthed, and see how it works/feels mounted.

YES he is truly is a RED in the gullet. i know how to use the gauge, and it showed in the center of the red area. That is why i didn’t understand why the saddle slid sideways. Maybe he needs a WIDE saddle? I have no clue how saddles are made, so idk if only having the gullet fit would mean that the entire saddle fits him.

[Nezzy]

I will try to wash off the show sheen with a bucket of warm water and some rubbing alcohol.

[Nezzy]

@Guilherme

A saddle that does what you said it does doesn’t fit. I know know why; I’m not there. But if you’ve got to pad it up and use sticky stuff to keep from lateral sliding you have a fit problem.

War Story: One day I didn’t tighten the girth on my Stubben Scout as I should have (I’d gotten off, loosened the girth, and the forgot to re-tighten it). I mounted up at the block and started to work, including some gaiting. My wife started to laugh and took a picture. There was a full hand of slack between the girth and the belly. :o

I dismounted, fixed it, and moved on!!!

Moral of the Story: If a saddle fits it can save you embarrassment and probably the horse’s back. If it doesn’t fit, then get a new saddle or a new horse. Or be sure your medical insurance is paid up.

G.

That is what i am trying to figure out. The gullet supposedly fits, so what else could i do? If the saddle fits most horses, and i have measured the gullet correctly, which i believe i have done, In what ways could the saddle not be fitting? Do you think a Wintec WIDE would be something to try? They also have adjustable gullets.

I want to add- there are no saddle shops near me that i can try saddles or have someone come out to help.

[Toblersmom]

Gullet width isn’t everything, there’s the overall front-to back shape of the tree and the shape of the gullet. I had a Wintec AP 500 and literally tried all the gullet options. Even the “best” one never seemed quite right, and we started having canter depart issues since it really threw me forward. Finally a catastrophic fit failure when my instructor got on when he was being bad for the canter (likely from the saddle fit), and he had a baby tantrum and put his head down and hopped a teeny bit, and the whole saddle slid up onto the base of his neck. I wound up deciding I was better able to spend money than time mucking around trying different saddles, and had a fitter come out. An Adam Ellis Chloe turned out to be the best fit of what he had, by a long margin, but I’m not knowledgeable enough to pinpoint WHY (I don’t know, for instance, if the Chloe has a “hoop” tree?).

[joiedevie99]

Gullet width is one aspect of saddle fit, but certainly not the only one. The Wintec gullet gauge isn’t perfect either. The gullet plate size it gives you is a good starting point if the other aspects of the saddle fit. Many horses end up one size larger or smaller than the gauge suggests.

[JB]

@Nezzy

That is what i am trying to figure out. The gullet supposedly fits, so what else could i do?

I would be interested in a picture of the gullet itself sitting where you measured it. There is so much more to saddle fit than just width of a gullet, including the actual shape of the gullet. That doesn’t even take into account the shape of the saddle behind that.

If the saddle fits most horses, and i have measured the gullet correctly, which i believe i have done, In what ways could the saddle not be fitting? Do you think a Wintec WIDE would be something to try? They also have adjustable gullets.

That saddle doesn’t fit most horses. It only fits horses with the back shape that is pretty flat across the top, and pretty flat front to back. Your pony isn’t that flat front to back, but it all depends on where exactly the saddle sits.

If you will get a few pictures, we might be able to offer more than guessing advice:

• side view, showing the whole horse, saddled and girthed, no pad. Fill the frame up with the horse.
• closer side view of the saddle, showing all the girth, all the shoulder, back to the loin.
• 3/4 front view, showing all the shoulder and all the saddle flap - in other words, don’t zoom in on the withers.
• rear view, showing the whole back of the saddle as it sits on the back - in other words, shoot high enough to not have the butt cover up the saddle/back connection

[SonnysMom]

@Nezzy I know a really good independent saddle fitter in Zionsville, PA. I am sure she would come up your way. She carries some new and used saddles in her car. She is very popular so can be hard to get on her schedule. She is also an equine massage therapist so really understands the anatomy of the horse which I feel is beneficial to saddle fitting. I have been using her for years for both massage and saddle fitting.

Forward Motion Equine- Tara Miliziano.

[Nezzy]

Thanks for all your advice. Will try a few things and get help if i need it.

[Scribbler]

Yes, number one mistake with trying to saddle fit on your own is looking only at the gullet. You also need to look at the back to front curve and the drop angle of the panels on each side.

Get a fitter to help you find a saddle that fits better.

Your situation sounds dangerous. I would never ride in a saddle that shifted signifucantly while I was mounting.

[jawa]

@Nezzy As I understand, the length of the points of the tree can make a difference in how stable/unstable a saddle is on a wide horse.

Question- Is the Wintec foam or wool flocked?

With the gullet you feel is the correct size, place the saddle on the horse in the proper location. Be sure there is wither clearance, check the clearance of the pommel either side of the wither, feel along the panel as it fits along the shoulder ( you should have even contact along the panel top to bottom), feel under the stirrup bar while holding the flap down with mild pressure, from the stirrup bar to the cantle run your hand under the panel while holding the flap down with mild pressure. You should have an even amount of space throughout these areas. Any gaps while cause an unbalance or bridging and any tight spaces will cause pressure points. You need to do this for both sides of the saddle. Then repeat the same with the pad you plan on using.

You our have to be sure the horse is standing square during these checks. You will also need to do a dynamic fit. See how the saddle sits once you are mounted. You won’t have access to the stirrup bar area, but you can check the other areas. Check as well when you have your weight in the stirrups. This will let you know if the saddle rocks front to back and you can check its balance side to side. Have your horse walk trot and canter on a loose rein (if the saddle passes the above tests). Check the fit at each stage. Ask your horse to then do a bit more collected work to see if there is enough room for it to lift the wither. Also be sure to ask for some lateral and bending work to be sure the shoulders and back are free. I also find asking the horse to back helpful. If they don’t or won’t back straight you can have a clue that the fit is wrong. If available work on an incline/decline as well.