Saddle shopping again 😭…. Pony-built horse

[fermecinqsens]

Sorry, another saddle thread.

I have had a Custom Wolfgang Solo (with short roll for me) on my Lusitano for the past year and it is my favourite saddle I’ve ever sat in. I thought I’d found the unicorn saddle. But now he’s 5 and he changed shape and it slides forward on him.
Had the Custom rep adjust it but it still doesn’t work.

Tried a Custom Constanz, Steffan, and Gemini but they all slid forward and I didn’t like any as much as the solo anyway. Ikonic fit him great but I hated it for me. Aviar Rook 2 fit him well and I liked it too but of course it’s the most expensive!! (costs double what I paid for my horse). Rep thinks an Omni will for sure fit him but she didn’t have one for me to try.

I’m in France so there’s not many Customs (only one rep).

So, I don’t know if I try to find the needle-in-hay-stack saddle (either Omni or Rook) which, used, are still way more money than I ever imagined spending, or try to find some other brands that might work.

Horse is basically built like a pony:
very short-backed ( like 17” space).
Flat topline
Shoulders that don’t keep a saddle back
Round belly
But he’s NOT wide. He takes a medium.

I’ve got long thighs so need a short or angled block.
Rep said foam is better for my horse.

[CanteringCarrot]

Is there anyone that deals with English made saddles that would he available to you?

Black Country (was thinking their flatter tree/models, such as the Eloquence with a short panel and wither gussets), Albion, Fairfax, Kent & Masters, etc.

Have you tried any Passier or Kieffer saddles?

I’ve also had success with Amerigo saddles. Equipe has foam panels.

I don’t know why foam would be “better” than wool? I mean, if a foam saddle fits, then great, but I wouldn’t limit myself that way unless my horse had a very clear preference, or something. You might just have to broaden your search a bit brand and fitter wise.

[quietann]

What are you using for a girth? If your horse has a “forward girth groove” and a round belly, saddles will tend to slip forward when a straight girth is used. BTDT with my mare! There are shaped girths available for horses like this. I don’t know what’s available in France, though.

[atr]

I’d look at Bliss, Loxley, and maybe N2 if available to you, if I were you.

The very short bearing surface on my horse put me in a Loxley, which we are both very happy in and had the added bonus of being a more reasonable price than most quality customized saddles.

When I bought him he was in an N2, which he was fine in but I couldn’t get along with at all. Too much femur on my part, I think. But I could never find a Custom I was happy in, either (and I boarded with a rep and fitter so I had access to her entire stock.)

[fermecinqsens]

She said foam is thinner so the saddle sits closer to the horse, and on him things have a tendency to perch. Maybe because he’s small, I don’t know. So she thought foam would work better for his type.

I just thought that was interesting because I had never heard that before, and had previously ruled out all foam saddles.

I think what I’ve determined is I like a deep seat. And the saddles built for flat backs tend to have shallow seats, which I don’t like, and which make me feel like I’m perched up above him.
So what are saddles with deep seats but flat trees?

Can’t really find English brands here other than Kent and Masters which I don’t like. I have a Black Country jump saddle for the horse which I like but I previously had a Vinici for my other Lusitano and it didn’t fit me (or her).
There are Kieffers and Passiers and Amerigo and Prestige around but would have to know what style to try. Also obviously all the French brands.
There aren’t any saddle fitters who can come out with a bunch of saddles to try. I would have to find a saddle, buy it, try it, and send it back if it didn’t work.

[Bluey]

Older Stubben would fit but for the narrower part, that would depend how narrow, medium can be either.
Passier will fit if narrow enough.

[CanteringCarrot]

@fermecinqsens

She said foam is thinner so the saddle sits closer to the horse, and on him things have a tendency to perch. Maybe because he’s small, I don’t know. So she thought foam would work better for his type.

I just thought that was interesting because I had never heard that before, and had previously ruled out all foam saddles.

I think what I’ve determined is I like a deep seat. And the saddles built for flat backs tend to have shallow seats, which I don’t like, and which make me feel like I’m perched up above him.
So what are saddles with deep seats but flat trees?

Can’t really find English brands here other than Kent and Masters which I don’t like. I have a Black Country jump saddle for the horse which I like but I previously had a Vinici for my other Lusitano and it didn’t fit me (or her).
There are Kieffers and Passiers and Amerigo and Prestige around but would have to know what style to try. Also obviously all the French brands.
There aren’t any saddle fitters who can come out with a bunch of saddles to try. I would have to find a saddle, buy it, try it, and send it back if it didn’t work.

I’ve definitely found deep seated saddles for flat backs. I typically don’t like too deep of a seat though. I consider my Black Country Eloquence to be flat (my horse has a flat back) and the seat to be on the deeper side. You shouldn’t feel perched in a shallow seat or any saddle that fits correctly, really. Sometimes a new wool saddle has to settle a bit though.

Amerigo has details for each saddle on their website. There are different tree shapes and seats. Equipe (their sister brand) offers a foam panel. Amerigo panels are on the thinner side though. Loved mine on my PRE.

I do know a fitter with an extensive inventory that travels, are you close to the German border by chance?

[fermecinqsens]

No I’m in western France closer to Bordeaux.

I thought about Amerigo but I don’t like that their trees are so pinched.
Sadly there aren’t Black Countrys available here. There are no reps in France. There’s actually one Eloquence available but it’s a 17.5 and the panels are too long.

I think the perched feeling is if the saddle isn’t very close contact. For example a Kent and Masters feels like you’re sitting ON the saddle rather than IN the saddle and ON the horse rather than AROUND the horse.
My horses are small so a lot of saddles feel like I’m riding a saddle. I think that’s why I like the Solo and Aviar so much because they’re so close contact I can actually feel my horse. The knee roll/thigh block is often a problem is saddles. I need to ride with a bit of a shorter stirrup so that my legs aren’t floating in space on my small horses. But that usually means the block interferes.

[fermecinqsens]

What’s the deal with Bliss and Loxley saddles?
There are two Loxley for sale here with changeable gullet. Is Loxley a lower version of Bliss?
The Bliss Paramour looks like my kind of saddle. But none here to try.
I wonder if these saddles are built on the same tree. Could I try a Loxley and then buy a Bliss Paramour without trying it ?

[quietann]

Those 2 brands are made by the same folks. Look at their website.

Is a monograph design something you’re interested in?

[MapleFarm]

They’re different, but generally speaking Bliss is the more expensive version. It comes with fancier leather by default. I have two custom Loxleys - I tried the Bliss Paramore but I didn’t like it as much for my body, and was happy with the loxley I tried (and honestly didn’t want calf leather in the seat anyway, and loxley was much more affordable). They have three or four different trees, which you can get on either saddle. I’m happy with mine and with the company, they were about $3k fully custom.

[lazaret]

Not sure about availability where you are, but the Albion Fabrento suits this type of conformation pretty well. I have ponies of various forms and breeds and use these for them.

You may find the Rook to have a deeper seat, but they are a bit polarizing in how they feel for the rider. There’s I think three different versions now. I like the original Rook 1, but the fit for the horse is really different than any of the models you’ve said you’ve tried. I wouldn’t buy one unless the rep can bring you a few to try, and you buy the one you tried, as they’re all different IME.

[fermecinqsens]

I tried the Rook 2.
I can’t buy the one I tried because The one I tried didn’t have the right panels for my horse. It had the really deep panel but the fitter said my horse needs the thin panel.

Does the Rook 1 fit the horse differently? I’ve read the seat is less deep on the Rook 1. I wonder how much difference there is between these two models. It seems there’s more Rook 1s that I could maybe afford.

I could try an Albion Fabrento.
I’ve been avoiding Albion because I previously had an Albion Platinum which didn’t really fit horsie and I found it “meh” for me.

[fermecinqsens]

Question, if anyone’s reading my thread:

I found a Custom Omni that I can afford but it’s a 17.5
Normally I ride in a 17.
The panels are the same length for both seat size.
Will the extra half inch of seat size make that much difference to me ?!

[Laurierace]

Likely won’t make a huge difference to you but may make it sit too far back on your horse.

[SolarFlare]

I’ve found that the 1/2" can make a big difference in the balance for the rider, so I think you’re going to need to ride in it to find out.

[CanteringCarrot]

@SolarFlare

I’ve found that the 1/2" can make a big difference in the balance for the rider, so I think you’re going to need to ride in it to find out.

Yeah, it’s just a 1/2" but it can make a big difference for sure. It can also depend on the seat too (open, deep, flat spot in the seat, etc).

If the panels are the same size on both saddles, then it likely won’t be too long. I’m just not sure how it will be for you, which can impact the horse. Or if the balance point will be too far back.

[blue_heron]

What didn’t you like about the Paramour? Can you name some other saddles/brands you liked for you (regardless of if they fit the horse)? Trying to decide if it might work for me having tried two other Loxley models and didn’t like either of them if my fitter can get her hands on one.

[MapleFarm]

The paramour hit my pubic bone uncomfortably. It almost felt too narrow? My Loxleys have the “comfort twist” to make the w and xw feel a lot less wide, and this has made a huge difference. I don’t know why the paramour felt more narrow without it … my fitter said just trust whatever works for you

Otherwise, I like Trilogy Verago and (even more) Trilogy Amadeo for me, but I would have had to do a truly custom molded tree for them to work and it wasn’t in the budget for me.

[blue_heron]

Interesting. The last time my fitter came out she had two of the Bliss saddles but not the paramour. One had the comfort twist and the other didn’t. Both felt crazy wide. I didn’t even want to trot or canter becuase I felt so insecure in them.

I love my trilogy Verago (what I have now but it’s too long) and dislike the Amadeo.