Saddle sliding forward--crupper, foregirth...?

[wannabedvm]

I ride a young Gypsy Vanner, and we’re having some saddle issues.

He has a very large shoulder and low (mutton) wither. He’s well-sprung in the ribs, but his girth area is narrow. So, big surprise that we have a problem with the saddle sliding forward. /s

The front of the saddle is a touch narrow for him when it’s forward over his shoulder muscle, but as long as we place it back behind the shoulder a bit, it is comfortable for him. We will start with it in a great position, but it migrates forward while we ride, especially after canters. You can tell when it happens, because he becomes much more short-strided and tight.

Eventually we will get a new saddle, but he will be growing, and changing in his withers, for two more years at least, so we don’t want to get one right away. He really is quite comfortable with the saddle when it’s farther back–I just don’t know how to keep it there!

I hear talk about cruppers and foregirths and more, but I don’t know much about them. What’s USEF/USDF legal and able to be used regularly without causing major discomfort for the horse?

[Foxtail]

My friends with mules recommend britchens before cruppers for riding, but you’ll need to have one custom made to fit an English saddle. However cruppers are explicitly allowed, whereas britchens aren’t mentioned, so I’d have to assume they’re not permitted.

[Come_Shine]

It may be worth investing in something that fits if this is a horse that you have serious aspirations for. As a youngster you are laying down the foundation of all training that will follow. If the saddle is a problem that causes tightness and short strides, you are laying down pain pathways that may be difficult to resolve. However, I don’t know how much better it would be adding something to keep the saddle pulled back into position. Just a thought.

I do feel for you. I have a horse that’s a pretty similar shape and saddle shopping has been a nightmare. Had someone out to do custom and they said he was such an odd shape they wouldn’t even know where to start. Good luck!

[FarmersDaughter]

Use a foregirth. It will do exactly what you want to do. It sets the saddle back from the wither. It is legal in the show ring. It works better and looks better than a britchen or a crupper.

[wannabedvm]

@FarmersDaughter

Use a foregirth. It will do exactly what you want to do. It sets the saddle back from the wither. It is legal in the show ring. It works better and looks better than a britchen or a crupper.

I’ve read foregirths can cause wither/shoulder pain, too, since they are up on that area–do you have any experience using one? I think it sounds like the best bet, too.

[rememberthenight]

Are you using an anatomic girth like a county logic or TSF yet? That and and sometimes a crupper have been very helpful or my round arabs and friesian.

[jaybird660]

There are many reasons saddles slide forward. One is a saddle being too narrow or that the horse is narrower in front. Forward girth groove is another. If the horse has a downhill aspect, the saddle can slide forward in a different way. If the saddle is too long or the panel too straight, the movement/hips can push the saddle forward.

There are options in various saddles that can help with those issues depending on what or what combination of issues is causing the slip.

[CanteringCarrot]

I do not know the exact fit and conformation without seeing the horse, but my PRE has a forward girth groove, and if I use a plain straight girth his saddle tends to creep forward. If I use an anatomical girth (Total Saddle Fit, County Logic, Fairfax, etc) that alleviates the problem. You can search eBay for some on sale/lightly used.

[wannabedvm]

We do use an anatomical girth. The real issue is that his shoulder is just so big and he doesn’t want the saddle on it at all (and he’s short backed!), but the girth wont stay put when the saddle is placed farther back, because his girth groove is more forward. Here are a few pics that show his conformation–in the pic where I’m on him, the saddle is too far forward for what he likes–you can see how it is on his shoulder. I like to keep it back about a hand more.

http://m.imgur.com/gallery/V67qA

[Cat_Tap]

I had exactly the same problem. Also my horse’s girth groove is further forward than where the saddle should sit. The only thing that worked for me was a new saddle and an anatomical girth, I think it is a Fairfax. The horses movement is so much better now. His shoulder is free and the saddle stays put.

[TheHotSensitiveType]

Is the anatomical girth a ‘shoulder relief’ type girth? My mare has nearly no withers, a forward girth groove, and a well sprung rib cage. I was stunned how well this girth keeps the saddle where it is supposed to be. If my instructor had not suggested it, I never would have tried it… I was where you are, wondering if I had to use a crouper, a foregirth or just ride around on my mare’s shoulders!

https://totalsaddlefit.com/shop/srg/shoulder-relief-girth/

[RedHorses]

Mine is not mutton withered, but does have a short back and a mania about the saddle position. I use a small army of measures to keep the saddle in the safe zone, including a crupper, neoprene lined Total Saddle Fit StretchTec girth, and a NunnFiner non-slip pad. I also have non-slip material on top of the Thinline half pad to stop the saddle sliding over stationary pads, and cross my saddle billets when girthing up.

​​In addition to all that, I mount up with a barely snug girth that dangles if I forget to tighten it two holes before we trot. Good thing he has some withers and I have decent balance.

[wannabedvm]

@RedHorses

Mine is not mutton withered, but does have a short back and a mania about the saddle position. I use a small army of measures to keep the saddle in the safe zone, including a crupper, neoprene lined Total Saddle Fit StretchTec girth, and a NunnFiner non-slip pad. I also have non-slip material on top of the Thinline half pad to stop the saddle sliding over stationary pads, and cross my saddle billets when girthing up.

​​In addition to all that, I mount up with a barely snug girth that dangles if I forget to tighten it two holes before we trot. Good thing he has some withers and I have decent balance.

What does mounting with a loose girth do to help?

[RedHorses]

Because of the forward girth groove tightening the girth pulls the saddle forward. My guy is very concerned about the saddle coming forward as it pinches a nerve when it goes too far. If the saddle is getting close he will hump his back in his worry, which also pushes the saddle forward (I have yet to convince him of that though ). Leaving the girth barely snug allows the saddle to stay put while he realizes it isn’t in the danger zone and relaxes. It may not be helpful to anyone else, but if that nerve gets pinched my boy will buck.