With adjustable gullet/plate saddles, just realize all you’re changing is the width of the front panels, and once you go beyond a couple of increases in width, the next one up may change the overall shape/balance of the saddle.
That doesn’t mean they don’t work for things like this, just know that if you’re starting in a M, and the MW is still fine, and maybe the W is fine, the XW may or may not be the right shape for her anymore, regardless of width in that area (and probably won’t be).
I don’t know if I agree with that. My young horse is super sensitive. I spent over $1,000 flying saddles around and nearly that much in saddle fittings. If the saddle needed a saddle fitter pad to try and make it fit with shims and stuff, he was not having it. The Fairfax World Class has shoulder blocks that help the rider with stability (important with baby horses who are all over the place). I loved the small shoulder block that helped to stabilize my leg but I could not use him with this guy and had to put the blank leather patches on the velcro. He didn’t think he could pull his shoulder back or bend if I had them on. Also bits have been a real thing, especially when he is cutting teeth. He loved a bit that was not legal because it had very little movement. A mullen mouth bit was too little and a 3 piece bit too much. I finally settled on a Sprenger three piece locking mouth bit (legal) which is 3 pieces when he is soft and locks if he tries to lean or gets stiff. It has been great. I will never be able to sell this horse because he is so sensitive and can become dangerous if you don’t pay attention to what he is telling you…on the other hand, he is probably the smartest and most talented horse I have ever had the privilege to sit on.
Get to the root of it–find a saddle that REALLY fits. It’s worth it!
This is true, to an extent. If you buy a saddle that you can change the gullet plates that is also wool flocked and has other points of adjustment, it will likely work out. I don’t think that a horse that is of riding age will change so drastically that it won’t work if you can adjust it along the whole saddle. I’ve honestly never had a horse that deviated more than one half to one full tree size up (and then later down). What horse would that be, if started at a good age for starting (like 3.5 years to 4)?
I know this is completely unsolicited, and not your topic, but I can’t help but wonder how much she would benefit from getting out on trails and not getting to wrapped up in the ring work which sounds like its frying her young brain, some horses don’t mature to that but over longer time.
Even if she was ponied on the trail to start, get her thinking forward and learning to relax into something interesting. Anyway, that’s something I would consider with her, to get her just moving out. Smart horses will find ways to mess around, and she may take to long trots down a country lane.
Her muscling might lengthen out a bit, and not bunch up? Just musing. I’m done. Carry on!
I have one! Came to me as a MN, now goes in a XW-XXW, depending on brand. He was racing fit when I got him and while he didn’t grow vertically, boy did he grow horizontally. And he isn’t fat, just has a huge rib cage and shoulders.
It’s not uncommon with the young ones or ones with zero real muscle to drastically change shape - but I’ve found if you get the general shape of the tree right, you can get away with sheepskin and wool pads and shimming for a bit. But I’ve had plenty go from scoopy/curvy backs to pretty flat with work - that’s when we end up changing saddles vs pads.
I’m following this thread with interest because I’ve had similar saddle fitting woes. Mine is a hard keeper and changes shape a lot through the year. He also has a high wither, enormous shoulder, and short, straight back. I bought a used Devocoux for a small fortune that was professionally fitted to him, but with the caveat that he’s a difficult shape and may never have a perfect fit. The panels are very snug and I was advised that that’s what you want: level, even pressure back to front. But I can’t help feeling like he’d be better off with a roomier saddle with more wither clearance and thicker panels that sit higher off his back. One that might seem loose when it’s just sitting on his back, but can be made to fit snug with a half pad when it’s girthed up.
The idea that the panels fit so snug on him bareback makes me concerned they’re too snug with a half pad, rider weight, and girth. Isn’t that like if you went to a shoe store and they made you try on hiking boots without socks, didn’t have you walk around, and were looking for a perfect fit from toe to heel while you’re just sitting in a chair?
Anyway I ordered a Kent and Masters saddle on trial, and it is definitely a much roomier fit. But my trainer is not a fan and advises making the Devocoux work, maybe reflocking it. She says the adjustable tree thing is a gimmick and that if it were really effective, the higher end brands would have incorporated the technology. She also pointed out there’s a very limited second hand market for these saddles, which I agree, they’re hard to find second hand. But could that also just be that they fit peoples horses better year after year, so they hold onto them? Idc about quality or luxury at this point, I would be happy to trade my Devocoux for a Wintec that fits.
I wasn’t referring to any other part of the saddle, just the adjustable plate. Any saddle with wool flocking can be re-flocked to tweak it to the horse’s shape, with more, or less full panels for example. But that doesn’t change the overall shape - won’t make flatter panels more curvy, or vice versa
I started lightly riding my WB the Summer of his 3yo year. We started in a M Bates Caprilli. Over the next 2 years, maybe 18 months, we progressed to the W, and it was with the XW plate that the shape no longer fit him. By the time he was around 7/8 or so (it’s been a while), he was in a 39cm Prestige dressage saddle, which is substantially bigger than that XW plate, and if he’d stayed sound, was going to be in a Black Country Quantum X (hoop tree) in an XW, also wider than the Bates
“very snug” needs more info 
Yes, you want even pressure front to back, though some, mostly in the Dressage world, require saddles to fit with a very slight bridge so that there’s room for the horse to lift his back into it.
But there’s a difference between “snug” to the point it’s a great fit and it just needs a regular pad, and so snug that anything more than a baby pad makes it too narrow.
Why is your trainer not a fan? Are they also a saddle fitter? Reflocking a saddle is an option, but you really need someone very competent at that
Definitely not someone I’d be taking saddle advice from if that’s what she thinks. I don’t disagree that there’s a bit of a gimmick to it when the maker says “adjustable to fit all horses”, because NO saddle can do that, no matter how much you reflock it or widen/narrow it (which can be done on some saddles by a professional, it’s not a changeable gullet deal).
I, personally, and many fitters I know (but not all of them!) believe in fitting 1/2-1 size wide and using padding to get the “snug” fit. Pads are “softer”, more forgiving, then panels are, and you can use varying thickness of pads as a horse gains/loses weight or muscle. Balance International is where I first learned about this concept, and I still prefer it 15 years later.
I got a Wintec wide AP when I got my fjord as a three year old, he’s 6 now. I had to change out the gullet for the largest one they make and we fiddled around with the CAIR shims (or whatever they are considered). I’ve also got a Wintec wide close contact western saddle now which fits us both better than the AP. The western isn’t adjustable though.
I’m not sure which direction I want to go with a nicer saddle yet, but Ive really got my moneys worth out of the adjustable Wintec. He’s actually got shoulders and some wither now, so being able to adjust the AP for that has been great.
With all that said, he isn’t fussy about saddle fit either.
Totally normal with TBs too. I don’t wonder sometimes if some saddle fitters see high peaky wither and tenty spine and assume the horse needs something marrow, while ignoring the body plan underneath that will develop in a few years time. Thoroughbreds get wide as they get older and they usually have much wider shoulders than horses of a similar height.
Just about every one of my TBs has ended up a MW or W and I’ve had all body types, but their backs and shoulders were typically similar.
I’m surprised you got a Devoucoux to fit that body shape. They are typically better for rounder, longer backs without hollows behind the shoulder, which is why they tend to fit some WBs better.
What you said of your horse does sound like a rather typical TB - they tend to do better in wool than foam, and the tree points being shorter seems more amenable to some.
My Ponysaurus is in a Fairfax dressage saddle, which is the higher end of the Thorowgood/K&M/Fairfax conglomerate. We had a new K&M on trial but my fitter found this used Fairfax and snapped it up for me at a fair price. I think the limited market is because they go fast or people hang onto them. And they don’t break the bank.
As @JB points out, it is not a “one fits all” solution. These saddles are not meant for daily changes. I started Ponysaurus in a borrowed Wintec and when my fitter helped me find his “adult” saddle this was the one she liked. The shape was right, the panels are right, the length fits on Shorty’s back, the balance was right, etc for us. My trainer doesn’t LOVE my saddle…but I am the owner and she agrees that it works the best. The adjustable gullet is an additional feature at this point (he has been as narrow as an M and as wide as W).
I DO think that the Thorowgood/K&M/Fairfax line is a good option for you and the OP, if the shape is right.
Yes, yes, yes!! And then they keep scratching their head about why the horse isn’t developing muscle beside the withers, and go “oh well, he’s a TB, that’s just how they are”
My 2 exactly - I didn’t know then what I know now, but the original JB deserved a saddle obviously wider than I had for him, but back then, “if it clears the withers, it fits” 
My TB mare is the same way, with bigger withers, but a deceptively wide shoulder area.
I agree. I used this, as well, on youngsters (I’ve tended to select/breed for horses with similar backs). Always had the fit evaluated by a trusted independent saddle fitter.
I dunno, I wouldn’t call the Fairfax saddles bargain saddles, and they have the gullet plates. Albion has the adjusta-tree, they are a higher end saddle. And the Tota is fully adjustable with a press, and it’s not cheap either. And, yes, they are hard to find secondhand because people tend to keep them. When my fitter sells a secondhand adjustable saddle, it usually goes very quickly.
A young horse will need frequent reflockings and tree adjustments. I think I’ve adjusted or changed saddles on my coming 6 y/o 7 times in almost two years - 3 different saddles, 4 tree adjustments and flocking changes, from MW to XW. And my mare has gone from MW to XXW in three years - and she is 17!
Be careful with snug panels - snug can lead to a pinch with a rider in the seat if the gullet is narrow enough.
@JB This has been my experience with adjustable saddles, too. I’m not opposed to one, but I think people put too much stock in the word adjustable. And I’m really cautious of saddles with trees that are adjustable via press.
@Ambitious_Kate She’s definitely not fried. I plan to trail ride her some the end of this summer and the fall, unfortunately most of our trails are a long walk down a busy road and I’ve lost my trail riding buddy while her horse is recovering from an injury. She does ground drive on our little trails around the property and long lines in the grass paddock. We rarely do the same thing two days in a row.
She came up touchy in her lower back last week. I have a huge collection of half pads and couldn’t make any of my saddles work (all for medium wide to wide horses with short, flat backs). They either bounce a lot in the cantle or, if I push the saddle back behind her shoulder, it is both too long and gets thrown back onto her shoulder. I tried a friend’s saddle with flat upswept panels and it seemed to fit in the shoulders but bounced way too much. I was able to engineer something for this week with another friend’s saddle and a bunch of shims, but it was still too wide. She’s not as wide as she looks.
this means either too wide and may be fine with appropriate shims up front, or it’s too curvy for her back
they’re supposed to be behind the shoulder. well, the front panels need to be behind the scapula. So they should ALL be back there. If you’re sliding them back to their proper place, and they are getting pushed forward, this suggests either too wide (see above), or too flat for either a curvier back, or a shorter back with an upsweeping loin
After all this - can you get some pictures? Full body conformation-type shot without saddle, and a rear view from above with her standing square and head/neck straight, so we can see the lateral shape of her back and shoulders.
Then 1-2 of the saddles that don’t fit but in different ways
Yes, I realize they’re all supposed to be behind the shoulder. Poor wording on my part. I can send some pics and my thoughts tomorrow.
Older thread, but wanted to toss out another model for adjustable saddles that I have had a lot of success with for a revolving door of sales horses - Ideal now makes a line called “Technical and Traditional” which is adjustable from Medium to Extra Wide and uses a gullet plate that is anatomically shaped to sweep away like the old swept back tree points.
I bought one last year and love it - it’s very comfortable to ride in and custom options were available, so mine has a stingray cantle and blue piping. It was about $3k brand new, shipped from England, ordered from SaddlesWorldwide.
The only horses it hasn’t been able to passably fit have been super flat no-withers hoop tree types, which I don’t think any adjustable would have fit. We have an old Icon Eclipse for them.
Well, my saddle fitter came out earlier in the fall and found something that fit great. Didn’t bounce behind like crazy, which every other saddle I have tried on her has. I bought it, and a month later, she hates it. I feel like I’m constantly riding with the hand brake on. She has been vetted including neck and back, on ulcer management, farrier and vet in communication, and forward and lovely on the longe.
My fitter was fine with the length of the saddle but I’m wondering if she might be more comfortable with a shorter panel. My trainer and I are in agreement. She is very compact back to front with big gaits. Anyone have experience with the French saddles for someone who usually likes English made saddles? Did they make you feel pitched forward in a half seat? I cannot ride in a Black Country or Schleese which I know make saddles for short-backed horses-- like literally will give my blisters and pain for days.
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