Saddles . . . again

[Pocket_Pony]

Okay, so I think I may start saddle shopping again. I think my saddle is an okaaaayyyy fit for Mac, but I think I could do better.

So. Some questions. When I bought my last saddle, I didn’t try the exact saddle itself, but I had tried what the saddle fitter had on her truck and then ordered one with the features I wanted. I have no complaints about the quality of the workmanship and materials used - I think it is well-made and a good product. Before I had tried that saddle I tried many, many, many new and used saddles. Why I’m thinking of doing this again makes me think I’m crazy! :eek:

Anyway question. Would you buy a saddle you couldn’t try if you could work with the saddle maker directly / in-person (vs. doing it long distance)? I’m not toooo far from a saddle maker (JJ Maxwell - found him through froglander’s post a while back) and I could haul Mac there for fittings.

Or would you rather buy off-the-shelf new or used knowing that you would have a chance to try before you buy?

How worth it is it to have a saddle made for you? I guess I know the answer to that since the one I have now was made for me, and I still don’t love it 100%. In an ideal world, I’d ride in the exact saddle before I buy it. Did I just answer my own question?

froglander, how are your saddle woes going?

[morgan01]

well, I ended up getting a crestridge saddle from Debra. The saddle fits my horse just perfect. She has you do measurements on your horse - shows on her website and she will help you more over the phone or email. She is extremely helpful. I got my saddle and it just wasn’t perfect. She had me take pictures and walked me thru it and said, 'send it back, I think we need to go with that extra wide instead." She will not just leave you in a lurch. The saddles are beautiful and comfortable. Several ones to choose from.

[craz4crtrs]

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7537332]
Okay, so I think I may start saddle shopping again. I think my saddle is an okaaaayyyy fit for Mac, but I think I could do better.

So. Some questions. When I bought my last saddle, I didn’t try the exact saddle itself, but I had tried what the saddle fitter had on her truck and then ordered one with the features I wanted. I have no complaints about the quality of the workmanship and materials used - I think it is well-made and a good product. Before I had tried that saddle I tried many, many, many new and used saddles. Why I’m thinking of doing this again makes me think I’m crazy! :eek:

Anyway question. Would you buy a saddle you couldn’t try if you could work with the saddle maker directly / in-person (vs. doing it long distance)? I’m not toooo far from a saddle maker (JJ Maxwell - found him through froglander’s post a while back) and I could haul Mac there for fittings.

Or would you rather buy off-the-shelf new or used knowing that you would have a chance to try before you buy?

How worth it is it to have a saddle made for you? I guess I know the answer to that since the one I have now was made for me, and I still don’t love it 100%. In an ideal world, I’d ride in the exact saddle before I buy it. Did I just answer my own question?

froglander, how are your saddle woes going?[/QUOTE]

After going through saddle nightmares, including a custom saddle fit to my horse, I would work with a saddle fitter or maker to fit your horse and YOU. I did a custom to fit my big shouldered mare and while it was a gorgeous saddle, fit the horse, did not fit me at all.

I then went through a relatively local saddler, two hours away, fit my horse with their trees. They could have built me a saddle, but they are a Courts dealer. They worked closely with Courts telling them what I needed and what was needed to fit my mare. I ended up with a semi-custom ladies all around. Fits us both and love the saddle. By semi-custom, I mean I had a 16 in seat ordered and had the color and seat custom ordered color wise. With the wide pommel, and wide 4 in cantle, the saddle rides small and I wanted plenty of room for chaps, winter clothing etc.

I still recommend the first custom saddle, super heavy duty but saddle fitting from WA state to TX was tricky. I honestly thought if the saddle fit my horses, it would fit me. It didn’t. How wide a twist, how much padding, no padding. All those really effect how you sit and ride in a saddle.

I had a custom saddle made in 2007 from Pauls Saddlery. It fit the horse I had it made for and ok for me. It did not fit my mare, way too narrow in the shoulders. Loved the saddle and quality, but my Courts still fits me much better. The Pauls was a hard seat, my Courts padded with a higher narrow twist. No comparison. That being said, a padded or hard seat too wide or narrow on the twist can be very uncomfortable if your pelvis isn’t the same shape as the tree.

So, get both of your fitted.

[ColouredHorsesDownUn]

I would work with a saddlemaker, if possible.
It helps if you have an idea of the seat shape you have liked in past saddles - they can often find the tree that was used

[froglander]

I really like the Rod Nikkel website about saddle trees and fit. Wandering through there I found a list of saddle makers that use his trees and wandered through a few of those that have websites and ended up emailing this one http://www.mhleather.com/ and she was really nice about emailing me back and answering questions and stuff even though I am not in a position right now to be able to look for a new saddle.

With my saddle for now, I am using a 3/4" 5-star pad and then a couple 1/4" felt shims I had cut out a while back (at the moment using one on the left and two on the right at the suggestion of my instructor).

Cody is willing to move in it well enough and I think it works okay for now until I can afford to go saddle shopping again. A friend let me know of a used Thorowgood dressage saddle that might come up for sale by a friend of hers (friend of friend is slow to decide if they are going to sell or not) and if I can get that for a good price and find it comfy might start riding in that for now and try and sell my western saddle. Guessing it’s going to take a bit to sell it as out here many are turned off by the hard seat

If you want, I can dig through my email and share some of what the gal from that website I mentioned had to say?

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=froglander;7538825]

If you want, I can dig through my email and share some of what the gal from that website I mentioned had to say?[/QUOTE]

Sure, I’d love that - you can send me a PM if you don’t want to share it publicly!

[quarterhorse4me]

If you have an idea what is comfortable to you, you may have luck finding one that fits your horse from a retailer. I bought an “over the counter” saddle at the Horse Saddle Shop and had good luck for my wide gelding. They are very responsive via email.

We have had a hard time with my daughter’s mare and I think I am going to get the templates from the Horse Saddle Shop and see if they can help me fit something to her. As I see it, one draw back to getting a saddle custom made is the resale risk you take if you decide you do not like it. For the most part, you stand a better chance of getting your money back off of ebay or some of the other selling sites if the saddle is a widely recognized brand even though the custom saddle and the saddle maker may be absolutely great.

[Bluey]

Here, saddle makers will guarantee the saddle will fit.
If it does not, they take it back and sell it again.
There may be some extra charges for special features, like if you order very short fenders on any other than a kid’s saddle, then they will need to make regular sized ones to resell it.
They are months behind with saddle orders, so they always have a great demand for their very good saddles, those they make for customers and the few they have in stock.

Years ago, a top saddle maker here, he is in the Cowboy Hall of Fame for his saddles, made me a beautiful saddle, that fit practically every horse.
The problem, I had requested a 14 1/2" tree and he thought I needed a 15".
We went back and forth and one day he called that the saddle was made, come get it.

Well, that saddle fit horses well, but I have a bad hip and it hurt to ride in it and I will always think he went to a 15" tree and it was just too long and wide for me.
He sold it for me to someone from Europe.
It truly was a work of art, beautiful tooling all over.

I have another of his saddles that fits me very well, but it has somewhat cut under swells, not quite to the extent of a low moose.
That may be why I like it in the smaller seat size, even if I may really need that 1/2" more otherwise.

There is so much to western saddles, you really have to keep trying until you find what fits you best.

[mvp]

OP, do you know what you want in a saddle-- the geometry that’s right for you?

If you are going to go custom, then for the love of God, get that saddle right for you as well as for the horse.

I will put in a plug for working with a saddle maker in Western World (as opposed to buying “custom” saddles in English World).

I ride a horse with a funky back. A trainer sent them to a local guy who makes trees (what a resource!). That guy made a tree for this horse and then had the HOs have a saddle maker he recommended built a saddle on that tree.

Everyone is happy. I don’t know what other horse this saddle will fit, but this horse’s back never hurts, the saddle doesn’t move and I’m pretty sure neither of those would have been true with any off-the-shelf saddle.

Best of all? I think that whole thing cost around $1K. The saddle’s leather isn’t as beautiful as I’d like. But then again, if I were buying I would have done the same and spent more on the leather and tooling and walked out with a much larger bill.

But the tree made for the horse made me a believer in the value of custom-ing in Western World.

[craz4crtrs]

Unless you have already been riding in a wade, ride in some before you order one. I have a slanted pelvis and the wade type I custom ordered was too flat a seat and too wide a twist for my pelvis. After working with a saddle maker and looking at their saddles, I need a rise in front of me with narrower padding. Made a HUGE difference. So ride in one before buying.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=craz4crtrs;7539419]
Unless you have already been riding in a wade, ride in some before you order one. I have a slanted pelvis and the wade type I custom ordered was too flat a seat and too wide a twist for my pelvis. After working with a saddle maker and looking at their saddles, I need a rise in front of me with narrower padding. Made a HUGE difference. So ride in one before buying.[/QUOTE]

Yes, wades feel like sitting on a bump on a log to me too, not comfortable at all.
Others, wades just fit their behinds just right, go figure.

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=mvp;7539251]
OP, do you know what you want in a saddle-- the geometry that’s right for you?

If you are going to go custom, then for the love of God, get that saddle right for you as well as for the horse.

I will put in a plug for working with a saddle maker in Western World (as opposed to buying “custom” saddles in English World).

I ride a horse with a funky back. A trainer sent them to a local guy who makes trees (what a resource!). That guy made a tree for this horse and then had the HOs have a saddle maker he recommended built a saddle on that tree.

Everyone is happy. I don’t know what other horse this saddle will fit, but this horse’s back never hurts, the saddle doesn’t move and I’m pretty sure neither of those would have been true with any off-the-shelf saddle.

Best of all? I think that whole thing cost around $1K. The saddle’s leather isn’t as beautiful as I’d like. But then again, if I were buying I would have done the same and spent more on the leather and tooling and walked out with a much larger bill.

But the tree made for the horse made me a believer in the value of custom-ing in Western World.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know how to put into “geometry” things I like or don’t like about a saddle - is there somewhere that I can find the verbiage about it? I can say that I like a flat seat, moderate twist (too narrow and I feel like I’m sitting on my crotch - too wide and it hurts my hips), not too steep of a rise, feet underneath me, and not too high of a cantle. Other than that, what would I need to know/say about the geometry of a fit for me?

Mac doesn’t have an unusual back per se, just a back that doesn’t fit into the QH/semi-QH/full-QH trees, as they have too much rock in them, so buying an off-the-shelf saddle would be difficult. I don’t know that I need to go full custom (custom tree), but JJ Maxwell has the Steele tree forms (that I’ve put on Mac before and know that two of the trees are good options for him) and so I think one of those would work and then a saddle could be built around that. He’s not too far from me (and I’ll actually be up that way next weekend anyway) that it would be prohibitive to take Mac for a fitting, and I do think it would be best to work 1/1 with someone directly who can see him, see his back, see how he stands, see how he moves, etc. The saddle I have now is certainly functional, but I felt like there was a disconnect between the fitter, the company, the actual saddle maker, that I didn’t end up with something that I completely love.

I plan on keeping Mac forever but I don’t know that I want to go with a custom tree if I don’t have to. I’ve known of more than a few people who have gotten a completely custom saddle that doesn’t actually work for the horse or the person or both, that it seems like a risky proposition even though on paper everything should work out perfectly.

[SaddleUp158]

Not sure if you have considered Rocking R Saddles, but you can “rent their trees” to try on your horse and then either buy one already made on that tree or have one made. I seriously considered this, I have heard nothing but good things about their saddles.

[froglander]

Just reading some stuff and thought these were a couple of interesting posts:

http://www.rodnikkel.com/content/saddle-tree-blog-from-shop-and-desk/saddle-fit-shoulder-blades-and-flare/

http://www.rodnikkel.com/content/saddle-tree-blog-from-shop-and-desk/movement-of-the-shoulder-blades-and-saddle-fit/

[katarine]

I’ve had two Rocking R saddles made (the Rocking R in Ider, AL). Both were customs from the tree up. But I could travel to the shop to do that.

One I still have and have that horse. I sold the other horse, and have no need for the first one I had made. I wish you were closer- it’s a damn nice saddle, it’d be interesting to see if it fit you and your horse. Hard seat, simple, balanced, comfortable.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4981119534433&l=e98add19f9

[froglander]

How is your saddle hunt going Pocket Pony?

[Pocket_Pony]

Hi froglander, I’m at the Buck Brannaman clinic now (complete with thunder and lightning storm) and I’m going to see JJ Maxwell on Tuesday since he’s just 30 minutes from here. I think the best thing is to work directly with the saddle maker himself, especially for my peace of mind!

[froglander]

I just saw that you where at the clinic when I peeked at your blog earlier today Have fun!!! And good luck with saddles

[Pocket_Pony]

Just an update to say that I went and visited with JJ Maxwell yesterday for a fitting for Mac. What nice people! And I got to sit in a fancy brand-new saddle he just finished for an upcoming show - stingray inlaid seat and gorgeous tooling everywhere else.

He uses Steele trees and got out the tree forms to put on Mac. First I showed him my current saddle and explained the problems I was having with it. From the outside just looking at the angles it does look like a good fit, but underneath there is a significant area of the bars (right under the seat) that isn’t making contact. We put all the forms on Mac’s back and it looks like the mule tree ISN’T the best fit after all - it is too straight . . . which is the problem I have with my current saddle. He decided on two forms that looked the best and then went into his shop and got actual trees to put on Mac’s back. We went back and forth a couple of times, checking angles, rock, contact, etc., and decided that Steele’s LT tree is best.

So I ordered a saddle.

Gulp! But it will be lovely and just what I want, I’m pretty sure! Now I just have to wait and wait and wait.

At the end we were talking about their Hope rigging system and I asked why he didn’t place the rear ring farther back and he said if you do that then it becomes more of a center-fire rigging which tends to pull the saddle forward. He hadn’t noticed that that was the type of rigging I had - and one of the problems I have.

So I am going to sell my current saddle.

After going through this I would say if at all possible if you are going to get a new saddle, to work with the saddle maker directly and if you can do it in person, so much the better.

[froglander]

Congrats on the new saddle! Which model did you get??? (I think they have quite pretty saddles) How heavy do they seem?