Saddles and kids - advice needed

[Ponygirlmom]

We just had a saddle fit assessment done by an independent professional fitter for my daughter’s saddle and her horse (hony really, relevant because she will outgrow him in the next few years) and got mixed feedback. It was mostly an okay fit but the channel is notably too narrow. We don’t want to spend more than necessary on a short-term saddle, but also don’t want to be causing him pain.

The fitter recommended checking out the junior programs with Voltaire, Antares, Devoucoux, and CWD, but perusing online I’m not so sure about them. They seem like they’re better deals for the saddle makers than the consumers (particularly those that are leases, where you don’t own the saddle at the end?), but perhaps I’m wrong about that. I’m also not sure how a custom saddle fitting with a child would even go - I’m pretty sure she’s not going to be great at giving feedback about how the saddle feels for her (though maybe this is a more minor consideration than how it objectively fits, which can be determined by an experienced adult?) And overriding it all is the fact that it seems insane to spend this much on a new saddle for a growing child - though perhaps that is exactly the reason to consider the junior programs?

My inclination would be to look for a used saddle, but we were told that it will be extremely difficult to find one and likely isn’t worth the effort. I’m somewhat skeptical of this, as it seems like buying used and trading up as needed would be a more cost effective options, if we do need a used saddle. That said, it was strongly discouraged and I’m hesitant to strike out on my own.

To bring my rambling to a conclusion, I’d love others’ takes on saddle for kids. When is it worth upgrading from the starter Collegiate/Beval/Pessoas? Can a child provide meaningful feedback to the saddle fitting process? Are the junior programs worth considering? Is it possible to find a good-fit used saddle? Any tips for accomplishing any of the above?

[Scribbler]

There is nothing wrong with a lower priced saddle that fits the horse and rider.

The appropriate time to put your child in a $10,000 custom French saddle that they will outgrow in a year is when you win the lottery or cash out your original Microsoft shares and want to broadcast the fact. Otherwise don’t evrn let your mind go that way.

I’m not sure about the current emphasis on extremely wide channels. On a smaller horse that can mean a reduced area for panel contact. It’s the current buzzword for fitters and reps but I don’t 100 per cent buy it. Also saddles can be reflocked with new panels and a wider channel if you want.

I’m an adult and I only buy quality used saddles and they fit me and my horse.

I don’t know why a child couldn’t be coached to provide feedback on how a saddle feels to them. A good trainer can see if the saddle is contributing to chair seat or tipping forward etc

[hoopoe]

you dont mention how old your daughter is. I suspect if it is presented to her, via her trainer, perhaps, that part of being a good horsewoman is knowing and caring about saddle fit for both horse and rider. Perhaps trainer can use it as a teachable moment . Putting her is saddles too big too small chair seat pitched and let her learn to feel and communicate that feel.

I agree a good used saddle is a good investment and one that does not have to be let go of, but kept for future potential use. I am not sure where you live but my local saddle shop in a west coast metro area has used saddles in shop.

You can also network with local barns and see if there is a kids saddle that was replaced by Santa and new needs a new home.

I am surprised you saddle fitter does not have a supply of used saddles that she/he is trying to rehome.

[Limerick2017]

Hi, former pony mom here. First accept the fact that there is a strong saddle industry with people earning commissions on sales and it wants to suck you in. You can avoid it. There has to be a decent saddle that fits your child and the little horse. Are there any true saddle fitters in your area? People who have trained to fit saddles and NOT people who got jobs at Devoucoux/Voltaire etc and learned how much they would make on selling you a custom saddle versus a used saddle. The person you used sounds like she/he has been sucked into the “you have to only buy a high end saddle” mindset. Are there any kids at your barn with quality saddles that you could try? I have had luck with the older Butets and my kids had the size 14-16 Beval saddles and they worked out perfectly. I have zeroed in on a saddle and then spent a day calling every tack shop with used saddle programs that i could think of. You have to be tenacious.

Good luck!

[DawgLady]

Ooh, great question. Another former pony mom here. Here’s my two cents.

Don’t get sucked into those French saddle junior programs. They’re no kind of “deal.” I bought my daughter a used PJ pro for about $2000. It was a lovely saddle that fit her and the pony well. I sold it a few years later for $1500.

If I had to do again, I would seek out a used, wool-flocked saddle of the appropriate tree size. A good fitter can adjust the flocking (and recommend padding) so that the saddle will work well enough for the hony.

As for your daughter’s feedback, how old is she? My daughter was 10 or 11 when we bought that PJ, and she was absolutely able to identify what felt right. Also, the trainer watched her ride in it and gave good feedback.

[js]

I don’t see any point in spending $$$ on a custom saddle a child will outgrow in short time, unless there is a specific fitting issue with the horse. While custom saddles will hold some of their value they won’t hold all of it. There is nothing wrong with Crosby (the new version), Ovation, Pessoa, Bates, or other saddles that cost much less. I would look at these first before considering custom. The biggest problem you might have is finding something in stock.

[Bristol_Bay]

Looking for a used saddle can be agonizing. There are so many stories here on COTH about finding a $500 gem that fits “every horse I’ve put it on” but I’ve bought many used saddles trying for that bargain and it’s never worked out for me. If you are lucky enough to have an independent saddle fitter with a van full of used saddle options, by all means, go that route.

If not, keep in mind that shipping is astronomical now, and you could easily spend $1000 trying saddles and honestly, wasting time. You would want the saddle fitter to weigh in, and how much are you paying her? It all adds up.

I would take her advice and do the junior program. You not only have a growing child, but one that will need a new horse soon. If she’s going to be showing, you want the security of a well-fitting saddle.

[NC001]

I wanted a saddle for my daughter when she as around 11. I found a used 16 inch pessoa that had an adjustable gullet for $1000. It fit the horse she was leasing as well as a few others. And it was a super comfortable. She rode in it for 3.5 yrs until she changed horses. It did fit the new horse ok, but it no longer fit her well. I sold it for $850 to some one who was thrilled to get it.

My advice if you try to go the used route, buy a brand that is easy to re-sell in case it doesnt work out and get one with an adjustable gullet.

[Scribbler]

There is no guarantee that one of the high end saddles that has a junior program is going to be the right fit for the horse.

[Ponygirlmom]

Thanks for all the perspectives - this is very helpful!

The good news is it sounds like at fourth grade my daughter is probably old enough to participate in the process.

The concern about shipping on used saddles is a real one. We don’t have any tack shops with a used inventory nearby (the closest is about four hours away and has a grand total of six in stock only one of which is even the right seat size), and another parent recently went down this path and ended up spending as much on shipping trial saddles back and forth as she did on the used Pessoa saddle that ended up being the keeper.

Our saddle fitter is indeed independent, not affiliated with any of the saddle lines. He’s well respected for ability to determine fit, but doesn’t sell any saddles himself. And yes, of course he’d charge to evaluate the used saddle fit, though he taught us enough at the initial fitting that I think I have a pretty good sense of it at this point. But that’s still another potential cost of going used.

My inclination is to at least talk to the barn’s preferred French saddle rep when they’re next out to learn the details of the program. I suspect it’s not going to be for us, but maybe there’s some benefit I’m not understanding. I’m also curious about whether they have used saddles. And then I also wonder if it would make sense to get what their recommended configuration is and if they don’t have a used option see if I can track down a used version that meets the same specs, though I don’t know if this is “done” or not - I don’t want to step on the toes of someone who we may well need to work with down the line.

There are a couple I’ve seen online in my casual searching that look like they could be options - they have wider channels, the right size seat, and the right size/configuration of flaps. One is particularly intriguing as it looks like a very good deal on an older CWD that’s been well maintained. I’m hesitant to go it alone on this, though, precisely because of the risk of shipping/return/restocking costs if it doesn’t work out.

And in the meantime, it sounds like the current saddle isn’t necessarily bad. It was an incredibly good deal from that four hour away tack shop. The only concern was the narrow channel, which sounds like it may not be as big a problem as I feared.

Thanks again, all. And if you have more thoughts I’d love to hear any and all perspectives

[Bristol_Bay]

A good rep will indeed fit the saddle to the horse, and also to the rider.

[StormyDay]

There are tons of used saddles out there. Unless pony is an extremely hard fit, you can find a used saddle.
Right now, it’s popular to tell riders that the only good saddles are French saddles. But it’s just a trend, and just like how it used to be all good saddles we’re German, or American, or whatever before the French trend, this too shall pass.

But the good thing about this is high quality English saddles are cheaper right now. Just because the saddle is 15+ years old, doesn’t mean it’s not a well made saddle.

I remember growing up, everyone wanted a Pessoa. It was the saddle to own. Then everyone wanted a prestige. Then everyone wanted a CWD.

[Limerick2017]

Has your child sat in a CWD? I ask because we had one and both my daughter and I hated it. It was heavy and had a wide twist. She did not tell me she hated it until her horse started complaining about it after jumps. We got them a Butet and he never reacted after a jump again.

I would look at older Butets or Devoucoux before I would ever sit in a CWD.

IMHO, I think we are seeing more back issues in horses because of the weight of some of these saddles!

[Mountain_Trails]

@Limerick2017

IMHO, I think we are seeing more back issues in horses because of the weight of some of these saddles!

Western trail rider here, so I know close to zero about English saddles…but how much can these saddles possibly weigh?

Western saddles can weight 40-50 lbs and nobody ever talks about back issues because of them. The rider/saddle combination being too heavy for the horse, sure, but not the saddle weight alone, because compared to the rider the saddle is the lighter part of the equation.

Of course western riders don’t tend to jump much, and weight distribution on a western saddle is presumably better than English. I was just curious what a “heavy” English saddle weighs?

Forgive my ignorance, I generally don’t post in the English sections of the forum because they are out of my league.

[EVneo]

@Ponygirlmom

And then I also wonder if it would make sense to get what their recommended configuration is and if they don’t have a used option see if I can track down a used version that meets the same specs, though I don’t know if this is “done” or not - I don’t want to step on the toes of someone who we may well need to work with down the line.

IMO, a good fitter will be open to give you the specs and recommendations you need, or be willing to check the serial # if brand-specific. Albeit, I think I have a gem, but my fitter has said she considers this “yes this could work, no way that would fit” consulting part of a “new saddle evaluation.” It would definitely be worth asking if they’re okay if you do this! I feel like a good fitter (not just a rep trying to make a sale) is realistic that not everyone has a budget for a new saddle, so how do they then provide a service for the used market clients (which I think are the vast majority of us out here).

[Scribbler]

My experience has been that the French style jump saddles with thin foam panels and carbon plastic trees are lighter than wool flocked saddles with wooden trees. I thought that was the point. Of course there may be variations between models and brands.

[clanter]

@Mountain_Trails

Western saddles can weight 40-50 lbs and nobody ever talks about back issues because of them.

our horse sure knew, she would kind of roll her eyes upon seeing that 50 pound show saddle, she liked her synthetic western trail saddle, it only weighed 17 pounds

[Mountain_Trails]

@Scribbler

My experience has been that the French style jump saddles with thin foam panels and carbon plastic trees are lighter than wool flocked saddles with wooden trees. I thought that was the point. Of course there may be variations between models and brands.

I’m sure that’s what she meant. I was just sort of like, wait a minute, how heavy can an English saddle be?

[Mountain_Trails]

@clanter

our horse sure knew, she would kind of roll her eyes upon seeing that 50 pound show saddle, she liked her synthetic western trail saddle, it only weighed 17 pounds

I bet! I used to try to find lightweight western saddles but they never seemed to fit my horses right, so finally I gave up and just bought some ranch-type ropers. They might be heavy, but that’s their only weakness.

[clanter]

as for child’s saddles we found most at national or large regional competitions. We as a family showed the horses fairly extensively so knew a lot of the other families who were doing the same. It was easy to then to try the tack on the horse and see if was workable.

Our kids started riding and showing at a young age, the youngest was four and she knew how to handle a double bridle. The problem we had she won her first class in a class of 23 so I believe she thought she should win them all. But she learned.