Saddles - Where to go from here?

[achcosuva]

My mom and I bought the most wonderful young warmblood mare 6 months ago (she is 6 years old). We bought a MW Detente dressage saddle when we got her after having a few on trial. She is very particular about her saddle and now we’re not even sure if the Detente is really something that will work in the long run. I’m not fond of its wide twist and feel like I can’t get my legs around the horse and it also climbs up her withers. We had an independent saddle fitter out and she suggested a Total Saddle Fit girth, but it made things worse. I emailed the TSF guy and he suggested changing my billet placement by rethreading the billets through the block, which I’ve done, and it’s better but not great. The saddle fitter also said she would need a wider saddle very soon. We’re considering selling the Detente and going custom, though that is terrifying in itself, and something we can’t afford unless we sell the Detente.

Now I’m also looking for a jumping saddle, but we’re not really eventers, I just want to do some cross-training to support our dressage. The jumping saddles I usually use when I ride horses around the barn are not fitting, and as I said before, Maresy is very picky about her saddle. Because we’re not really jumpers, I’d love to stay in a very reasonable price range around $1,000 but it seems like jumping saddle prices have tripled since my last close contact purchased. I guess I will have to increase the price range, but I’d like to stay as low as possible!

Also, I have obnoxiously long femurs. I am 5’10" and mostly thighbone - the saddle fitter measured my femur at 24", though I would measure myself more at 21". One saddle lady I saw at Rolex told me “Oh, you have an expensive body!”. That is sure a way to put it! I do love Prestige saddles, but they are too curvy for the mare. I even found a perfect (for me!) 18" Prestige Venezia used at the tack store for a great price, but the tree was too curvy for my mare.

In my saddle shopping I’m feeling like I don’t even know what to look for. Does anyone have any suggestions on brands? I am not a leather snob or a brand elitist, I just want two saddles that fit us both! The mare has rejected a Kieffer (bridging), a Black Country (didn’t move well), a Bates (swishing tail), many Stubbens (rocked on horse, chair seat for rider), a Courbette close contact (too low on withers), a Prestige Venezia (too curvy and too narrow, didn’t make panel contact in the back), and a Wintec close contact (too low on withers, I think).

Here is a ink to a dropbox folder with pictures, tracings, and several saddles: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/h525fsreb5j9kgw/AAAKE7Zy6dOYk3cKG9qDbs4Ya?dl=0

ETA: The saddle fitter recommended an Amerigo Vega for her jump saddle, but I haven’t found any used 18" for less than $2400. I also sat in an Amerigo CC at Rolex and the flap was not long/forward enough for my thigh. I don’t see any Amerigos out on the market with long/forward. The rep at Rolex thought my mare would need a Medium CC tree Amerigo (I brought my tracings with me).

Thanks in advance to you dedicated saddlers and armchair saddlers out there, you are much appreciated for the wealth of knowledge you bring to COTH! This is not my first saddle fit thread and I do appreciate the time you give to this!

[jaybird660]

I’m not sure I’m understanding. Did the fitter that rejected the listed saddles watch you ride as I got the impression that was at Rolex. Curious at to which models of those saddles you tried. I don’t think your horse looks that complicated but would likely need some depth of panel in the front so allow for freedom of movement. The tricky part is finding a saddle with a forward flap in a seat size right for you. There are used saddle with forward flaps but less so in the 1000.00 range.

I also think your horse will fill out some, being a WB and become a little bit less angular although one has to fit what is in front of them at the time.

[achcosuva]

Jay, sorry that was confusing - the mare herself was unhappy with the saddles. Those were all saddles that I’ve tried on the horse and ridden in. The independent saddle fitter saw the Detente dressage saddle and the Courbette jumping saddle in person and watched me ride in the Detente - we did not ride in the Courbette as it was too low on the back of her withers. The Stubben rep also noted that her saddles did not work as they rocked and moved too much.

Models of the saddles we’ve tried on her back: Kieffer Lech Pro, Black Country Eloquence, Bates dressage I don’t remember name, 6 different Stubben models, the Courbette is an older hunt model I don’t remember the name, Prestige Venezia, and the Wintec jumping saddle about 10 years old.

[jaybird660]

Your horse isn’t particularly curvy but isn’t completely flat with a little dip behind he wither. When trying saddles, some often have standard type panels or have gusseted or non gusseted panels, full front gussets or not so all of those things make a difference in how the saddle fits. Then, if your horse has any asymmetry, the saddle can shift slightly across the back and even if a good fit in general, some horses will object to that happening. Moreover, the gullet channel of some saddles vary widely and billet positioning adds to the comfort and fit for the horse. So, it’s hard to judge by the names of some without knowing the particulars.

[snowrider]

As a fellow tall person I can say all of those saddles are too small for you. They are pushing your knee and lower leg back in every photo. I’m taller than you so I feel your pain but don’t buy a saddle that barely fits in the flap standing still. You’ll regret it. Or buy a plain flap jumping saddle and let your knee hang over the front for a while until your horse is done growing, them look for a semi custom or custom.

[no.stirrups]

What a lovely horse! A lot of your observations could be caused by the saddle being the wrong size. For example, bridging most often happens when the tree is too narrow, and the Black Country pictures look to me like a classic tree, when a Freedom Tree (hoop) might be more appropriate. Sliding forward is what saddles tend to do when they are too narrow. Too low on withers could be wrong size or flocking, and a swishing tail could easily be resolved with proper flocking. I’d be careful about writing off entire brands just because you tried one saddle that didn’t work.

Having a fitter bring a number of saddles from one or more brands would enable you to explore more thoroughly which features work or don’t for you and your horse. If you didn’t figure out what you needed at that time, you would at least know what to look for.

[achcosuva]

[QUOTE=no.stirrups;8667490]

Having a fitter bring a number of saddles from one or more brands would enable you to explore more thoroughly which features work or don’t for you and your horse. If you didn’t figure out what you needed at that time, you would at least know what to look for.[/QUOTE]
I would love to have that, but unfortunately the independent saddle fitter we can get to travel in does not sell saddles. I did manage to get a Stubben rep to come in and I’m trying to get a County rep, but she has cancelled once and seems reticent to commit to another date (she lives a state over and I think is trying to map out a trip when she has several promising customers in this direction). At this point, I am looking to order in saddles on trial, but I don’t even know what to order in. Shipping saddles back and forth is so expensive that I am reluctant to pull the trigger on saddles when I have no idea if they would work. I need to just buy a truck and trailer, pack up my girl, and head East - not on a show circuit, but on a saddlery circuit!

I don’t think I’m writing off complete brands - Black Country is one of the brands we’ve considered trying to get in for a custom dressage saddle; I just was trying to provide as much information as possible. Perhaps too much! The two brands I have written off are Stubben and Prestige. Stubben because none of many styles we tried fit either the horse or myself. Prestige because I know them as a curvy-backed brand (I owned 2 for a more curvy TB in my past) and I did try one that was - as I suspected - way too curvy. If you know of a less-curvy Prestige model I will absolutely give it a try, forget the budget! I’ve loved the balance of all the Prestiges I’ve ridden in.

[jaybird660]

I must have missed the saddle photos. I will need to review when I have more time but one thing I noticed was the size difference in the shoulders and that at least one saddle was too far forward.

[jaybird660]

Additionally, the BC showed dry spots or at least on one side. One side I had a hard time seeing anything. Do you know what kind of panel it had? I did notice the wither gussets sat a tad high and I’m wondering if it was a little too tight and with the asymmetry, putting more pressure on one side and when in motion, pulling the saddle across the spine slightly. I also had a question about the length as it looked like there was a shadow that might indicate the last rib and if so, intersecting the saddle forward of the rear of the panel. However, that is speculation as I can’t be sure in the photo.

The Detente looked to far forward for one thing.

[achcosuva]

[QUOTE=jaybird660;8668502]
Additionally, the BC showed dry spots or at least on one side. One side I had a hard time seeing anything. Do you know what kind of panel it had? I did notice the wither gussets sat a tad high and I’m wondering if it was a little too tight and with the asymmetry, putting more pressure on one side and when in motion, pulling the saddle across the spine slightly. I also had a question about the length as it looked like there was a shadow that might indicate the last rib and if so, intersecting the saddle forward of the rear of the panel. However, that is speculation as I can’t be sure in the photo.

The Detente looked to far forward for one thing.[/QUOTE]
I can’t remember the panels on the Black Country. It was an Eloquence that we tried from your shop, actually. I know it had wither gussets. She does have an asymmetrical back that is getting better since we’ve had her, but still crooked. I actually just read the piece in the Dressage Today May edition about fitting asymmetrical horses, but I must admit it left me more uncertain than ever. The article was an excerpt from the book by the Schleese saddler.

The forwardness of the Detente is what we’re struggling with - it won’t sit further back and I don’t like how it is on her shoulder. I did move the billet from coming diagonally under the block to come out directly down the block on the recommendation of the Total Saddle Fit girth guy, and it has helped a little bit but not much.

[snowrider]

Try an Albion? They’re pretty flat front to back. You’ll need the short blocks, which I think are the platinum slk. I can ride in that saddle.

[LadyB]

Try Prestige, you can get a +4.

The bigger the seat the more flap you get as well. I love my Prestige saddles. I’ve had nothing but great success with their fittings.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/taylor_blitz/Capture_zpsi3si61ov.png

This is a 17" +4 flap Prestige Passion D.
If you get an 18" you get more forward flap and a longer flap as well.

This will show you what you get with each seat size. http://www.prestigeitaly.com/page.asp?menu=custom&LAN=ENG

The saddles have a lifetime warranty tree, you can find used ones for a very good price, but brand new they are an amazing price too. Great quality saddle!

[ZIL]

Can you trailer to a big show? Then you will have the chance to try out multiple models, and perhaps take some home for trial.