Saddleseat Myths...haters need to read this.

[QUOTE=Lilykoi;7407788]
I had two saddlebreds when I was a kid. Kept them both till the day they died.
They were terrifically versatile and willing horses. I started out showing pleasure and three gaited. My three gaited mare was plain shod and she won. Her motion was all natural. Wanted to go hunting with a friend. She had never jumped a fence in her life, but tally ho and she jumped everything in front of her on the hunt. Yes, her tail was set, but she only wore the set a day before the show, not all the time. Both horses were turned out. Jumped and evented my gelding when I got bored of showing pleasure. They really are nice horses, not much different from thoroughbreds in their personality. Just like any breed, they shine if you let them.[/QUOTE]

This is lovely; thank you for sharing your experience. I would love for most Saddlebreds to go back to this type of lifestyle.

I love Saddlebred dispositions. We don’t see enough of them doing disciplines outside of SS tack. Some may not have the structure for other disciplines, but they certainly have the brains.

Sunridge1:
Broken sounds like some guy did it with a mallet, cut is more precise sounding, but the OP used the euphemism “nick”, and claimed that even that didn’t happen any more. Well, possibly at the better barns the tendons are stretched and massaged but that sure takes a long time.

They are a pretty willing animal that they put up with all that we do to them.

While this site is for a slightly different breed today, at the time period of the Hatfield photo, this Kentucky Saddler would have been absolutely the type of horse that moved into the Saddlebred registry if the owner chose.
http://www.kmsha.com/magazine/archives/12_int/mag_feature2.htm

The hooves are not small; the horse would have been expected to go all day as needed, using gaits comfortable to the rider.

Showing in high level competition today with all the bells and whistles is just one niche the Saddle seat type horse can fill.

Just for fun, look at the straight head (pommel) on this old plantation saddle compared to today’s cutback.
http://horsetackandsaddle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/201446-375x500.jpg

Not a farrier but did work with one…

Some of the new Saddlebreds I saw that came into the barn where we worked had feet that were way too long. I’m talking just the horn itself, not the total package. I can’t say what was going through those farriers’ minds. After you get past the optimal length, they often start to distort sideways. The high heels causes contraction and deep heel sulcus thrush. It’s harder to keep the whole package attached to a foot with a long and weak wall. A Saddlebred moves best when it is SOUND. Unlike a big lick TWH. A well balanced hoof moves better than a long week one causing heel pain and mechanical separation of the hoof wall. Since the class restrictions are based on total length (hoof plus pads) I don’t know why they didn’t trim the hoof correctly and add another pad if they wanted the height. Cost? Maybe someone else can clarify the showing rules.

As far as worst neglect… we were called in to address a quarter crack on a Mennonite road horse. His feet were way too long… the family didn’t have much money, that was obvious, but they were genuinely concerned for their horse. It was a younger couple. I was looking at their other horse that was in a makeshift paddock in the yard eating grass and it looked like the guy had nailed a lost shoe back on himself. The hooves were overgrown by at least 3 months so it was this tiny shoe on a huge over grown foot, but what was worst was that he hadn’t finished off the nails AT ALL. They were sticking straight up out of the hoof wall ready to cut his other leg to pieces. I didn’t want to make it obvious, but I carefully bent them over with the side of my shoe to keep him from gouging himself. I assume he was going to call a cheaper farrier to work on that horse.

OP, vet wrap is not used to “set” a tail. Vet wrap destroys the feathers, a major no no with Saddlebreds, stable bandages are used to keep tail up when horse is working, tailsets are what is used to keep tail in form, and great care is taken with those so horse is comfortable. If anyone is using vet wrap on tail of a show horse, well, all I can say is they don’t know anything at all about the care of horses of this breed. And most don’t have to have a tongue tied either.

The breed is naturally animated, and high headed. Action is high from birth, and the old saying “the good ones go light” is still very true. They wear nothing more than a keg shoe, same as a QH does.

As for these horses not getting ridden in “natural setting”, every year at Queeny Park, several of ours were taken out and ridden on the trails, and not talking about Country Pleasure horses, but the Open horses. Did just fine, and enjoyed themselves immensely too. Many old trainers also worked outside, but as times have changed, and land has been bought up, land has gotten to be a premium, and ring or barn work is usually done.

The chains used range from the extremely lightweight plastic chains used to hang flowerpots, that is sold by the foot, to ones around 5 oz, give or take. And are not worn in shows. They also use bracelets of leather, like a rolled dog collar, or wooden beads. The motion of those encourages higher stepping. They are not weight training devices, but action devices.

And rarely are they left on long either, as trainer will have groom pull them when changing gaits.

The stretchers are a resistance device, and again are not used long. They also break very easily.

Blinker/blinder hoods are to get horse to focus, and pay attention. Some are only 1/2, 1/4, full with pinhole, just depends on what horse needs. Some horses never wear them. Trainer will let horse decide what it needs.

As for barns being dark, in summer much of that has to do with heat from the bulbs, some barns have lights in each stall, some have a row of lights over them.

Some of it is cost of electricity too.

These horses, by and large, stay sound well into their 20’s, and very fit. They are great personalities to work with, and very entertaining as well. One on my string, liked a 10am nap, and a 2pm nap. So he was worked around those. You could hear him snoring throughout the whole barn. Fully stretched out, he also loved Coca Cola Chapstick, Cherry not so much.

They also enjoy a varied work routine, turnout one day, jog to cart one day, jog under saddle, full workout, handwalk, and harder workout to cart. Some variation considering where horse was in training, and how horse was going.

Like anything, things change. And the saddest day for me was when I saw the “speed rackers” buy up Saddlebreds and ruin them. Some of those scumbags have gotten into “saddlebred training”…and I DO use the term loosely, as they are nothing more than racking horse trash which is no better than big lick trash.

And they have brought their cruelty with them.

Too, some will see something done and not understand the why of it, and do it. Witness the morons who see the “oh let’s roundpen for join up” and are still chasing their horses around the pen 3 hours later.

These horses love to perform, nothing more exciting to them than to hear the crowd. And yet these same horses will be led back to barn through crowds of people so thick that horse was literally brushing shoulders with them, and they never blinked an eye, nor turned an ear.

Here, ride along with Melissa and Melissa Moore, along with several others at the WCHS in the 5 Gaited Stakes class, in Louisville KY…set back and let 'er rack!

http://longlist.org/play.php?videoId=JXys9q7y8_c

NOTE: When the riders hands come further apart, they are racking at that point, horse’s neck moves differently too. And the grooms come in and have to strip horses for the judges and horses are judged on conformation, the boots you see are to keep horses from hitting heels of front hooves, at the rack.

Watching this makes me wish I could send one in the ring just one more time.

Belle Beach, that was an awesome and informative post. Thanks for sharing.

[QUOTE=Belle Beach;7412827]

NOTE: When the riders hands come further apart, they are racking at that point, horse’s neck moves differently too. [/QUOTE]

Add: having the reins off the neck is part of the cue to rack to help the horse differentiate between the gaits.

I’ve just read all the posts about shoeing. I repeat, the three gaited junior horse champion at Kentucky this year was barefoot. Horses move the way they move - you can enhance it with training and shoeing, but it’s bred into them.

Also, as for long feet, I haven’t seen many saddlebreds with long feet. If you pull the shoes, the feet look exactly the same as all the A Circuit Hunters I’ve owned. The long toed horses I’ve seen are the Big Lick Tennessee Walkers.

As for tails, 1) they aren’t ever in a tail set until a couple of days before a horse show. 2) I can’t even tell half of the time if they had a ‘done’ tail, as they carry and use them naturally.

As for the people who have seen damage - well, I’ve seen damage in every discipline you can ride. It happens with bad handling and lack of knowledge. It’s generally not the norm.

And for the poster who commented that the saddlebreds she saw were kept in dark barns? Must have been at River’s Edge, as (in an article on his truly gorgeous barn in the Chronicle) Scott Stewart says he keeps the stalls away from the ready rooms and arenas, and they are dark and quiet so the horses can let down and rest. Funny, when I read that, I thought how considerate he was for the horses. And I still do. But given how the poster who commented about the dark barn the saddlebreds were kept in, how easily that sentence can be misconstruded. So the same type of restful, dim barn is “BAD” when used in context of a Saddleseat horse, but “GOOD” in a top hunter barn?!?

Context is always important. So get educated. Top horseman and horses are the same all across the disciplines.

[QUOTE=Thoroughbred1201;7413060]
I’ve just read all the posts about shoeing. I repeat, the three gaited junior horse champion at Kentucky this year was barefoot. [/QUOTE]

I think that’s awesome. I’ve seen videos of colts with the note “we haven’t even put shoes on him yet” and my first thought is Why would you even want to!!!?

[QUOTE=Thoroughbred1201;7413060]
I’ve just read all the posts about shoeing. I repeat, the three gaited junior horse champion at Kentucky this year was barefoot. Horses move the way they move - you can enhance it with training and shoeing, but it’s bred into them.

Also, as for long feet, I haven’t seen many saddlebreds with long feet. If you pull the shoes, the feet look exactly the same as all the A Circuit Hunters I’ve owned. The long toed horses I’ve seen are the Big Lick Tennessee Walkers.

As for tails, 1) they aren’t ever in a tail set until a couple of days before a horse show. 2) I can’t even tell half of the time if they had a ‘done’ tail, as they carry and use them naturally.

As for the people who have seen damage - well, I’ve seen damage in every discipline you can ride. It happens with bad handling and lack of knowledge. It’s generally not the norm.

And for the poster who commented that the saddlebreds she saw were kept in dark barns? Must have been at River’s Edge, as (in an article on his truly gorgeous barn in the Chronicle) Scott Stewart says he keeps the stalls away from the ready rooms and arenas, and they are dark and quiet so the horses can let down and rest. Funny, when I read that, I thought how considerate he was for the horses. And I still do. But given how the poster who commented about the dark barn the saddlebreds were kept in, how easily that sentence can be misconstruded. So the same type of restful, dim barn is “BAD” when used in context of a Saddleseat horse, but “GOOD” in a top hunter barn?!?

Context is always important. So get educated. Top horseman and horses are the same all across the disciplines.[/QUOTE]

Are you talking Rob Beyers horse? If so that horse was clearly not barefoot. http://www.howardschatzberg.com/Proofs%5C2013%20And%20Previous%20Horse%20Shows%5C2013%20Horse%20Shows%5C2013%20Kentucky%20State%20Fair%5CAUG%2022,%20THURSDAY%20-%20EVENING%5C165%20-%20Junior%20Three-Gaited%20Championship%5CImages%5C165-068-13KSF.JPG

[QUOTE=sunridge1;7413095]
Are you talking Rob Beyers horse? If so that horse was clearly not barefoot. http://www.howardschatzberg.com/Proofs%5C2013%20And%20Previous%20Horse%20Shows%5C2013%20Horse%20Shows%5C2013%20Kentucky%20State%20Fair%5CAUG%2022,%20THURSDAY%20-%20EVENING%5C165%20-%20Junior%20Three-Gaited%20Championship%5CImages%5C165-068-13KSF.JPG[/QUOTE]

Even that filly appears to not have a pad on which, in and of itself is a step in the right direction http://www.howardschatzberg.com/Proofs/2013%20And%20Previous%20Horse%20Shows/2013%20Horse%20Shows/2013%20Kentucky%20State%20Fair/AUG%2019,%20MONDAY%20-%20EVENING/057%20-%20Junior%20Three-Gaited%2015-2%20And%20Under/Images/057-063-13KSF-V.JPG

[QUOTE=Belle Beach;7412827]

http://longlist.org/play.php?videoId=JXys9q7y8_c

Watching this makes me wish I could send one in the ring just one more time.[/QUOTE]

I loved this video!

Love the video. Just wanted to say how impressed I was with the steadiness of the rider’s hands. I’d love to try saddleseat someday :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=sunridge1;7413095]
Are you talking Rob Beyers horse? If so that horse was clearly not barefoot. http://www.howardschatzberg.com/Proofs%5C2013%20And%20Previous%20Horse%20Shows%5C2013%20Horse%20Shows%5C2013%20Kentucky%20State%20Fair%5CAUG%2022,%20THURSDAY%20-%20EVENING%5C165%20-%20Junior%20Three-Gaited%20Championship%5CImages%5C165-068-13KSF.JPG[/QUOTE]

No, this one was black. The announcer made quite a point of saying it was barefoot during the victory lap. I’ll have to look it up. I may have the division wrong, but it was a young horse and I thought it was 3-gaited. I’ll double check.

[QUOTE=HeartsongHorses;7413177]
I loved this video![/QUOTE]

What a perspective. Incredible!

I am not positive, but I think it was Use Your Illusion, 3 year old 3 gaited winner, who had lost a shoe and they did not replace it (or lost it twice replaced it only once). Even in this picture, the shoe that is visible and the hoof length are not extreme: (scroll down for picture)
http://theamericansaddlebred.blogspot.com/2013/08/louisville-2013.html

Pretty sure you can only take one time out for a lost shoe.

I saw this class. Use Your Illusion was outstanding… and finished the 2nd direction and her victory pass with only one shoe. And her motion was pretty much perfectly even regardless. Here’s a good shot of her shoeless hoof.

https://howardschatzberg.com/dspProofImage.asp?width=1600&show=2013%20And%20Previous%20Horse%20Shows\2013%20Horse%20Shows\2013%20Kentucky%20State%20Fair\AUG%2022%2C%20THURSDAY%20-%20EVENING\174%20-%20Three-Year-Old%20Three-Gaited&image=174-090-13KSF-V.JPG

[QUOTE=Deuce;7413847]
Pretty sure you can only take one time out for a lost shoe.

I saw this class. Use Your Illusion was outstanding… and finished the 2nd direction and her victory pass with only one shoe. And her motion was pretty much perfectly even regardless. Here’s a good shot of her shoeless hoof.

https://howardschatzberg.com/dspProofImage.asp?width=1600&show=2013%20And%20Previous%20Horse%20Shows\2013%20Horse%20Shows\2013%20Kentucky%20State%20Fair\AUG%2022%2C%20THURSDAY%20-%20EVENING\174%20-%20Three-Year-Old%20Three-Gaited&image=174-090-13KSF-V.JPG[/QUOTE]

I saw that class too and agree–there was very little difference in the motion between the shod and unshod feet.

Both those horses–the one above and Rob Byers’–show a typical looking foot in my experience. I have occasionally seen longer feet–not saying that it doesn’t exist, but I personally consider it sub-par/undesirable/not what you would see in a top training barn. These are examples of top horses and top trainers.

I have a country pleasure horse that goes comfortably above level … take a good look at her feet:
http://www.dougshiflet.com/dspProofImage.asp?width=1115&show=2012%20And%20Previous%20Horse%20Shows\2012%20Horse%20Shows\2012%20Kentucky%20Fall%20Classic\Wednesday\010%20-%20Adult%20English%20Country%20Pleasure&image=010-054-KF12.JPG&view=enlarge
As per the class rules, nothing but a minimal plate on her feet.

After scrolling through all her pictures. She looked to have more reach with the barefoot. That’s what I like.
https://howardschatzberg.com/Proofs%5C2013%20And%20Previous%20Horse%20Shows%5C2013%20Horse%20Shows%5C2013%20Kentucky%20State%20Fair%5CAUG%2022,%20THURSDAY%20-%20EVENING%5C174%20-%20Three-Year-Old%20Three-Gaited%5CImages%5C174-184-13KSF.JPG