Safe Sport sprouts Teeth! USEF has a Banned List

[mvp]

@MistyPony

*Michigan State University not the University of Michigan

Oh, my! Thank you for the correction. I will fix my post right meow!

[mvp]

@Gardenhorse

I actually think that banning Jimmy Williams is a positive signal that they will look into accusations about events that happened years ago if they are credible and corroborated by multiple accounts. A lot of people on the “me too” threads have talked about things that happened to them years ago that they didn’t report because they were young, unsure of themselves, in a situation of depending on the person in some way, had no one to report it to, etc. I’m guessing that most of those perpetrators didn’t stop their actions, so perhaps reporting it to USEF now will allow USEF to do an investigation and perhaps find more current evidence/corroboration to allow them to take action.

Good point, I hadn’t thought of the symbolic value of banning someone posthumously in this light. Thank you.

[mvp]

@Bristol Bay

If pretty much anyone can hang a shingle and declare themselves a trainer, what does this list do to protect people? Do the average parents of horse crazy girls know to do a search for the Safe Sport list?

Insofar as it exists and was created by the governing body of the sport-- the closest thing we have to the regulation of this industry-- these parents have a better shot of making informed decisions than they have ever had before.

The issue of whether or not the Banned List can be accessed is different than the one about what it means for the USEF to create it.

[Jumphigh83]

What will the Federation do to protect people from false allegations?

[merrygoround]

I suspect that the list is far too short. I hope that the existence of the list will encourage those who need to do so will come forth and present pertinent information.

[ladyj79]

@Jumphigh83

What will the Federation do to protect people from false allegations?

You should contact the federation to ask what their criteria is for placing someone on the list. I’m sure you are aware that not letting someone participate in the organization doesn’t require criminal findings, in the same way that any other group can choose to limit their membership. I doubt you’ll find much pushback from those not immediately effected, and I doubt you’ll find many civil rights attorneys wanting to fight for the rights of accused (or convicted) sleezebags to join the elite horsey club.

[Jodyml813]

Here’s the info on Ken Acebal. He is also a registered sex offender.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/georgia-dressage-rider-arrested-drug-indecency-charges&ved=2ahUKEwjuq9T_q5XbAhVH7VMKHQCUDL0QFjACegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw0_Tzo7M1JQWhjnVb9ch0kg

[mvp]

@OneTwoMany

I have to imagine we’ll hear more from the USEF over time. They have to be judicious with their bans; i.e. make sure they have an iron-clad case and hold the appropriate hearings. No one would want them to leave the door open to the possibility of a defamation lawsuit.

Definitely a step in the right direction.

Exactly. I don’t remember reading what the USE’s criteria are for gaining a spot on that list. But of course they have 'em! Any lawyer who graduated from second grade (or any third grader who was not a lawyer) would know about the risk of that defamation lawsuit. If you read the statement about Cates, linked above, it specifies the kind of evidence behind the USE’s certainty that Randall Cates had systematically pursued minors for sexual relationships.

[Peggy]

Hopefully the USE records will be added here. It’s where a parent newcto a sport might be likelier to look as it potentially includes all sports.

https://safesport.org/files/index/tag/disciplinary-records

[APirateLooksAtForty]

I believe that Barry Duncan is the current barn manager for Ernie and Betty Oare. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

[Bambam89]

That is correct. In fact he was at a horse show this past weekend. Registered sex offender in VA and Maryland. I can’t even begin to get started on this. He was an employee of EMO when the incident occurred in 2004.

[mroades]

well…and the banning of PV did so much to hurt his business <rolls eyes so hard it hurts>

[gottagrey]

@APirateLooksAtForty

I believe that Barry Duncan is the current barn manager for Ernie and Betty Oare. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

His name is familiar to me as he taught at couple of riding stables around me. At the time he was around me, there was some scuttlebutt about him but I seem to recall that his offense was one of the more minor offenses but still had to be listed on the register. He was/is the SO of a friend of a friend. I will say when he was teaching around here I never saw anything that would make you raise your eyebrows, and at that time there were a couple of trainers who it was so obvious you wondered if they were that stupid… at least they married the girl, now woman, clients.

[lucegoose]

@Bristol Bay

If pretty much anyone can hang a shingle and declare themselves a trainer, what does this list do to protect people? Do the average parents of horse crazy girls know to do a search for the Safe Sport list?

I’m happy to see JW’s name on there, even though it’s symbolic. I was a member of Flintridge, and I knew Lisa Kursinski and Marcia Williams (still do). The stories about him have been swirling around for years.

I think a long-range goal is for USE to become a more accessible resource for newcomers to the sport. Isn’t that what the rebranding, fan memberships, etc working toward? I doubt that they will ever enact any sort of licensing/certification for professionals though.

And the fact that SafeSport is involved with different sports organizations means parents are more likely to become aware of it. I agree that USE needs to put their findings/list on the main site as well.

[shedllybip]

What about the other people who were suspended temporarily for child ‘endangerment’?

[BITSA]

@gottagrey

His name is familiar to me as he taught at couple of riding stables around me. At the time he was around me, there was some scuttlebutt about him but I seem to recall that his offense was one of the more minor offenses but still had to be listed on the register. He was/is the SO of a friend of a friend. I will say when he was teaching around here I never saw anything that would make you raise your eyebrows, and at that time there were a couple of trainers who it was so obvious you wondered if they were that stupid… at least they married the girl, now woman, clients.

According to the Virginia State Police Registry, he violated this statute (a felony)–I wouldnt let him near my daughter:
[h=2]§ 18.2-63. Carnal knowledge of child between thirteen and fifteen years of age.[/h] A. If any person carnally knows, without the use of force, a child thirteen years of age or older but under fifteen years of age, such person shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony.

B. If any person carnally knows, without the use of force, a child thirteen years of age or older but under fifteen years of age who consents to sexual intercourse and the accused is a minor and such consenting child is three years or more the accused’s junior, the accused shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. If such consenting child is less than three years the accused’s junior, the accused shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

In calculating whether such child is three years or more a junior of the accused minor, the actual dates of birth of the child and the accused, respectively, shall be used.

C. For the purposes of this section, (i) a child under the age of thirteen years shall not be considered a consenting child and (ii) “carnal knowledge” includes the acts of sexual intercourse, cunnilingus, fellatio, anilingus, anal intercourse, and animate and inanimate object sexual penetration.

[gottagrey]

@BITSA

According to the Virginia State Police Registry, he violated this statute (a felony)–I wouldnt let him near my daughter:
[h=2]§ 18.2-63. Carnal knowledge of child between thirteen and fifteen years of age.[/h] A. If any person carnally knows, without the use of force, a child thirteen years of age or older but under fifteen years of age, such person shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony.

B. If any person carnally knows, without the use of force, a child thirteen years of age or older but under fifteen years of age who consents to sexual intercourse and the accused is a minor and such consenting child is three years or more the accused’s junior, the accused shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. If such consenting child is less than three years the accused’s junior, the accused shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

In calculating whether such child is three years or more a junior of the accused minor, the actual dates of birth of the child and the accused, respectively, shall be used.

C. For the purposes of this section, (i) a child under the age of thirteen years shall not be considered a consenting child and (ii) “carnal knowledge” includes the acts of sexual intercourse, cunnilingus, fellatio, anilingus, anal intercourse, and animate and inanimate object sexual penetration.

I thought he was a Class 4? but that was a long time ago, I agree wouldn’t want him around period. I know one of the barns he was teaching at lost quite a few clients when he showed up. It was prob about 15 years or so ago. I’ve seen him around from time to time, most recent was a few years ago at one of the hunt races/steeplechases.

What is flipping scary is so often these people don’t look creepy at all. I had a good friend who told me about a friend /former boss who was coming to visit and how great this guy was blah blah. So we all had dinner and I thought yeah great guy, funny kind etc. After the visit friend shared more info about his friend/former boss. My friend, Ross, worked for him delivery flowers for his floral business. Man was married, had kids and “pillar of the community” And oh it was so much fun cause every summer his wife would take off on some charity nursing thing so he’d invite Ross and some other local boys over for a pool party. It was a real eye opener, my “creep” radar didn’t go off, how could I possibly think this guy was a good guy? And then you try not to think/but think about how many other “pillar of the community” may be like him out there.

[findeight]

Always remember Ted Bundy was one good looking young guy and quite a charmer when he was getting started.

And the rate of recidivism (repeating) is higher in sexual predators and pedophiles then most other types of offenses.

[Lord_Helpus]

Is there an actual difference between being banned v. being suspended for life? It seems to be a matter of semantics to me.

Do we even know why the USEF stopped making the list of suspended people available to all members?

[MHM]

@Lord Helpus

Is there an actual difference between being banned v. being suspended for life? It seems to be a matter of semantics to me.

Do we even know why the USEF stopped making the list of suspended people available to all members?

You can still find the suspensions on the search page. It looks like you can sort them by category.

https://www.usef.org/compete/resources-forms/rules-regulations/suspension-list