Safe Sport sprouts Teeth! USEF has a Banned List

[mvp]

Wow… the wheels of justice skip a couple of gears and start to grind quite fast when the political climate is right.

Look how fast the USEF went from posthumously demoting Jimmy Williams to this list (where he still gets nailed… posthumously):

https://www.usef.org/compete/resourc…)&utm_content=

The link from an e-mail sent to me as a USEF member about the Safe Sport-related changing they are instituting. Perhaps some of you guys have seen it as well.

In news closer to home, read COTH’s new statement on “naming names”— so long as you give yours and have first-hand knowledge.

Good and very surprising! What do you think?

[Two_Lea]

Yes, good . . . in a way.

But absurd (and wrong) to list someone as “banned” when he has been dead for 25 years. I seriously doubt Williams has any plans of showing up at a competition or doing any training.

Consider this: is the USEF suggesting that someone can be put on this “banned” list based on accusations alone? Without a meaningful investigation?

If that’s the case, let’s start naming names of the living who are automatically guilty upon accusation and put those names up there, too. RIGHT NOW. That would be real “teeth.” And would mean something.

[buschkn]

Where is the COTH statement?

[findeight]

About dam time. And since it’s for criminal misconduct too, don’t see PV on these.

[mvp]

@buschkn

Where is the COTH statement?

At the top of the pages for most of the fora. Look around for a headline in all caps about “Criminal Allegations.”

[mvp]

Two Lea and Fighteight have made the right point.

What I mean is, “Just how sharp and effective are these offered teeth?” is a current and important question. To put dead guys on it… or some of them but not others calls into question the purpose and efficacy of that list of banned people. Is this list largely symbolic or is it meant to actually do some real work in preventing further harm?

It does seem relevant just now as caught-red-handed institutions like the Weinstein Company and the University of Michigan are now in the process of figuring out how to pay judgments or settlements to victims and just where that money should come from. The attempt to sell the Weinstein Company with no provision made for paying out settlements is deplorable. And the Michigan State University (employer/enabler of infamous Larry Nasser) had better not use a nickle of tuition money to pay their $500 million judgement (as is contemplated in The Chronicle of Higher Education this week.)

See what I mean? You have to put some teeth behind the currenty-required lip-service one would pay to protecting victims of sexual assault, or, IMO, it’s not good enough.

[MistyPony]

@mvp

Two Lea and Fighteight have made the right point.
It does seem relevant just now as caught-red-handed institutions like the Weinstein Company and the University of Michigan are now in the process of figuring out how to pay judgments or settlements to victims and just where that money should come from.

*Michigan State University not the University of Michigan

[findeight]

@Two Lea

Yes, good . . . in a way.

But absurd (and wrong) to list someone as “banned” when he has been dead for 25 years. I seriously doubt Williams has any plans of showing up at a competition or doing any training.

Consider this: is the USEF suggesting that someone can be put on this “banned” list based on accusations alone? Without a meaningful investigation?

If that’s the case, let’s start naming names of the living who are automatically guilty upon accusation and put those names up there, too. RIGHT NOW. That would be real “teeth.” And would mean something.

.Oddly, going to agree, not sure the name of anybody long dead is going to help with the larger issue of transparency but the list itself is long overdue and for that I applaud them.

[Gardenhorse]

I actually think that banning Jimmy Williams is a positive signal that they will look into accusations about events that happened years ago if they are credible and corroborated by multiple accounts. A lot of people on the “me too” threads have talked about things that happened to them years ago that they didn’t report because they were young, unsure of themselves, in a situation of depending on the person in some way, had no one to report it to, etc. I’m guessing that most of those perpetrators didn’t stop their actions, so perhaps reporting it to USEF now will allow USEF to do an investigation and perhaps find more current evidence/corroboration to allow them to take action.

[bugsynskeeter]

I think the banning of Jimmy Williams is very symbolic and I applaud USEF for doing it.

[vxf111]

So they only banned 4 people and one of them is dead. I’m confused… did they get tips or why those 4 people? I guess I’m just not understanding where this list came from. Did they somehow know to run those members’ criminal backgrounds?

[findeight]

@vxf111

So they only banned 4 people and one of them is dead. I’m confused… did they get tips or why those 4 people? I guess I’m just not understanding where this list came from. Did they somehow know to run those members’ criminal backgrounds?

One, Cates IIRC, is in prison, not familiar with the others. Another one I’d like to see on there was convicted of criminal conduct and should have been banned for life instead of put on indefinite suspension (Or was last time I looked). He should be on there.

[Gardenhorse]

@vxf111

So they only banned 4 people and one of them is dead. I’m confused… did they get tips or why those 4 people? I guess I’m just not understanding where this list came from. Did they somehow know to run those members’ criminal backgrounds?

I don’t know about the others, but here is USEF’s statement about Cates.
https://www.usef.org/content/documents/rulings/CatesPenaltyPublication.pdf

[MHM]

@findeight

Another one I’d like to see on there was convicted of criminal conduct and should have been banned for life instead of put on indefinite suspension

As I recall, there was an issue about twenty years ago when they realized they did not have a USEF (then AHSA) rule on the books to implement a lifetime ban. Only suspensions.

Clearly, that situation has been rectified.

[OneTwoMany]

@mvp

The attempt to sell the Weinstein Company with no provision made for paying out settlements is deplorable.

I’ll admit I’m not an expert on the topic but I believe the investor group that was looking to purchase the Weinstein Company did propose setting funds aside for settlements. Of course when the amounts of the future settlements are yet to be determined there will be arguments on both sides about what that amount should be.

[OneTwoMany]

@vxf111

So they only banned 4 people and one of them is dead. I’m confused… did they get tips or why those 4 people? I guess I’m just not understanding where this list came from. Did they somehow know to run those members’ criminal backgrounds?

I have to imagine we’ll hear more from the USEF over time. They have to be judicious with their bans; i.e. make sure they have an iron-clad case and hold the appropriate hearings. No one would want them to leave the door open to the possibility of a defamation lawsuit.

Definitely a step in the right direction.

[Dana]

@findeight

One, Cates IIRC, is in prison, not familiar with the others. Another one I’d like to see on there was convicted of criminal conduct and should have been banned for life instead of put on indefinite suspension (Or was last time I looked). He should be on there.

To the best of my knowledge, Randall Cates is NOT in prison. I don’t believe he was ever arrested or charged with any crime in the State of Oklahoma. His barn still seems to be up and running, giving lessons, summer camps and attending horse shows that aren’t USEF approved. At one point, there was a FB page outlining his side of the story, but it’s since been removed.

[findeight]

@MHM

As I recall, there was an issue about twenty years ago when they realized they did not have a USEF (then AHSA) rule on the books to implement a lifetime ban. Only suspensions.

Clearly, that situation has been rectified.

That would have been about 25 years ago trying to sort AHSA penalties for hiring a hit man to kill horses for insurance. Haven’t seen any updates indicating anybody went retroactively from indefinite suspension to lifetime ban.

[Bristol_Bay]

If pretty much anyone can hang a shingle and declare themselves a trainer, what does this list do to protect people? Do the average parents of horse crazy girls know to do a search for the Safe Sport list?

I’m happy to see JW’s name on there, even though it’s symbolic. I was a member of Flintridge, and I knew Lisa Kursinski and Marcia Williams (still do). The stories about him have been swirling around for years.

[ladyj79]

The placement of someone like Jimmie Williams is for the victims, it is vindication and demonstration that they have at last been heard and their national federation has finally done what it should have done.

It’s also a very clear warning, I hope, and a symbol that no one will be protected.

I’m glad to see it there, and I hope the federation continues to pursue and highlight these issues.