Safesport in the wake of the Barisone Verdict: Weaponization and Inconsistent Standards

[Fat_Dinah]

But under my example, the sex offender would not be convicted either, so why did you say inclusion of a minor would mean SafeSport going ahead?

[Knights_Mom]

@Fat_Dinah

You can argue not guilty by reason of insanity based on irresistible impulses, arguing that you should not be found criminally liable for our actions because you could not control those actions, even if knowing they were wrong.
One of the defendants in the current sexual assault of a minor in criminal and SafeSport cases, could offer that defense. Claim could be based on mental illness, their own sexual abuse, porn addiction, sex addictio n. Maybe a lawyer could convince a jury.
If one of them was found NGRI, should SafeSport find him not guilty and drop their case and a ban?

I’m hoping you don’t actually believe the mumbo jumbo of letters strung together in an attempt to say something valid.

It’s ridiculous thinking.

[RND]

@BigMama1

Oh the irony

Turns out I’m right so that’s all you’ve got. I expected no better from you!

[Knights_Mom]

@RND

@BigMama1

Oh the irony

Turns out I’m right so that’s all you’ve got. I expected no better from you!

It’s old. Give it up.

[Fat_Dinah]

Or maybe renting to students since he never shot his assistant trainer.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Knights_Mom

I’m hoping you don’t actually believe the mumbo jumbo of letters strung together in an attempt to say something valid.

It’s ridiculous thinking

Maybe she just wants to imply that a jury finding someone NGI in a criminal matter happens more frequently than it actually does.

I can understand if someone was really invested in the outcome of Barisone’s case the way Dinah was, and confident he would be found guilty the way Dinah was… well… they might want to try and reframe the verdict.

It’s strange though… why not just acknowledge that there were obvious credibility problems with the prosecution’s key witnesses?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Ghazzu

Better to ban him from renting housing since that is the context of the shooting.

Minor point of order. He didn’t actually rent them the housing. They weren’t paying him any rent, and there was no contract.

So they weren’t really actually renters, in the normal sense of the word. They were closer to squatters.

[Knights_Mom]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@Knights_Mom

I’m hoping you don’t actually believe the mumbo jumbo of letters strung together in an attempt to say something valid.

It’s ridiculous thinking

Maybe she just wants to imply that a jury finding someone NGI in a criminal matter happens more frequently than it actually does.

I can understand if someone was really invested in the outcome of Barisone’s case the way Dinah was, and confident he would be found guilty the way Dinah was… well… they might want to try and reframe the verdict.

It’s strange though… why not just acknowledge that there were obvious credibility problems with the prosecution’s key witnesses?

Supporting someone who wanted to show the world that they weren’t shot because they terrorized someone via the threatening and terrorizing of others must be hard.

[MHM]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@BigMama1

It shouldn’t be. That precisely why LK said she got nowhere with her SS complaint until she mentioned there were minors on the property.

The national sport governing body (USEF in this case) is supposed to deal with issues of adult bullying, abuse, etc.

That’s right! LK herself said that minors needed to be part of a SafeSport case for it to be taken seriously and prioritized.

I would think the exception would be an adult who has weaponized safe sport, since that is likely to take up safe sport resources down the road (when that person does it again) that could better be used to help minors.

I would also think safe sport would want to make it crystal clear that people cannot get away with weaponizing it, in order to keep their credibility intact for all the legitimate cases.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@MHM

I would think the exception would be an adult who has weaponized safe sport, since that is likely to take up safe sport resources down the road (when that person does it again) that could better be used to help minors.

I would also think safe sport would want to make it crystal clear that people cannot get away with weaponizing it, in order to keep their credibility intact for all the legitimate cases.

Agreed. If nothing else, it would be nice to have clarity on the SafeSport procedures when it comes to investigation of malicious and false reports. Right now, people are aware it part of the code that filing malicious and false reports can result in sanctions… but… there is a lack of clarity concerning how the investigation process for these issues works.

It does seem like this case is an important one for SafeSport to thoroughly investigate when it comes to the potential issue of malicious and false reporting.

[Fat_Dinah]

I am parsing this not because you are wrong, Big Mama. There is no obvious answer because this will set a precedent for SafeSport vs. criminal cases.
Does a not guilty verdict cancel SafeSport - even if SafeSport has brought brought bans before and even without criminal charges?
Is a not guilty by insanity or self defence to be treated differently than a straight not guilty?I
What if a case ends in A mistrial and isn’t retried? No acquittal or conviction.
A decision on Barisone will be cited if other criminal cases are not a clear guilty or not guilty.

[RND]

@Knights_Mom

It’s old. Give it up.

That you decide to try to stop a discussion that has nothing to do with you by chiming in further to tell me to stop is absurd in a way you probably won’t get, but that just makes it even more amusing. Thanks for the laugh.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Why would it be a problem if a coach was tried in a criminal proceeding, and found by a jury to be not guilty by reason of self defense?

They shouldn’t be banned from sport if they had to defend themselves from a dangerous student who threatened their life, and if a full fledged criminal investigation took place, and they were legitimately found by a jury to be not guilty.

And again… it’s INCREDIBLY unlikely another case will arise, that actually is tied to a SafeSport issue, but simultaneously involves a criminal matter that ends with a trial and a jury finding the defendant was not guilty by reason of insanity. There’s no practical point worrying about a SafeSport precedent with respect to that issue.

[ladyj79]

I suppose when a self defense case comes up, that will be different. That isn’t the Barisone case or the jury finding.

[Knights_Mom]

@RND

@Knights_Mom

It’s old. Give it up.

That you decide to try to stop a discussion that has nothing to do with you by chiming in further to tell me to stop is absurd in a way you probably won’t get, but that just makes it even more amusing. Thanks for the laugh.

It’s as if you don’t realize that you’re being ineffective. I was simply trying to counsel you to use a more effective argument for your debate items.

Like reality.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@ladyj79

I suppose when a self defense case comes up, that will be different. That isn’t the Barisone case or the jury finding.

True. Whether or not MB is ever reinstated will first and foremost depend upon how he responds to his treatment, and if the judge rules that he can transition to a less restrictive environment at some point. And that all remains to be seen. It will be a long road.

The big issue right now with the Barisone case clearly revolves around a potential malicious and false reporting situation involving LK, and whatever was reported about MHGs children.

Hopefully they investigate it, and put the entire issue to rest, one way or another.

[RND]

@Knights_Mom

It’s as if you don’t realize that you’re being ineffective. I was simply trying to counsel you to use a more effective argument for your debate items.

Like reality.

FFS what is wrong with you and your buddies? This is the second time today that I have posted something in a benign manner and both posts were met with snark, and now on the second one you have to add your own snark when it had absolutely nothing to do with you. Do you all really expect to treat people that way and not get it right back?

The last thing I have any interest in is your “counsel” - unlike your butt kissing buddies, I’m not even a little bit impressed by you. That you think the advice to “give it up” is a debate strategy says it all.

I don’t use the ignore feature here, so try to egg me on all you want but I’m done replying to you. You’re an absolute waste of time.

[Knights_Mom]

@RND

@Knights_Mom

It’s as if you don’t realize that you’re being ineffective. I was simply trying to counsel you to use a more effective argument for your debate items.

Like reality.

FFS what is wrong with you and your buddies? This is the second time today that I have posted something in a benign manner and both posts were met with snark, and now on the second one you have to add your own snark when it had absolutely nothing to do with you. Do you all really expect to treat people that way and not get it right back?

The last thing I have any interest in is your “counsel” - unlike your butt kissing buddies, I’m not even a little bit impressed by you. That you think the advice to “give it up” is a debate strategy says it all.

I don’t use the ignore feature here, so try to egg me on all you want but I’m done replying to you. You’re an absolute waste of time.

[ladyj79]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

The big issue right now with the Barisone case clearly revolves around a potential malicious and false reporting situation involving LK, and whatever was reported about MHGs children.

See, I don’t agree with that. I think the big issue will be whether a mentally unstable trainer who shot his client is reinstated into a private club with a really bad habit of overlooking gross misconduct on the part of men people admire.

[MHM]

@ladyj79

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

The big issue right now with the Barisone case clearly revolves around a potential malicious and false reporting situation involving LK, and whatever was reported about MHGs children.

See, I don’t agree with that. I think the big issue will be whether a mentally unstable trainer who shot his client is reinstated into a private club with a really bad habit of overlooking gross misconduct on the part of men people admire.

Well, MB is still likely to be out of circulation for quite some time.

LK could go to a horse show and identify her next “target” (her term) tomorrow.