Salary as a Barn Manager

Trying to get a feel for whether or not this could be a good situation. I have worked a few different Barn Manager positions but none quite like this.

It is a barn manager position working 5 days a week.
2200 a month as an independent contractor.
2 horses free of board
Free living in a house on the property (utilities not included)
Managing a barn of 30-40 horses.
All feeding and cleaning is done by other staff.
It is a private facility with no clients.
They run a small quality breeding program with some young project horses.

What do you guys think?

I would say that is a hell of a deal …well it would be in my area!

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;7767834]
I would say that is a hell of a deal …well it would be in my area![/QUOTE]

My thoughts as well!

Very happy to hear…I am only nervous because I have never worked as an independent contractor.

I’m curious about the “independent contractor” part. I’ve never encountered that phrasing in a barn manager position. I don’t entirely understand why they would phrase it that way, unless they are trying to get around workman’s comp, liability insurance, healthcare, or taxes…

Otherwise, that sounds like a heck of a deal. If I had a deal like that, I probably would still be managing barns!!!

I would assume that would be the case…The amount of money I would have to put aside for taxes does take away from the salary quite a bit also

The independent contractor part sounds like they want to get around the problems of workman’s comp and salary obligations. Because they are paying you what sounds like a good wage especially if you include the value of housing yourself and two horses, their motivation may be to simply avoid paperwork, who knows. I was reading up on this a few weeks ago and TO ME, it sounds like they have no leg to stand on as far as you being an employee vs. independent contractor. You will be an employee if it is ever investigated by the Powers that Be. That may never be an issue if it never comes to light. Just don’t get injured, and remember that the value of your housing and horse board may be considered income by the IRS.

From your point of view, if you decide to go along with the independent contractor fiction, you will need to do all of those things an independent contractor is required to do, such as get a business license, buy your own health insurance, and pay your own quarterly taxes, Social Security and whatever else. Maybe talk to an accountant?

The definition of employee may vary from state to state. Here is one from the state of New York as an example. (The abbreviation WCL stands for Worker’s Compensation Law):
http://www.wcb.ny.gov/content/main/Employers/Coverage_wc/emp_empDefinition.jsp

The factors that are considered to determine whether an individual is an employee within the meaning of the WCL and thus must be provided with workers’ compensation insurance coverage by the employer include:

Right to Control- The degree of direction and control a person or organization exercises over someone they contract with to perform a task is always a central issue in determining an employer-employee relationship. A person or organization controlling the manner in which the work is to be performed indicates that the task is being performed by an employee. If the person doing the labor controls the time and manner in which the work is to be done this may indicate that the task is being done by an independent contractor. If an individual is truly independent, the individual generally works under his/her own operating permit, contract or authority.

Character of Work Is the Same as Employer- Work being done that is consistent with the primary work performed by the hiring business indicates that the labor is being done by an employee. Work done by a person that is different than the primary work of the hiring business may indicate the task is being performed by an independent contractor. (For example, someone installing shingles for a roofer is generally considered the employee of that roofer. Conversely, a plumber hired on a one time basis to fix a broken pipe for a retail store owner is generally considered an independent contractor,)

Method of Payment- Employees tend to be paid wages on an hourly, daily. weekly, or monthly basis. Naturally, employment is indicated if the hiring business withholds taxes and/or provides other employee benefits (Unemployment Insurance, health insurance, pensions, FICA, etc.) Whether the labor is paid using a W2 or 1099 Form for tax purposes does not matter in determining an employer/employee relationship for workers’ compensation purposes. A business paying cash to an individual for services usually indicates that the individual is an employee. Payment made for performance of the task as a whole may indicate the task is being done by an independent contractor.

Furnishing Equipment/Materials- A business providing the equipment and/or materials used by people in performing the work tends to indicate an employer-employee relationship.

Right to Hire/Fire- A business retaining the authority to hire and fire the individuals performing the work indicates an employee is performing the work. An independent contractor retains a degree of control over the time when the work is to be accomplished and is not subject to be discharged by the hiring entity because of the method he chooses to use in performing the work. Naturally, an independent contractor’s services may be terminated if the services rendered do not meet contractual requirements,)

All factors may be considered and no one factor alone determines whether a person will be considered an employee under the WCL.

yeah - it would depend on the part of the country etc. Having housing provided is a very nice perk!

My husband has worked as an independent contractor (because like others pointed out - company wanted to dodge employment and benefit laws).

Factor in setting aside one third of your income for taxes.

Get a quote for health insurance - at that pay scale, you may not qualify for subsidies, and you could be looking at a hefty premium.

$2,200 a month sounds great, but not so great if you end up paying $650 in taxes, and $400 in health care -leaving 1,150 a month to live off of.

[edited to add - Peteypie is absolutely right. “contract work” really doesn’t pertain to working at the same place every day, using their equipment etc. But employers “contract” all the time, illegally, to avoid obligations they would have to an employee]

Don’t forget that your housing and board might be counted as “income” in figuring out your taxes. It sounds reasonable, but I would prefer to at least get some health insurance premiums reimbursement out of the deal as well. Also being an independent contractor usually means no paid time off. That itself can really wear on you if you ever want to take vacation, enjoy a holiday, or take a sick day. Ask me how I know.

In Virginia, West Virginia or Maryland, I never had to get a business license as an independent contractor. You just have to file the appropriate 1099 federal & state tax forms, and, of course, pay the taxes, and health care.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Forms-and-Associated-Taxes-for-Independent-Contractors

^^^ Oh yeah, that too! No paid vacation, no paid sick leave. Get a horrible flu and can’t work? Well hopefully you saved enough to cover a week without pay :frowning:

Want to take a few days off? Again… no pay.

Get “let go” - no unemployment insurance…

Honestly - contract work SUCKS. Its only worth it if you are getting “over paid”.

Appreciate all of the advice… I really should have done a bit more research before agreeing to the job. I am younger and do not have that many expenses but can not find much of a leg to stand on to have this position be called an independent contractor position. Not quite sure how to handle it from here.

Honestly, it’s a very generous package. Salary plus housing plus board for two horses - that’s not all that common a combination and, depending on where you are located and the relevant cost of living, might be the equivalent of double your salary in terms of total benefit to you. I don’t know that you’re going to do better as your average barn manager…and it’s pretty easy to do worse. Further, while there are some operations who cover health insurance for all barn employees, I think the independent contractor model is, rightly or wrongly, far more common.

Whether it’s a good package for you, however, is a different question. Some folks do fine figuring out their own health insurance and paying both sides of their own Social Security; others don’t. If I were in your shoes I’d run the numbers and see what kind of salary as an employee without the free housing and free board I would have to have to be able to live a comparable lifestyle, and then see if jobs paying that in my area were available and compatible with my skills/experience. Look at your options and make a choice that makes the best sense to you.

I live in central California. There is a high cost of living and free housing and free board for 2 (of my 3) horses would take care of a large amount of my monthly costs. What would the repercussions of working as an independent contractor if (in my opinion) you really should be counted as an employee be?

Well - I am certainly not an attorney - repercussions?

There could be some to the employer - they may end up having to pay penalties and back pay. Might have to end up paying back overtime if your position doesn’t qualify for “salaried” pay.

For you - like others have said, the State and Fed might say that housing and board are part of your compensation package - and that you have to pay taxes on that value. Lets say the free rent is equal to $1,200 a month, and the free board on two horses another $400 - that is an additional $1,600 a month which you would be asked to “pay taxes on” - ie, cough up a third of it.

I see you are in my same state! Good news is at this pay scale, you WOULD qualify for healthcare reimbursement. Your premiums (assuming 1987 is your birth year :wink: ) will range from $80 to $375 a month depending on what type of plan you select.

Taxes - they are going to suck. If you have no mortgage, no dependents, etc, you can look at forking over at least 30% to 35% once you add the State and Fed taxes (been there - doing that!).

[QUOTE=Appsolute;7768158]
Well - I am certainly not an attorney - repercussions?

There could be some to the employer - they may end up having to pay penalties and back pay. Might have to end up paying back overtime if your position doesn’t qualify for “salaried” pay.

For you - like others have said, the State and Fed might say that housing and board are part of your compensation package - and that you have to pay taxes on that value. Lets say the free rent is equal to $1,200 a month, and the free board on two horses another $400 - that is an additional $1,600 a month which you would be asked to “pay taxes on” - ie, cough up a third of it.

I see you are in my same state! Good news is at this pay scale, you WOULD qualify for healthcare reimbursement. Your premiums (assuming 1987 is your birth year :wink: ) will range from $80 to $375 a month depending on what type of plan you select.

Taxes - they are going to suck. If you have no mortgage, no dependents, etc, you can look at forking over at least 30% to 35% once you add the State and Fed taxes (been there - doing that!).[/QUOTE]

Ya the way I look at it I will be withholding around 650 for taxes and estimated $100 for insurance.

[QUOTE=HJ1987;7768189]
Ya the way I look at it I will be withholding around 650 for taxes and estimated $100 for insurance.[/QUOTE]

Remember what has been said above. Your housing and 2 stalls can (and likely will as an independent contractor) be considered income too.

2200 + 1200 (housing) + 1000 (board for 2 horses at $500/month) =
4200 per month as your total compensation package as far as the IRS is concerned

4200/3 (33% to be safe since you could be closer to 35%) is $1400. THAT is what you should be setting aside monthly for taxes at the end of the year. Could you ignore that as part of your compensation when filing taxes? Sure. It’s what a lot of people do. But then just make sure you cross your fingers. :slight_smile:

ETA: It’s a decent package as far as a BM’s salary is concerned. That doesn’t mean it’s a livable income. Only you can decide that.

[QUOTE=Wonders12;7768357]
Remember what has been said above. Your housing and 2 stalls can (and likely will as an independent contractor) be considered income too.

2200 + 1200 (housing) + 1000 (board for 2 horses at $500/month) =
4200 per month as your total compensation package as far as the IRS is concerned

4200/3 (33% to be safe since you could be closer to 35%) is $1400. THAT is what you should be setting aside monthly for taxes at the end of the year. Could you ignore that as part of your compensation when filing taxes? Sure. It’s what a lot of people do. But then just make sure you cross your fingers. :slight_smile:

ETA: It’s a decent package as far as a BM’s salary is concerned. That doesn’t mean it’s a livable income. Only you can decide that.[/QUOTE]

Thank you that helps a lot!

I think there is no way their independent contractor plan is going to fly.

You live on their property, work on their property, at hours they set, using their equipment.

No way is anyone going to buy the “independent contractor” routine if for whatever reason the fit hits the shan.

JMO.

In my state the criteria for independent contractor are things like:

Being paid “by the job,” not by the hour;
Providing your own tools and equipment that you bring on site;
Working hours you set yourself, not set for you by anyone else;
Paying your own taxes via quarterlies, etc. as others above have mentioned.

I’d run it past a local accountant and see if it flies.