Previously all our horses have been rescues or relatively low-end.
I’m in the process of looking for a higher end eventer and curious as to your experiences with the advertised sales price of a horse and the final actual purchase price.
I realize every case is different, but I’d like to get an idea of differences in asking price vs actual purchase price out in the real world.
Thanks for your help.
Depends on a lot of things.
What kind of horse is it? What age & soundness history? How does it vet? How in demand is that sort of horse (size, colour, gender, record). Who do you know? (A horse going into a good program may allow the owner to feel better about lowering the price for the right home). How desperate is the seller? (can relate to what time of year it is).
If the price is stated as negotiable, or best offer (etc.) then you have more wiggle room probably. I consider a first offer of 3/4 of asking price to be pretty low. I usually expect to haggle over approx. 10-15% of purchase price.
Here is advice from a Seller…Don’t go shopping for something unless you have the “Full” asking price…Before you show up to try a horse Ask seller in initial conversation if they are flexible.
It also is important to look at the price range and level of education . The younger untrained or older needing maintenance possibly. The fancy big gorgeous probably not!
Be honest about your price point.
Do not try a horse you can t afford to pay fully for. You are setting yourself and seller up for a disappointment.
I have had Buyers Vet a horse…in their minds they were hoping to find a big enough flaw to drive price down. When horse fully vetted clean they spent a lot on a vetting for a horse they had not a fraction enough to buy. At no time did they ask if I would be negotiable…I wasn t…
[QUOTE=judybigredpony;7734634]
Here is advice from a Seller…Don’t go shopping for something unless you have the “Full” asking price…Before you show up to try a horse Ask seller in initial conversation if they are flexible.
It also is important to look at the price range and level of education . The younger untrained or older needing maintenance possibly. The fancy big gorgeous probably not!
Be honest about your price point.
Do not try a horse you can t afford to pay fully for. You are setting yourself and seller up for a disappointment.
I have had Buyers Vet a horse…in their minds they were hoping to find a big enough flaw to drive price down. When horse fully vetted clean they spent a lot on a vetting for a horse they had not a fraction enough to buy. At no time did they ask if I would be negotiable…I wasn t…[/QUOTE]
Mine was originally advertised on Dreamhorse for $15K for a few months before I even started looking. I had $10K. He (the chestnut) came down to $12K, and the owner had another nice one (the bay) advertised at $15K so I called her up, and asked if she had anything like the two she had on DH, but mb greener for $10K as that was all I had. She offered the chestnut to me for $10K if I liked him so I tried him, loved him, bought him.
So I highly recommend being upfront about your price range. If you don’t have what they want, don’t go tire kicking.
As a seller, I agree that it is important to be upfront if you can’t afford the full asking price on a horse. I take consignments, so I know how much wiggle room the owner has. I know the market for my own stock, too. I don’t want to waste my time or your time showing you a horse that you can’t buy. I’m okay with budgets and I completely understand, but I try to price my horses realistically and I negotiate to a point.
The one thing that I wish buyers would not do is make the “I’ll give the horse a good home” pitch when the money is short. First of all, I don’t sell horses to bad homes. I perform due diligence about where the horse is going and what the horse would be doing. Second, if you have money issues about the horse, then you may have money issues related to care. If I think that might be the case, then I don’t consider the situation “a good home”
It totally depends. I would say a whole lot sell for their advertised price. I’ve typically paid full buying from breeders. Basically. If the horse is priced right, the seller may not budge. I have a fancy youngster for sale. She is priced a touch high for an event horse but not unreasonable. But she is also very marketable to a dressage or show home. Her price is really not negotiable. I’ve also already taken X-rays on her so that I will not be surprised in a PPE. I have others that are a bit tougher to sell. Very nice horses but not as ammy friendly as the other one. With them, if I think the buyer is an extremely good fit, I might reduce their price a bit to be in that buyers budget but I’m not cutting their price much.
I look at a lot of horses, many not exactly in my price range. I am always up front about what I am looking to spend. By keeping in touch with the owners, I bought a horse originally on dreamhorse for 10,000 then reduced to 6,000 at which point I called and said I liked him, but couldn’t afford 6,000 let me know if something changes. A month later, I bought him for 3,000. He ended up going intermediate and being quite a nice horse. I think the issues arise when buyers or sellers aren’t honest about their budget and/or their flexibility. The last two I have sold, I sold for 15% less and 20% less than asking price, but both were quick easy sales the first the day before I officially put the horse on the market. Because I board, there is some real value to me in a quick sale once I decide to sell.
[QUOTE=scubed;7735436]
Because I board, there is some real value to me in a quick sale once I decide to sell.[/QUOTE]
That is a big factor for many. But when the seller owns their own farm costs are different. Still no horse is free to keep. But often a horse will be priced at the price the seller is willing to part. At least that is my case…there are a few that I know will be worth quite a bit more in the near future and I’m willing to gamble by keeping them longer rather than dropping the price for a quick sale—but they have a price tag and will be shown if people are looking. But that is in large part because I have the option of kicking them out in a field should something happen because I own my own farm. There are only a small few of my own horses that do not have a price tag on them. Even Porter has one…but it is damn HIGH 
as I really have no desire to sell him.
Except for the 22 year old Gizmo, all of mine have a price on them. The ones I don’t want to sell are firmly overpriced :yes: The less the horse fits into my plans and program, the more flexible I am on price.
I would not go try a horse unless it was within 10% of my budget. The few times I’ve sold horses, it drove me completely crazy when people came to ride and then asked if I would “free lease” my horse, or offered my 25-50% less than my asking price. It was a huge time waster.
I used to be okay with people coming on their own to try a horse; after the last experience, I would probably only work with someone who came with their trainer. I know that doesn’t always mean they are serious buyers, but it is a step in the right direction.
I remember years ago looking at a horse that was priced at around $12K. I was up front with the seller and told her my top number was $9K. She told me to please come try the horse as she was flexible. I rode the horse and loved it. I offered her $9k and then she told me she was firm on the price. I didn’t ride the horse poorly, so I don’t think she didn’t want me to own it, I think she thought I could come up with the extra $3K if I wanted it badly enough. I didn’t buy it and ended up with a great horse that was within my budget.
I drove 2 hours each way to ride that horse (and had a flat tire on the way home!) and was pissed when she pulled that on me.
If more buyers would be more upfront about their true budget, sales might be easier. I don’t think that there is anything wrong with asking about how negotiable a seller is. If a horse has been listed on the farm’s site or a national site for a while, all the more reason to ask. Ask up front, not after the seller has prepared the horse and you have ridden him.
If the seller isn’t able to meet your price, give them your contact info and ask them to call if they decide to lower the price. A friend of mine got a great price on a nice horse from a TB re-seller when the re-seller was offered a great chance to buy 4 nice horses in a lot from a reputable source at a great price. She needed to move the one my friend bought to fund the purchase.
Sellers, don’t get snarky and take it personally when someone asks about negotiating price. I know that you think the world of your horse and to you he’s the next Mr. Medicott, but to me, this is a business deal and I just want to know if I can possibly acquire your horse a price less than asking. I have no emotion invested him, yet. If you are firm, say so. If the shopper asks you to contact them if they change their mind, don’t imply that you’d NEVER lower the price. You might end up eating crow. Take the contact info and keep it, just in case.
I think one of the issues is that often riders shopping for horses ultimately have two budgets, the “I’d find a horse in this range” budget and the “for the perfect horse, I’d find a way to add a bit” budget.
To further complicate matters, I’ve certainly looked at horses that were in my budget, but that I felt were ultimately overpriced. Its not exactly polite to express that view, so its often easier to ask whether the price is negotiable. As this inquiry would usually come after the initial viewing, it may be incorrectly perceived as a buyer shopping outside their budget/tire kicker.
As breeders, trainers, and young horse developers, we price our horses fairly to start with and expect to get our asking price. We’re more likely to go UP than down - our horses are actively competed and prices increase with experience and level.
Discounts and negotiations are common with older horses, single horses whose owners want a change, and/or horses who show unexpected vetting results.
You’re always welcome to offer though. If the unruly beast stepped on my foot this morning, I might be more amenable to seeing his rump going down the driveway.
My expertise has been mainly in the buying, selling, breeding, breaking and training of TBs for racing. In the last few years we have scaled that back somewhat. Spending more of my time and utilizing more of our farm re-schooling mostly our home breds who have retired from the track and or didn’t show me enough to warrant the expense of sending to the race track and see what happens. Along with horses that are either given and or sent to us to re-home by caring owners. I grew up in what most would call a high end show horse family at one time. My mother did a lot of show horse trading. I have a lot of friends in the sport and show side of horses. My brother in-law is a pretty high profile H/J trainer. My sister is no slouch in the saddle or ring. Other then fox hunters and or steeplechase horses I don’t know the market that well for Eventers, H/J. I rely on others advise when it comes to pricing. But I do know a good horse when I see one or ride one. Regardless of the breed or discipline. Pretty fundamental.
A lot of good advise in this thread. Especially to be prepared to have/give the full asking price. I hate haggling. If I look at a horse that is worth the money I give it. I don’t feel I have to offer say $500 less to feel I am getting a good deal, a fair deal. I know horses I have been very lucky to have made a career of it. I can size of a horse in short order.
You have to in the racing TB side. We have a matter of minutes at times to decide if we are going to give, $10,000 or $100,000 for a yearling. High stakes, high stress.
So it is really quite amusing dealing with $5,000± buyers and what the lengths and hassle they go through. Don’t get me wrong buying a horse and even taking one for free is a major commitment. But I have found a LOT of buyers are really, really unrealistic in their expectations of value for money. Especially when it comes to buying a nice TB. I am not talking about ones fresh off the track. The comment I hear most when people come and look/try our horses is, wow, if TBs were like this one I would have been looking at them a long time ago. My response is, these are not the exception. When properly raised, trained and worked with they can hold their own with any breed.
Horse trading is the second oldest profession. IMO and experience the majority are fair and honest. But we don’t hear a lot about those. We only hear about the nefarious types.
To get a “good deal” and or not missing on a horse that is well worth the money is the same as buying anything. Be well educated. If a buyer does not have a lot of experience they should pay someone who does. I describe our horses exactly as they are. Their exact size, conformation, abilities and any “holes”. IMO every horse that has a price on it is an “asking price”. If it is priced as “firm” and I don’t think the horse is worth the price I won’t make an offer. If I know the price is negotiable but we are “playing is two different ball parks” I won’t make an offer. I know how to do my own PPE and will do so before I make an offer. If I think there maybe something “under the skin” that should be looked at I make the offer pending x-rays. I pretty always make an offer and or agree to the purchase price subject to blood work. Which is taken the same day and or the next. Unless I know the seller.
My major pet peeve is when a buyer calls and asks if I will take less. Drives me crazy. They haven’t laid an eye on the horse let alone put their leg over them. For all they know it could be the deal of the century. I will do pictures and video but have found it is not always fair to the horse, seller and the buyer.
If I have a horse priced at say $15,000 and someone calls and says my budget is around $10,000 are you open to offers. I am always open to reasonable offers. Considering I have heard over and over again I under sold I think my prices are fair. So, I expect the buyer to meet me somewhere in the middle. Or at least be prepared to.
I don’t like my time being wasted and I feel the same about wasting a buyers time. I’ve been on both sides. I tell people the horse may or may not be for you. It is subjective after all but you will not be wasting you time.
Number one complaint of just about all sellers are people not showing up at the expected times, give or take. Or cancelling at the last minute and or hours after the fact. Even worse not calling at all.
I am more apt to give a “good deal” to a “known” trainer, agent in hopes of future business. I do not do side deals and or give kick backs. All of the sales documents must be signed by the principal. Full disclosure is paramount. In most cases I require a purchase and sales agreement that states the purchase price, commissions and conditions of purchase. To bind the contract a deposit is required. The deposit is only refundable if the horse fails the “conditions of purchase”.
The best time to buy a horse, mid to late winter. Especially a long cold one.
Or as Secretariat said in their last paragraph. Still has me chuckling.
Sorry for not being as concise as others. Not my nature. Don’t get off the farm much.
Not to nitpick, but unless I’m missing something, you have given made some pretty contradictory sounding statements. One one hand, you dislike being asked if prices are negotiable. Yet say you are always open to reasonable offers. You then go on to say that you hate having your time wasted. For a buyer that isn’t familiar with you, how are they supposed to know that you are open to reasonable offers unless they ask? And if they don’t ask, how can they avoid wasting your time in the event that a particular horse’s price is firm?
I can appreciate that sellers get frustrated with tire kickers, and those that offer 0-50% of the asking price. But let’s also be realistic - a huge percentage of the horses that are sold do NOT sell for the original advertised price. There are certainly some that have, but most do not.
Backstage I beg to differ…I sell 99.9% of my horses 25-30 a year for full price anywhere from $5000. To $15k and would only negotiate a price if something came up,in PPE.
[QUOTE=Backstage;7737351]
I can appreciate that sellers get frustrated with tire kickers, and those that offer 0-50% of the asking price. But let’s also be realistic - a huge percentage of the horses that are sold do NOT sell for the original advertised price. There are certainly some that have, but most do not.[/QUOTE]
I also really don’t agree…that at least has not been my experience (from buying and selling and knowing what others are selling for). I wouldn’t drop the original advertised price off of many of my horses—unless something unexpected came up on the PPE. Most will have their prices go UP as I have them longer and we put more into them in training and competing. Like I said, often my lower priced horses (5-7500) I KNOW will be worth more in a relatively short time so no, the price really isn’t negotiable. Others are homebreds…and with what I already have invested, they are also NOT going to be dropped in price…the asking price IS the price that I’m willing to sell them at…and not generally open to haggling. Some ARE priced high as I don’t really need to sell them NOW and am willing to put the work into them that makes them worth that price.
My experience is that most DO sell for advertised price and I can think of a few that sell for more. I’m talking about both mid level priced horses (7500K-35K) and higher level horses (60K+). I’ve known several that have sold in six figures and they got their asking price. Only time any of them come down is if something comes up on the PPE. I think it likely is different if you are buying from an individual who doesn’t sell many.
Of the past 8 horses I have bought, I’ve paid asking price for 3 (ranging from $3500-$6500). Interestingly, those three were very recently off the track thoroughbreds while all of the others were not OTTBs.
I paid 2/3 of my horse’s advertised price when I bought him. I was saving money every month and the longer it took, the more I would have (aka I had the money for expenses and unexpected costs.) He was worth quite a bit more than his advertised price just by comparable horses, but was also a hard match. He has a very distinct personality of his own with emotional trauma/damage probably stemming back to his dislike of track life even though he had a good owner/trainer, and a few rides in with each previous person who tried him he made it clear he didn’t want that person in his life. He was actually tried out as a potential team prospect by a Canadian rider but made it clear they were NOT a match. I was nowhere near the rider, but he was better for me each ride. I definitely got a “this horse likes you” discount on him.
I had a price range in mind when I bought my filly and her advertised price was higher - her breeder and I split the difference, and I think we each ended up happy with the price. I would have been willing to pay more and thought maybe I paid a little much because this specific horse just ticked off all my wants in a way few other horses did, but splitting the difference worked well for us.
[QUOTE=Backstage;7737351]
Not to nitpick, but unless I’m missing something, you have given made some pretty contradictory sounding statements. One one hand, you dislike being asked if prices are negotiable. Yet say you are always open to reasonable offers. You then go on to say that you hate having your time wasted. For a buyer that isn’t familiar with you, how are they supposed to know that you are open to reasonable offers unless they ask? And if they don’t ask, how can they avoid wasting your time in the event that a particular horse’s price is firm?
I can appreciate that sellers get frustrated with tire kickers, and those that offer 0-50% of the asking price. But let’s also be realistic - a huge percentage of the horses that are sold do NOT sell for the original advertised price. There are certainly some that have, but most do not.[/QUOTE]
I see what you are saying and fair enough. I wasn’t very clear. Just pounded it out while on lunch break and didn’t put a lot of time into reading for continuity and clarity. I’ll try and explain my thought.
A buyer sees a picture/s and a video and a price of say $15,000. They call and say will you take $6,000 based on a picture and a brief video because they don’t think the horse is worth the asking price. How in the world would they know what the horse is worth without actually getting in the saddle?
If they called and said I like the horse but only have $6,000 would you consider? Totally different IMO. My response would be, I am open to offers but we are way to far apart so I don’t think it is worth you coming. As others have said “be prepared to offer the full asking price” or close to it.
Now, if someone calls on a $15,000 horse and says their budget is $10,000 would you be open to offers? This IMO and experience is totally different. We’re not that far apart. Come and try the horse and we’ll talk. They asked if I would be open to an offer, which tells me even though their budget is $10 but if they really like the horse most likely we might be able to meet in the middle. If I really like the person and feel they are a good fit and they only have $10 in their pocket I might say I want $12,500. I’ll take $10 now and the balance at a mutually agreeable date down the road. If that doesn’t work I thank them for taking the time to come and look.
It is not lost on me that no one needs a horse. Nor, no one is doing me a favor by coming and looking and or writing me a check.
Those of us who have been horse trading for a living can pretty much size up a buyer by they way they handle themselves on the phone and or emails. I am never rude. The person maybe a tire kicker or lack the kind of money needed for a horse of their dreams. But things change and or they may know others that do and will pass on. One should never burn bridges by having an “high and mighty attitude”.
Yes, I would suspect a lot of horses are sold for a lot less then the advertised price. But these kind of horses I have found are generally being offered by amateurs. No disrespect intended to amateurs.
As I said in my post, sport, show, pleasure horses are not my area of expertise. So I am a bit of amateur but I have friends and or connections that know the market very well and I will take a horse to them to evaluate and price. A lot of times I am happy to pay what it is worth to them to market a horse. My main income comes from selling fairly expensive TB racing stock. The vast majority are sold on first look and or at auction. Far less time consuming then selling $5-20,000 sport horses. So, I guess I’m spoiled.
Tire kickers are part of the cost of doing business. It can be frustrating but you never know by and large someone that is a tire kicker today and who down the road may come back and load up a trailer.
Also I don’t think it is out of line if a person who is relatively new to buying horses to look at ones that are over their budget so as to get an idea of the “yardstick”. So as to see if they are being unrealistic as to their expectations of what is “value for money”.
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