Santa Anita- do you think somethings up?

[Where_sMyWhite]

That was a less, IMO, helpful post… 20 what?

Eskenforadrink fractured her RF fetlock during the 3rd race March 2 and the connections decision was to euthanize.

SA had Mick Peterson, director of Ag Equine Programs at University of Kentucky and a racetrack surfaces specialist come in to consult and analyze the main track. Peterson didn’t see any evidence of an issue with the track. The assumption is that there is a potential issue with ‘segregation’ of the material on the main track.

Of the 20

12 fatalities during racing; 7 on the main track and 5 on turf.
8 fatalities during training, one of which was ‘sudden death’ by CHRB (not related to musculoskeletal)
None of the fatalities have occurred on the training track.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/232338/eskenforadrink-20th-equine-fatality-at-santa-anita-meet

[jennywho]

This! I was so angry with Charmer John’s trainer for working him on a day the track was slated to be closed due to safety concerns. Then I looked at the work tab, 121 horses, multiple graded stakes winners and derby dreamers, out of the best barns on the west coast. None of these trainers or riders are going to work their best horses if they don’t feel that the surface is safe. So where does that leave Charmer John? He’s still dead, still one of 20. They can run every test available, but I’m starting to think there won’t be any concrete answers. Damn shame

great response pronzini

@Pronzini

The comment section under Bloodhorse tends to be pretty ignorant. They literally don’t know what they are talking about but, it’s part of the modern scourge where my opinions become my facts, which are repeated over and over again by anonymous people on message boards.

I have a pretty jaundiced eye about some people in racing mainly because their records defy history. That said, anyone who thinks that Hollendorfer and Baffert would work some of their best horses on a “bad” track due to “greed” is just being willfully stubborn. These horses are worth millions of dollars and they are owned by wealthy people chasing history. Those trainers and others like them are perfectly able to stick a big horse on a plane and train somewhere else if they think there is a chance of losing their ticket to a big show because of a bad spot in the track. Insurance–if it exists because many are self insured–in no way will make up for that.

If disaster strikes when there is a lot of national talk about how bad the track is, that’s how you lose clients and no one wants to lose the kind of client who can buy an Instagrand or breed an American Pharaoh. Working their better horses this week was a true mark of faith in the efforts being taken by Santa Anita by people with real skin in the game.

I don’t know why it happened but weather is as good an explanation as any. Like most of life and horses, it’s probably more than one reason. I do think Santa Anita is to be commended for its response though.

[Palm_Beach]

IDK, if I was a trainer, I’d have the heebie jeebies about working and racing any horses on that track at this point. They don’t train, work or race on the turf very often, not sure how many turf days they’ve lost due to weather, but 5 fatalities on the turf seems high to me. I wish the necroscopies would be done and reports issued - I’m sure reports on the earlier fatalities should be finished even with lab testing, maybe they went back and did more testing? I find it strange that the news reports state that necroscopies will be done, but there are no comments about the results. Honestly, if I had any horses under my care at SA, I’d be throwing up with worry.

[snaffle1987]

someone elsewhere pointed out this photo from Santa Anita over the weekend with Edwards Going Left on the inside… Look at the foreleg of the Grey. HOW DEEP IS THAT TRACK??? It’s almost mid-leg on that horse.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/232348/edwards-going-left-digs-in-to-win-tiznow-stakes

[Palm_Beach]

@snaffle1987

someone elsewhere pointed out this photo from Santa Anita over the weekend with Edwards Going Left on the inside… Look at the foreleg of the Grey. HOW DEEP IS THAT TRACK??? It’s almost mid-leg on that horse.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/232348/edwards-going-left-digs-in-to-win-tiznow-stakes

The fetlock joint flexes to the point that the ankle drops way down. You can see it clearly if you google pictures of horses landing after a jump. In the photo you posted, you can see that the horses hoof slid forward just a bit when it hit the ground, which is normal, causing a little bump in the footing as the hoof displaced some of the footing when it hit the ground. It’s also a “good” track, meaning it still has a fair amount of water in it, so there is some splashing going on. Look at the horse on the right and how much mud is all over his chest, legs and belly. The cushion on a normal race track is 4-7 inches. That is NORMAL. Can you also see how they harrowed the track before the race? Harrowing fluffs up the footing. To the educated eye, that track looks NORMAL for the conditions.

[rockonxox]

@snaffle1987

someone elsewhere pointed out this photo from Santa Anita over the weekend with Edwards Going Left on the inside… Look at the foreleg of the Grey. HOW DEEP IS THAT TRACK??? It’s almost mid-leg on that horse.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/232348/edwards-going-left-digs-in-to-win-tiznow-stakes

You can see the video here: https://youtu.be/zTXZccHsqSo Not abnormally deep - photo is taken at an angle that creates a bit of an optical illusion.

[Where_sMyWhite]

RIP Lets Light The Way

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac…at-santa-anita

Filly trained by Ron McAnally.

SA has already (a few days ago) cancelled their March 7 card.

Sure would like to be a fly on the wall during some of the conversations that have to be going on. If I was a trainer at this point, I’d be rethinking sending a horse out on the main track to train…

[Where_sMyWhite]

Dennis Moore has been retained by SA as Track Consultant and will be on-site 3/5 in the afternoon.

He has 46 years of experience including SA Track Superintendent from 2014 to 12/31/18 when he retired. He is currently Track Superintendent at both Del Mar and Los Alamitos. He was also chiefly responsible for providing SA with the "El Segundo sand’ in 2014.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/232381/dennis-moore-returns-to-santa-anita-as-track-consultant

[K_2]

They’ve cancelled racing indefinitely

http://live.drf.com/nuggets/47243-santa-anita-track-cancels-racing-indefinitely

[LaurieB]

@K~2

They’ve cancelled racing indefinitely

http://live.drf.com/nuggets/47243-santa-anita-track-cancels-racing-indefinitely

In addition, the main track and the inner training track have both been closed until further notice.

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/santa-anita-cancels-racing-indefinitely-over-concerns-of-track-surface/

[mintano]

Yes the tracks a factor. But let’s not forget the tapping, joint injections, use of Bisphosphonates and other analgesics that are also major contributing factors. The bad step theory has been mostly disproven…

You’ve got a track thats seen unheard of amounts of rain, bottom claimers are going 6 panels in 1:09. That ridiculous.

Hard track + a number of horses with pre-existing conditions that are being treated even unknowingly with substances that will mask issues and other substances that have recently been found to delay healing and skew recovery timelines is IMO a disaster waiting to happen.

And obviously this disaster is in fact happening…

[Peggy]

There has been a lot of rain since the beginning of the year, with small gaps between storms. The effect on our jumping ring has been long periods where it’s not usable because it rains just about the time, or shortly after, we can use it. It’s more typical to either get not much rain, heavy rain for a day with a long break between storms, or heavy rain for a week straight and then a dry period. Hard to describe, but as a person who has had horses in southern California, and, therefore has been dealing with its mud, for most of the last fifty or so years, this feels different. Maybe it was enough to punch through the base or something?

If it was just drugs, et al., it seems like we wouldn’t be seeing a surge in breakdowns that seems to coincide with the period of usually heavy rain. I pulled up articles that says the deaths occurred over the last two months so that matches the rains.

[snaffle1987]

hold onto your hats folks, its national news now. Scrolling facebook early this morning and MSN and other news outlets have picked up the story. this is the LAST thing racing needed.

[Palm_Beach]

@snaffle1987

hold onto your hats folks, its national news now. Scrolling facebook early this morning and MSN and other news outlets have picked up the story. this is the LAST thing racing needed.

The LAST thing racing needs is blanket condemnations based on pure speculation.

I’m still surprised nothing has been said regarding the necroscopy reports. They should be able to say something - drugs, no drugs, at LEAST put peoples’ mind to rest in that regard. What did they find, what did they not find?

Any trainers have more than one horse break down?

My number one suspicion at the common denominator in these cases is biophosphates, but only an idiot would use them. I just don’t know that maybe a couple years ago when the problems were not as well known, maybe some of the horses were given them (ie, to get a horse through a 2 yo in training sale) and there are still lingering effects.

[Laurierace]

This is the first thing racing needs. This is one of the highest level tracks in the country and they are putting the horse’s welfare ahead of at least one of their most important races on their calendar. If it was all about greed like everyone loves to claim it would be business as usual.

[snaffle1987]

@Laurierace

This is the first thing racing needs. This is one of the highest level tracks in the country and they are putting the horse’s welfare ahead of at least one of their most important races on their calendar. If it was all about greed like everyone loves to claim it would be business as usual.

I’m sorry Laurierace but I wholeheartedly disagree. the public is going to perceive this as inexcusable. The very public that supports racing and the racing industry is trying to regain interest. The fact that they allowed it to reach 21 deaths is enough to make many non-horsie people sick to their stomachs. Just go read the comments on any of the news stories posted on this topic today. Top 5 comments are “ban the sport”.

If you do not care about the public’s opinion of your sport, then you must not care about the long term viability of your business. The lack of public interest is why so many tracks have been bulldozed over. No one wants to go to a track and see 21 horses die gruesome deaths in a matter of 6-8 weeks.

You need to put yourself in the public’s shoes and see how they would perceive this. While those involved in the industry may applaud SA for taking the steps to close the track down (hooray for them, its about time), the very people this sport is trying to hold onto and gain their interest again are quickly going to judge. I am a horse-person through and through and yes, I am judging. this is inexcusable and how anyone can “support” what is going on at SA is sickening to me. It took the deaths of 21 horses to reach this point.

Perhaps someone needs to go re-read @mintano post above because they hit the nail right on the head. Say SA closes down the track and resurfaces the entire thing. Horses come back and we have more breakdowns consecutively like this again… are those in this sport going to chalk this up to the surface and mother nature or are we going to cumulatively agree that there may be a much larger underlying issue at hand here and the root of it is in the barns, the breeding sheds, the vet clinics, the tack rooms etc.

[Palm_Beach]

@snaffle1987

Say SA closes down the track and resurfaces the entire thing. Horses come back and we have more breakdowns consecutively like this again… are those in this sport going to chalk this up to the surface and mother nature or are we going to cumulatively agree that there may be a much larger underlying issue at hand here and the root of it is in the barns, the breeding sheds, the vet clinics, the tack rooms etc.

If the bolded part is true, then why are horses breaking down this frequently ONLY at Santa Anita? If your statement is true, horses would be breaking down at the same rate at multiple tracks.

I think there are at least two separate conditions that are contributing to the breakdowns. One is going to be horse management related, and the other is more than likely the weather. Remember, there have been 5 turf fatalities, which I feel is a high number. People are calling for the dirt track to be fixed, but what about the turf??? If the dirt is to blame, then why are horses also breaking down on the turf?

At this point, the only common denominator IS the weather. The dirt and the turf got the same amount of rain.

Trainers tend to use the same medication regime consistently throughout the barn. If drugs are contributory, the same trainer will have multiple breakdowns.

[TheMoo]

@snaffle1987 how can you disagree with what laurierace said? They put horse welfare before the big races and a points race for the KD? Isn’t that what the public wants? Horse welfare to come first?

To those that have more knowledge than myself, how is this going to impact the derby field?

[snaffle1987]

@TheMoo

@snaffle1987 how can you disagree with what laurierace said? They put horse welfare before the big races and a points race for the KD? Isn’t that what the public wants? Horse welfare to come first?

To those that have more knowledge than myself, how is this going to impact the derby field?

do you honestly think the public thinks that racing trainers and industry folks are putting horse welfare first after 21 horses have died in 6-8 weeks and they continued to send horses to the track everyday up until yesterday? Again, you all need to put yourself in the public’s shoes, take off the horse-person hat.

As a horse person, yes I applaud them for doing it. But I also think it is long overdue. If you think that the public believes this was for the welfare of the equine athletes after 21 deaths, then you seriously need to go read through the comment field on some of the news articles. That will give you a broad eye view of public perception after something like this happens. and no, it is absolutely not good for racing from a fanbase perspective, gaining fanbase, gaining bettors, keeping tracks alive: all of this depends on the publics support.

It’s good for racing from a horse person perspective, an owner or trainer who wants to see the higher ups take a stance. Yes, it is good from that angle.

[beowulf]

Pure speculation - but wondering if any of these horses, had similar medications (legal meds - not insinuating something nefarious!) - are any of them linked to being involved in the CA fires (and wondering if any of them had similar meds during treatment)? Thinking of how some meds (like OSPHOS) can be detrimental long term…

I know for a fact the best of the best are looking into this. Hoping they get answers ASAP and so sorry for all the connections and their losses.