have you not seen the statistics for Saratoga the last few years? And that track is only open for a very short period boutique meet. And nothing has been done there. I believe 8 deaths and 2 injuries in 2017 within a 2 month period. 4 others pulled up and vanned off.
13 deaths at the track in 2018. I don’t have time to go through and sift all the data
21 deaths in 2017 during their meet.
15 deaths+ in 2016. many within a day of each other. they had 8 deaths in the first 7-8 days of August that year.
I don’t read the comments at the end of articles and I sure as heck wouldn’t use them as evidence of wrong doing by Santa Anita or the trainers. Catering to public perception is a good thing at times, but not educating while doing so is even worse. I refuse to take my horse-person hat off for that reason. As a horse person you should be helping educate the masses, not agreeing with their ignorant comments and using them as evidence to what the problem areas are at Santa Anita.
you are misreading my post or intentionally thinking you want to hear something different. I am not saying that the comment section of news articles should evidence for wrongdoing by SA or trainers. I am saying that these comment sections will give you a pretty darn good idea what the public perception is after 21 horses die in 6 weeks. The entire racing industry survives because of fanbases and bettors. without them, every track would be bulldozed. So if you don’t care about what the public perception is when something like this happens, then as a trainer or an owner or a breeder you must not truly care about the viability of your business. racetracks exist because of the betting public. without them it all caves from the ground up.
as a horse person I can agree that 21 deaths is downright sickening. and I am not in the wrong for doing so. How do you go out and educate when trainers are willingly sending horses to this track everyday regardless? I have a hard time “educating” when the full story is unknown and I refuse to back up the industry when 21 horses die and trainers are arguing to keep the track open. there is both good and bad here and I cant support the industry when I know not all of it is good.
Perhaps I would have felt differently if the trainers refused to enter their horses or train them; if they had all banded together and held a stance. But they didn’t, and they argued when SA managers wanted to close the track for review initially. Yes, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth and because they argued and SA obliged, one more died that day
Of the main track fatalities, one was due to sudden death, not catastrophic injury.
No fatalities have occurred on the training track.
California Thoroughbred Trainers (president Jim Cassidy) is working to get the training track open for gallops during the weekend. I suspect the public doesn’t know/care/remember that, while cancelling racing isn’t a bad idea, there racing fit animals involved that still need care and exercise.
I agree with the decision to cancel. but I’d also be interested in what SA’s bar will be to re-start racing?
Sounds like the SA Handicap, Frank E Kilroe Mile and San Felipe Stakes (key KD prep) will be rescheduled.
CHRB is in agreement with the decision to cancel racing.
Los Al has about 300-350 stalls short term for shippers in and training.
move it all to del mar or Los Al. they could move all of SA upcoming big races too. do it now so the horses have time to move and/or settle and resume training
@snaffle1987 If one needs to read the comments section of an article to know 21 deaths is sickening to the public than I don’t know what to tell you.
Yes the deaths are horrible. I really do not know any person who thinks otherwise. And yes it is a business which is why there is a balancing act which factored into the decision making process. If people don’t realize that, then again, I do not know how to help them. I guess it’s easier to throw shade and condemn an industry one is not involved in, then to use critic thinking skills.
I wasn’t talking about educating the trainers. I was talking about educating the public. Although if you’d like to say your piece to the connections who lost horses because you know better, by all means.
Should the track have closed sooner? Probably. However hindsight is 20/20.
Is this suggestion based in reality? (just pick 'em all up and move 'em - not as easy as that sounds).
Los Alamitos only has 300-350 stalls available in 24 hours. They could put up temp stalls in the parking lot but that would take time. Many don’t like Los Al for racing as the turns are tight.
Del Mar? That is not a year round training track and they host other events throughout the year. The racing surface may not be ready for horses. After the fire that impacted San Luis Rey, TBs were moved to Del Mar. The track was relatively easy to re-condition as the fall meet hadn’t been that far in the past.
I suspect San Luis Rey will be another potential candidate to move horses to.
i don’t even read the comments. I know my personal opinion of what’s been happening. I don’t need to read what uninformed members of the public think. :sigh:
I get that this was a tough decision for all the stake holders… the track (Stronach), trainers, jockeys, owners. Many moving parts that would be/will be impacted by cancelling racing (even the back stretch workers whose horses may be moved to a different facility). Horses in training from the $10k claimer up to graded stakes horses.
American Pharoah’s little sister, Chasing Yesterday was supposed to make her 3yo debut in the Santa Ysabel Stakes G3 on Saturday.
As I said earlier, I would agree it should be done and maybe earlier. Now that this decision is make, will be interesting to see what happens, both track surface as well as all the other parties involved.
Ron McAnally was Lets Light The Way’s trainer (his wife was her owner). I really believe that he thought he was making the right decision in sending this filly to the track yesterday. No doubt in my mind that he expected the track to train fine and she’d come safely back to the barn. The jock that worked her probably felt the same way. 168 other horses logged timed and returned back to their barns.
Read the bold. Unfortunately, you need to repeatedly be told to do some research before pointing your finger. No one will take your opinion with any amount of credibility because, AS YOU ADMIT, you “don’t have time to go through and sift all the data.”
People who are truly concerned about racing and are viewing the issues with an experienced and educated eye will take the time to go through and sift all the data. We have it right online, open to the public.
"The EID statistics are based on injuries that resulted in fatalities within 72 hours from the date of the race. The statistics are for official Thoroughbred races only and exclude steeplechase races. Summary statistics for the EID are subject to change due to a number of considerations, including reporting timeliness.
Since March 2012, racetracks have been able to voluntarily publish their statistics from the EID in the Safety Initiatives section of The Jockey Club website. There are 25 tracks that self-reported during 2017 and their aggregate rate was 1.46.
The list of racetracks participating in the Equine Injury Database and detailed statistics from those tracks that voluntarily publish their results can be found at jockeyclub.com/default.asp?section=Advocacy&area=11.
Throughout the course of 2018, racetracks accounting for approximately 97% of flat racing days are expected to contribute data to the EID.
The Equine Injury Database, conceived at the Grayson-Jockey Club Research Foundation’s first Welfare and Safety of the Racehorse Summit, was launched by The Jockey Club in July 2008 and seeks to identify the frequencies, types, and outcomes of racing injuries using a standardized format that generates valid statistics, identifies markers for horses at increased risk of injury, and serves as a data source for research directed at improving safety and preventing injuries."
The 2018 data is not out. I predict an uptick in fatalities, mainly due to an increased number of days and starts on off tracks.
@snaffle1987 where are you getting your Saratoga statistics? I checked the NYRA database and you numbers are way way off. You do know that Saratoga also has a separate harness track, right? And there are occasionally deaths from non racing or training issues such as colic that are logged, right? If you are going to spout off, be correct. You are quickly and consistently proving yourself to be unreliable in the information you use to form your opinions.
Spoke with a friend yesterday. Former jockey, raced SA many times. The guess: cup holes. If I understand that correctly, it’s a sub-surface issue that is caused by use combined with the rain. If a horse steps in one at speed - it can cause the kind of damage that is being reported.
It is currently pouring here in SoCal. Predictions are more going all the way into next week. Burn areas are being evacuated again. I don’t know if SA is going to take the track down all the way into the sub-surface or if their experts think that is necessary. Cup-holes was a guess.
Necropsies take a long time. I’m always surprised by how long autopsies take as well.
Those that want to end horse racing are using this issue to push that agenda. Many of those same people want to end any form of competition involving horses. I’m not a big, horse-racing fan. I do watch the Triple Crown. I recognize that my knowledge of racing is el zippo. I do wish they’d stop racing two-year-olds. That’s my thought on any kind of reform.
I do hope that they figure out what is causing this. Meanwhile, it’s pouring here in SoCal.
Necropsies and autopsies often take a ‘long time’ due to having to wait for toxicology testing and reports. The gross necropsy/autopsy doesn’t usually take long.
Even though statistically the rate of breakdowns of 2yo is less than 3yo?
SA cancelled March 7 racing, IIRC, last Saturday based on the weather forecast.
You are right, they needed a time machine to go back and stop racing earlier before the number got this high. Because that is a thing. Your comment is so nonsensical I don’t even know how to respond so I will not.
My crime novel brain is wondering if something did turn up in the necroscopies, and prompted a criminal investigation, which is why the results are not being referenced.
Never heard the term “cup holes” but IMO it sounds like a possible explanation. I know enough about footing/surfaces to be dangerous, but I do know that there is a sub base and base layer and a surface footing The base is the part from which the horse generates is power and the top part is cushioning and traction.
Materials vary but given the rains and an occasional tremor, its not hard to imagine that the base layers could be disrupted in some way.
I applaud the decision personally and hope they can get something figured out. The thing that did strike me as odd is the fact that there were no fatalities from the training track. So that raises the question as to why- is there something different in the construction? Is it that the horses are doing slower work, jogging or whatever on that track? Less general traffic? Etc.
I interpret cup holes as what we call punching through the base. Which is why many arenas in Southern California are closed when it’s too wet above the base.
